The General Car Thread.

[Petrolheadia]

The story of a car (owner) thread game is now a separare thread:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=387830

[Petrolheadia]

The story of a car (owner) thread game is now a separare thread:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=387830

OK, it turned into usual F7 shenanigans, so the stories are staying here. Here is a new one:
In 1972, