Are Catholics christians?

[Diopolis]

The bible is not the sole repository of Christian doctrine, nor is it definitive. Your Paul quote, by the way, is emphasizing Christ's human nature(to deny the human nature of Christ is really heresy), and your gospel quote is merely capturing the reality of Mary's exemplary obedience; besides which, she was not yet Queen of Heaven.

Sola Scriptura doesn't mean that the Bible is the only authority, it means that the Bible alone is the highest authority. But there can be lesser authorities.

I'm aware of that. He did say "is not biblical and is not automatically Christian", which kinda implies he thought it is the only authority.
Besides which, I don't believe in Sola Scriptura anyhow.

[Grand Calvert]

Sola Scriptura doesn't mean that the Bible is the only authority, it means that the Bible alone is the highest authority. But there can be lesser authorities.

I'm aware of that. He did say "is not biblical and is not automatically Christian", which kinda implies he thought it is the only authority.
Besides which, I don't believe in Sola Scriptura anyhow.

Okay, I just wasn't sure if you fully understood what it was. My bad.

[Caninope]

Yes, for Chirstianity= Protestantism + Catholicism.

I'll be sure to tell the Eastern Orthodox Communion, the Oriental Orthodox Communion, the Church(es) of the East, the Polish National Catholic Church, the Old Catholics, and the Independent Catholics that they're just not Christians anymore.

[Caninope]

What?

Does this really require an explanation? Popes, 7 sacraments, infallibility and transubstantiation ain't in the bible

But the Catholic church preaches a scriptural basis that was further revealed by divine revelation.

Keep in mind the Catholic Church does not hold to sola scriptura.

[Caninope]

We were just chatting, and then she said, "Catholics aren't even Christian, amirite?"
So this is what I pose to NSG: Are Catholics Christians?

Not by a long shot, neither Catholics nor Protestants are Christians in anything but name. Constantine Orthodox or bust; if you can't go Orthodox, you might as well send your CV to al-Zawahiri, M.D.

Not sure if you're joking, but given that the Orthodox generally don't re-ordain Catholic priests, this post seems pretty silly.

[Diopolis]

Yes, for Chirstianity= Protestantism + Catholicism.

I'll be sure to tell the Eastern Orthodox Communion, the Oriental Orthodox Communion, the Church(es) of the East, the Polish National Catholic Church, the Old Catholics, and the Independent Catholics that they're just not Christians anymore.

To be fair, the latter three groups would argue that they're Catholic, and probably have a pretty good argument. Well, if most of them weren't utterly insane.

[The Archregimancy]

I'll be sure to tell the Eastern Orthodox Communion, the Oriental Orthodox Communion, the Church(es) of the East, the Polish National Catholic Church, the Old Catholics, and the Independent Catholics that they're just not Christians anymore.

To be fair, the latter three groups would argue that they're Catholic, and probably have a pretty good argument.

So would the Orthodox Church

The official name is the Orthodox Catholic Church; the Roman Catholic Church merely consists of heterodox - potentially even heretical - schismatics who've yet to see the error of their ways.

Indeed, all of the four 'ancient' churches that were the immediate byproducts of the Constantinian Imperial Nicene church - the Oriental Orthodox, the Church of the East, the Eastern Orthodox, and the Roman Catholic churches - consider themselves to be the one true big-C Catholic Church.

[Cetacea]

Sola Scriptura doesn't mean that the Bible is the only authority, it means that the Bible alone is the highest authority. But there can be lesser authorities.

I'm aware of that. He did say "is not biblical and is not automatically Christian", which kinda implies he thought it is the only authority.
Besides which, I don't believe in Sola Scriptura anyhow.

I actually advocate Prima scriptura and will accept tradition that does not conflict with the Bible.The only other Authority then is Revelation by the Holy Spirit (sans Magisterium).

anyway when did Mary become a queen standing at the right side of Jesus?

[Gim]

I'm aware of that. He did say "is not biblical and is not automatically Christian", which kinda implies he thought it is the only authority.
Besides which, I don't believe in Sola Scriptura anyhow.

I actually advocate Prima scriptura and will accept tradition that does not conflict with the Bible.The only other Authority then is Revelation by the Holy Spirit (sans Magisterium).

anyway when did Mary become a queen standing at the right side of Jesus?

I thought it was more of standing next to God, but I don't think the Bible actually states God betrothed a virgin.

[Personal Freedom]

To be fair, the latter three groups would argue that they're Catholic, and probably have a pretty good argument.

