Has Political Correctness Gone too Far?

[New Zepuha]

Yes. There should be no limiter on how you speak or express yourself. If you are offended by a department stores decision to put up racist signs or not serve a certain race, the simple solution is to not shop there and educate others on the matter. Using any sort of government coercion is wrong on every level. You can be PC all you want, but as soon as that impedes someone else's right to free speech, you are in the wrong.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Emerald I agreed with your points, but you could try to be a bit more diplomatic about it.

I absolutely could, however I'm under no obligation to.

I avoid arguing with constructionists, it's pointless and only ends with pedantic variation.

[Hladgos]

Anytime I ever had to talk about people I'd keep in gender neutral, but the differences now were gender specific positions like policeman and such. I always just used officer or whatever anyway since I figured it could go either way.

Nine times out of ten, I could get away with that. However, some commanders would end up getting their panties in a bunch and refuse to have anything referencing gender as far as pronouns go. Which means I can't detail how someone with a vagina has to do the security check on someone with a vagina, without specifically saying "The Vagina-bearing Airman". It got comically obtuse at times.

Well, the military does like its names and such, but that does seem pretty stupid to me. However, doesn't appear to be that big of an issue, more an annoyance.

[Ugatoo]

What you're saying is akin to participating in a debate and ignoring your opponent. This is not how ideas are tested. This is not how society grows.

You honestly think I can change your mind? Lel.

I can't change your mind, you have to come to that conclusion yourself. As such I am not obligated to test your ideas for the greater good.

See I've stated my position as being pro-free speech/expression my entire argument is what does fan service bring to a medium or what does the medium lose by the removal of the fan service. As far as I can tell the answer is a resounding NOTHING. This position is not unmovable if you can provide any sort of proof that the removal causes damage or that inclusion has greater benefits I'll concede my point.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Nine times out of ten, I could get away with that. However, some commanders would end up getting their panties in a bunch and refuse to have anything referencing gender as far as pronouns go. Which means I can't detail how someone with a vagina has to do the security check on someone with a vagina, without specifically saying "The Vagina-bearing Airman". It got comically obtuse at times.

Well, the military does like its names and such, but that does seem pretty stupid to me. However, doesn't appear to be that big of an issue, more an annoyance.

Oh, I wouldn't call it a "societal dilemma", no. It's just an example of how something well-meaning can end up causing no end of frustration for people when humans become involved.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

You honestly think I can change your mind? Lel.

I can't change your mind, you have to come to that conclusion yourself. As such I am not obligated to test your ideas for the greater good.

See I've stated my position as being pro-free speech/expression my entire argument is what does fan service bring to a medium or what does the medium lose by the removal of the fan service. As far as I can tell the answer is a resounding NOTHING. This position is not unmovable if you can provide any sort of proof that the removal causes damage or that inclusion has greater benefits I'll concede my point.

I don't think you understand the purpose of "fan service".

[The Emerald Dawn]

See I've stated my position as being pro-free speech/expression my entire argument is what does fan service bring to a medium or what does the medium lose by the removal of the fan service. As far as I can tell the answer is a resounding NOTHING. This position is not unmovable if you can provide any sort of proof that the removal causes damage or that inclusion has greater benefits I'll concede my point.

I don't think you understand the purpose of "fan service".

I ascertained that much when I asked if he'd ever frequented an art gallery. Explaining the whole point of something that's in the eye of the beholder is kind of like explaining why there is air.

[Ugatoo]

See I've stated my position as being pro-free speech/expression my entire argument is what does fan service bring to a medium or what does the medium lose by the removal of the fan service. As far as I can tell the answer is a resounding NOTHING. This position is not unmovable if you can provide any sort of proof that the removal causes damage or that inclusion has greater benefits I'll concede my point.

I don't think you understand the purpose of "fan service".

Considering that we live in a time where most people could simply google Cammy rule 34 and get results that far exceed the crotch shot in the game, no I don't understand the purpose.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I don't think you understand the purpose of "fan service".

Considering that we live in a time where most people could simply google Cammy rule 34 and get results that far exceed the crotch shot in the game, no I don't understand the purpose.

Look at it as a loyalty reward from your credit card.

Sure, you don't need it to keep using your card the way you frequent, but it's nice to know your credit card lender cares about you as a customer and dont want to lose brand loyalty from you.

[North Calaveras]

SAFE SPACE!!

[Ugatoo]

Considering that we live in a time where most people could simply google Cammy rule 34 and get results that far exceed the crotch shot in the game, no I don't understand the purpose.

Look at it as a loyalty reward from your credit card.

Sure, you don't need it to keep using your card the way you frequent, but it's nice to know your credit card lender cares about you as a customer and dont want to lose brand loyalty from you.

So what about the straight women or gay men who play the game? Do they enjoy it? If a game like Street Fighter needs fanservice to demand brand loyalty then the industry is truly about to crash.

[Tevehas]

I can understand it from a cultural stand point, but at the same time Western culture is a lot more sexually repressed. I personally find Cammy to be very empowering, an attractive strong woman who's comfortable with her body. Sounds great to me personally, but I still don't see what the crotch shot brings to the game or what it loses by being replaced.

That's why I don't think it's a subject of importance. Due to the fact that it has no impact in the game, and doesn't affect development cycle, it's a non issue. The quality of the game is unaffected

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Look at it as a loyalty reward from your credit card.

Sure, you don't need it to keep using your card the way you frequent, but it's nice to know your credit card lender cares about you as a customer and dont want to lose brand loyalty from you.

So what about the straight women or gay men who play the game? Do they enjoy it? If a game like Street Fighter needs fanservice to demand brand loyalty then the industry is truly about to crash.

Ummm... No, you're not getting it yet.

