NationStates

Friedensreich wrote:Yes, for Chirstianity= Protestantism + Catholicism.

No love for orthodoxy.

Daburuetchi wrote:

United Marxist Nations wrote:Uh, source?

Whelp I no longer have my Catholic school books and hunted around for an exact source that says no new thought but can't find it. They did squash dissent via censorship and offered no concessions to the Protestants or really anyone who challenged the system.

They didn't really banned all new thought.

They did frown upon thought that challenged the Catholic Church's dogma and doctrines. But that's something you will find in every denomination.

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As for OP's question, yes, Catholics are Christians.

Daburuetchi wrote:

United Marxist Nations wrote:Who are all heretical branches.

How is it not heretical to advocate as the church does that there are seven sacraments when Jesus only underwent confirmation and baptism?

Christ gave us the 4 of the 7 sacraments. Confession, the Eucharist, Holy Orders,and Baptism. Marriage was ordained by God at the Garden.The Anointing of the Sick , which has been observed by the Church at it's beginning. Confirmation was first observed by the Apostles who laid hands on believers so they may receive the Holy Spirit.

United Marxist Nations wrote:

Daburuetchi wrote:
How is it not heretical to advocate as the church does that there are seven sacraments when Jesus only underwent confirmation and baptism?

Because the Church has ecclesiastical jurisdiction.

Jurisdiction which it was never given. Jesus never mandated that there be infallible popes or a rigid hierarchy

United Marxist Nations wrote:

Western Pacific Territories wrote:Catholics were literally the only group of Christians before the Great Split and the Reformation. Case closed.

Lol, no.

Well, that's debatable but Catholics certainly came before Protestants and the Pope is Catholic. They are Christians.

Since they were essentially the first christian church, I would say yes.

Yes.

Next question?

The Jaclean empire wrote:Since they were essentially the first christian church, I would say yes.

What about the apostles' churches?

Rusozak wrote:

Friedensreich wrote:Yes, for Chirstianity= Protestantism + Catholicism.

No love for orthodoxy.

Well the orthodoxy is practically a criminal organization in the post soviet world, I won't be shedding any tears.

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:

United Marxist Nations wrote:IIRC, they also promote salvation through faith alone.

Yep. Got that from the Bible of all places.

The argument against sola fide is also found in the Bible.

Matthew 16:27: "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done."

Matthew 19:16-21: "And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.”

Matthew 24:10-20: (part of the Olivet discourse): "Then many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

I emphasize the last because it is important: Sola fide doctrine allows sin to be virtually ignored. All is justified as long as faith in the power of the Lord and Christ is retained. It ignores mortal sin.

Western Pacific Territories wrote:

United Marxist Nations wrote:Lol, no.

Well, that's debatable but Catholics certainly came before Protestants and the Pope is Catholic. They are Christians.

Orthodoxy predates Catholicism.

Western Pacific Territories wrote:

United Marxist Nations wrote:Lol, no.

Well, that's debatable but Catholics certainly came before Protestants and the Pope is Catholic. They are Christians.

Long before Protestantism.

I'd wager that what we know today as the Catholic Church's beginning would be informally with Constantine the Great. I could be wrong though.

United Marxist Nations wrote:

Western Pacific Territories wrote:Catholics certainly came before Protestants.

Orthodoxy predates Catholicism.

The point is Catholicism was around before Protestantism.

Soldati senza confini wrote:

Western Pacific Territories wrote:Well, that's debatable but Catholics certainly came before Protestants and the Pope is Catholic. They are Christians.

Long before Protestantism.

I'd wager that what we know today as the Catholic Church's beginning would be informally with Constantine the Great. I could be wrong though.

Probably more towards Eastern Orthodoxy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constanti ... ristianity

United Marxist Nations wrote:

Daburuetchi wrote:
How is it not heretical to advocate as the church does that there are seven sacraments when Jesus only underwent confirmation and baptism?

Because the Church has ecclesiastical jurisdiction.

Says who?

Tutukerala wrote:

Daburuetchi wrote:
How is it not heretical to advocate as the church does that there are seven sacraments when Jesus only underwent confirmation and baptism?

Christ gave us the 4 of the 7 sacraments. Confession, the Eucharist, Holy Orders,and Baptism. Marriage was ordained by God at the Garden.The Anointing of the Sick , which has been observed by the Church at it's beginning. Confirmation was first observed by the Apostles who laid hands on believers so they may receive the Holy Spirit.

Except confession came from irish monks and wasn't practiced before the 7th century. Penance which is in the bible ain't the same. The Eucharist sure but not transubstantiation seeing how there's no indication Jesus literally meantyou are eating him.Anointing of the sick was a common practice at the time and the bible doesn't mandate you go around annointing. No to holy orders since Jesus never spoke of a rigid hierarchy.

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:

United Marxist Nations wrote:Because the Church has ecclesiastical jurisdiction.

Says who?

St. Peter.

United Marxist Nations wrote:

Western Pacific Territories wrote:Well, that's debatable but Catholics certainly came before Protestants and the Pope is Catholic. They are Christians.

Orthodoxy predates Catholicism.

Orthodoxy and Catholicism were nearly indistinguishable back then.

The distinction became when the Bishop of Rome wanted to be the supreme authority over scriptures, because apparently they couldn't play fair with the see of Constantinople even with their position of primus inter pares

United Marxist Nations wrote:

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Says who?

St. Peter.

God, in essence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesias ... risdiction

United Marxist Nations wrote:

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Says who?

St. Peter.

Source.

Gim wrote:

United Marxist Nations wrote:St. Peter.

God, in essence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesias ... risdiction

Gim - you think you're wrong, and that Protestantism is heretical? Why are you cool with being a heretic?

They are the original Christians. Arguably they're more christian than Protestants.

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:

United Marxist Nations wrote:St. Peter.

Source.

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter (Petros), and on this rock (petra) I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Matthew 16:13-19

Still does not support popes and infallibly tho. Martin Luther is master race

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:

Gim wrote:
God, in essence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesias ... risdiction

Gim - you think you're wrong, and that Protestantism is heretical? Why are you cool with being a heretic?

You of all people should know that heresy isn't a bad thing.

Pan Asian Amercian Coalition wrote:They are the original Christians. Arguably they're more christian than Protestants.

Just because they were the first Christians does not mean they are "more Christian" than the other, in my opinion.