So would the Orthodox Church

The official name is the Orthodox Catholic Church; the Roman Catholic Church merely consists of heterodox - potentially even heretical - schismatics who've yet to see the error of their ways.

Indeed, all of the four 'ancient' churches that were the immediate byproducts of the Constantinian Imperial Nicene church - the Oriental Orthodox, the Church of the East, the Eastern Orthodox, and the Roman Catholic churches - consider themselves to be the one true big-C Catholic Church.

The Coptic Church is probably the most ancient Christian tradition. They are one good terms with the Catholic Church and don't use the big C.

[The Archregimancy]

So would the Orthodox Church

The official name is the Orthodox Catholic Church; the Roman Catholic Church merely consists of heterodox - potentially even heretical - schismatics who've yet to see the error of their ways.

Indeed, all of the four 'ancient' churches that were the immediate byproducts of the Constantinian Imperial Nicene church - the Oriental Orthodox, the Church of the East, the Eastern Orthodox, and the Roman Catholic churches - consider themselves to be the one true big-C Catholic Church.

The Coptic Church is probably the most ancient Christian tradition. They are one good terms with the Catholic Church and don't use the big C.

Amazingly, almost nothing in those two sentences is true.

Congratulations; that was quite an achievement.

Let's take a moment to deconstruct each of your statements in turn:

1) 'The Coptic Church is probably the most ancient Christian tradition':
There are four churches with a reasonably legitimate claim to having formed part of the 'original' Christian church that achieved official status at Nicaea. As noted above, these are the the Oriental Orthodox Church (which includes the Copts), the Church of the East, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Roman Catholic Church. None of those can realistically claim to be more ancient than the others. In terms of specifics, the Oriental Orthodox Coptic Church is certainly ancient, dating as a separate body from the aftermath of the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD, but it was neither the first of those bodies to break away from the Imperial church (which was the Church of the East, which broke away in the aftermath of the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD) nor was it the first national Christian church (which was the still-extant Armenian Church, founded in c.300 AD).

2) 'They are one good terms with the Catholic Church':
Not particularly. While there has been some ecumenical dialogue between the Copts and Rome, the closest relationship that the Copts have with a Church outside their communion is with the Orthodox Church, as per the 1990 Chambesy Agreement and the subsequent Pastoral Agreement between the Coptic Orthodox and Greek Orthodox Patriarchates of Alexandria.

3) 'don't use the big C':
Not in the formal name of either the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria or the rest of the Oriental Orthodox communion; but you wholly miss the point. Theologically - and indeed liturgically - speaking, each of the four ancient communions consider themselves to be the one true universal Christian Church, and therefore consider themselves to be the Catholic church, even if they're not necessarily all the [Roman] Catholic Church.

[Czechanada]

To be fair, the latter three groups would argue that they're Catholic, and probably have a pretty good argument.

So would the Orthodox Church

The official name is the Orthodox Catholic Church; the Roman Catholic Church merely consists of heterodox - potentially even heretical - schismatics who've yet to see the error of their ways.

Indeed, all of the four 'ancient' churches that were the immediate byproducts of the Constantinian Imperial Nicene church - the Oriental Orthodox, the Church of the East, the Eastern Orthodox, and the Roman Catholic churches - consider themselves to be the one true big-C Catholic Church.

Holy shit.

Holy freaking shit.

Arch just used a smiley.

[Caninope]

I'll be sure to tell the Eastern Orthodox Communion, the Oriental Orthodox Communion, the Church(es) of the East, the Polish National Catholic Church, the Old Catholics, and the Independent Catholics that they're just not Christians anymore.

To be fair, the latter three groups would argue that they're Catholic, and probably have a pretty good argument. Well, if most of them weren't utterly insane.

All of those churches would argue that they are catholic, at least with a little 'C'.

[Personal Freedom]

The Coptic Church is probably the most ancient Christian tradition. They are one good terms with the Catholic Church and don't use the big C.

Amazingly, almost nothing in those two sentences is true.

Congratulations; that was quite an achievement.

Let's take a moment to deconstruct each of your statements in turn:

1) 'The Coptic Church is probably the most ancient Christian tradition':
There are four churches with a reasonably legitimate claim to having formed part of the 'original' Christian church that achieved official status at Nicaea. As noted above, these are the the Oriental Orthodox Church (which includes the Copts), the Church of the East, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Roman Catholic Church. None of those can realistically claim to be more ancient than the others. In terms of specifics, the Oriental Orthodox Coptic Church is certainly ancient, dating as a separate body from the aftermath of the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD, but it was neither the first of those bodies to break away from the Imperial church (which was the Church of the East, which broke away in the aftermath of the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD) nor was it the first national Christian church (which was the still-extant Armenian Church, founded in c.300 AD).