[Ugatoo]

I can understand it from a cultural stand point, but at the same time Western culture is a lot more sexually repressed. I personally find Cammy to be very empowering, an attractive strong woman who's comfortable with her body. Sounds great to me personally, but I still don't see what the crotch shot brings to the game or what it loses by being replaced.

That's why I don't think it's a subject of importance. Due to the fact that it has no impact in the game, and doesn't affect development cycle, it's a non issue. The quality of the game is unaffected

I would disagree there are groups of people who may not enjoy starring at her crotch when they play the game. Keeping it in could lead to lost sales or at the very least not bringing in new people to the game. While this is admittedly a very VERY small point I can't see any on the other side that out weighs it.

[Alvecia]

That's why I don't think it's a subject of importance. Due to the fact that it has no impact in the game, and doesn't affect development cycle, it's a non issue. The quality of the game is unaffected

I would disagree there are groups of people who may not enjoy starring at her crotch when they play the game. Keeping it in could lead to lost sales or at the very least not bringing in new people to the game. While this is admittedly a very VERY small point I can't see any on the other side that out weighs it.

I would argue that the sales made by people attracted to the product by such a thing massively outnumber the amount lost by people put off by such a thing. It seems that the business world and many in the scientific world would agree with my statement

You realise you are essentially saying "Why should fanservice be in a game when you can have the game and the fanservice separately?"
To which I would argue "Why should we have them separately when we can have them all in one."
You may think it has no effect on the game, but many others disagree. It adds an aesthetic element that makes it slightly more enjoyable. It doesn't make a huge difference, but it make up one of many small little things that add character to a game.
If you expand your point out then what's the point in even having a character called Cammy. Why even have male and female characters. Why not just have androgynous silhouettes fighting each other? Why even have stages and backgrounds? It's not like people will be looking at that when playing, it adds nothing to the game, just have a blank featureless background for every stage! /hyperbole
But the point stands. Just because you can't see the appeal, doesn't mean that nobody does.

[The Emerald Dawn]

So what about the straight women or gay men who play the game? Do they enjoy it? If a game like Street Fighter needs fanservice to demand brand loyalty then the industry is truly about to crash.

Ummm... No, you're not getting it yet.

Art. Gallery.

[Ugatoo]

I would disagree there are groups of people who may not enjoy starring at her crotch when they play the game. Keeping it in could lead to lost sales or at the very least not bringing in new people to the game. While this is admittedly a very VERY small point I can't see any on the other side that out weighs it.

I would argue that the sales made by people attracted to the product by such a thing massively outnumber the amount lost by people put off by such a thing. It seems that the business world and many in the scientific world would agree with my statement

You realise you are essentially saying "Why should fanservice be in a game when you can have the game and the fanservice separately?"
To which I would argue "Why should we have them separately when we can have them all in one."
You may think it has no effect on the game, but many others disagree. It adds an aesthetic element that makes it slightly more enjoyable. It doesn't make a huge difference, but it make up one of many small little things that add character to a game.
If you expand your point out then what's the point in even having a character called Cammy. Why even have male and female characters. Why not just have androgynous silhouettes fighting each other? Why even have stages and backgrounds? It's not like people will be looking at that when playing, it adds nothing to the game, just have a blank featureless background for every stage! /hyperbole
But the point stands. Just because you can't see the appeal, doesn't mean that nobody does.

I'm not saying that I don't see the appeal, in fact I said I did. What I'm saying is people aren't buying the game because of the fan service they're buying because it's Street Fighter. There are no legitimate reasons that you need a close up of her crotch. Removing it won't damage the game.

[Ugatoo]

Ummm... No, you're not getting it yet.

Art. Gallery.

How does nudity make the Venus de Milo a better piece of artwork than the Mona Lisa?

[The Emerald Dawn]

Art. Gallery.

How does nudity make the Venus de Milo a better piece of artwork than the Mona Lisa?

I think you need to ask yourself that very question.

Or, perhaps, follow that whole thought process again, but this time turn on your emotional circuitry.

[Ugatoo]

How does nudity make the Venus de Milo a better piece of artwork than the Mona Lisa?

I think you need to ask yourself that very question.

Or, perhaps, follow that whole thought process again, but this time turn on your emotional circuitry.

What's more worrying me is that I'm starting to believe that you only go to art galleries to fap and not to enjoy the art work. At least that's what comparing art to fan service sounds like to me

[The Emerald Dawn]

I think you need to ask yourself that very question.

Or, perhaps, follow that whole thought process again, but this time turn on your emotional circuitry.

What's more worrying me is that I'm starting to believe that you only go to art galleries to fap and not to enjoy the art work. At least that's what comparing art to fan service sounds like to me

Sounds to me like you like the sound of yourself.

[New Intermarium]

No.

Being sensitive to people's feelings is something that is quite reasonable for a society such as ours.

How about OVER sensitive?

[New Intermarium]

Yes I think it's going crazy and changing the human race in a bad way. Also, Free Speech remember?

[Gauthier]

No.

Being sensitive to people's feelings is something that is quite reasonable for a society such as ours.

How about OVER sensitive?

Empathy is for the weak. *nod*

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes I think it's going crazy and changing the human race in a bad way. Also, Free Speech remember?

You mean people realizing they don't have to put up with either my shit or yours is a bad thing?

God forbid they have an opinion of you that's not unbecoming of you.

To quote myself from before:

You can think that political correctness isn't needed and talk whatever the fuck you want.

I do it all the time.

However, I don't try to justify my being an asshole as "PC gone too far". That's just me being an asshole.

Now, if you complain about being called an asshole when you are indeed an asshole, then perhaps your claims of "grow a tough skin" should be reflective of your position instead of theirs?