2) 'They are one good terms with the Catholic Church':
Not particularly. While there has been some ecumenical dialogue between the Copts and Rome, the closest relationship that the Copts have with a Church outside their communion is with the Orthodox Church, as per the 1990 Chambesy Agreement and the subsequent Pastoral Agreement between the Coptic Orthodox and Greek Orthodox Patriarchates of Alexandria.

3) 'don't use the big C':
Not in the formal name of either the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria or the rest of the Oriental Orthodox communion; but you wholly miss the point. Theologically - and indeed liturgically - speaking, each of the four ancient communions consider themselves to be the one true universal Christian Church, and therefore consider themselves to be the Catholic church, even if they're not necessarily all the [Roman] Catholic Church.

The two groups have agreed that each other are valid churches. Does this not conflict that?

[Hillary Clinton 2016-2024]

Yes,Catholicism is a branch of Christianity,you obviously need to go back to fifth grade if you don't know why.Ya know what,I'll just explain it to you so you don't have to waste your time.At the year 0 A.D Christianity was founded,it had only one branch,then in 1517 Martin Luther posted his 95 theses,Creating another branch of Christianity,Lutheranism,what was the first branch,you ask?It was Catholicism.

[Gim]

Yes,Catholicism is a branch of Christianity,you obviously need to go back to fifth grade if you don't know why.Ya know what,I'll just explain it to you so you don't have to waste your time.At the year 0 A.D Christianity was founded,it had only one branch,then in 1517 Martin Luther posted his 95 theses,Creating another branch of Christianity,Lutheranism,what was the first branch,you ask?It was Catholicism.

In other words, Protestantism. Lutheranism seems to be a part of Protestantism.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes,Catholicism is a branch of Christianity,you obviously need to go back to fifth grade if you don't know why.Ya know what,I'll just explain it to you so you don't have to waste your time.At the year 0 A.D Christianity was founded,it had only one branch,then in 1517 Martin Luther posted his 95 theses,Creating another branch of Christianity,Lutheranism,what was the first branch,you ask?It was Catholicism.

Wow... this skips so much history.

Not unusual when you're not acquainted with the East.

[Herrebrugh]

What's the justification for all the splendor, glitter and glamour of the Catholic church, anyway? That goes to the Orthodox church as well.

I don't recall Jesus mandating his religious leaders to wear fancy hats... I don't recall Jesus mandating religious leaders, for that matter...

[Caninope]

Yes,Catholicism is a branch of Christianity,you obviously need to go back to fifth grade if you don't know why.Ya know what,I'll just explain it to you so you don't have to waste your time.At the year 0 A.D Christianity was founded,it had only one branch,then in 1517 Martin Luther posted his 95 theses,Creating another branch of Christianity,Lutheranism,what was the first branch,you ask?It was Catholicism.

TIL Armenians don't real.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes,Catholicism is a branch of Christianity,you obviously need to go back to fifth grade if you don't know why.Ya know what,I'll just explain it to you so you don't have to waste your time.At the year 0 A.D Christianity was founded,it had only one branch,then in 1517 Martin Luther posted his 95 theses,Creating another branch of Christianity,Lutheranism,what was the first branch,you ask?It was Catholicism.

TIL Armenians don't real.

Coptics and Assyrians? Nope, fuck'em I say; they can't into Christianity.

[Saiwania]

Catholics are arguably the most Christian because they are the original church that has been around since the first century. The Orthodox and Protestant branches split off with schisms.

[New confederate ramenia]

I don't recall Jesus mandating his religious leaders to wear fancy hats... I don't recall Jesus mandating religious leaders, for that matter...

Jesus himself was a religious leader.

[Gim]

I don't recall Jesus mandating his religious leaders to wear fancy hats... I don't recall Jesus mandating religious leaders, for that matter...

Jesus himself was a religious leader.

Leader of the Leaders, King of the Kings.

[Herrebrugh]

I don't recall Jesus mandating his religious leaders to wear fancy hats... I don't recall Jesus mandating religious leaders, for that matter...

Jesus himself was a religious leader.

Ah, but did he wear fancy hats?

[New confederate ramenia]

Jesus himself was a religious leader.

Ah, but did he wear fancy hats?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_of_thorns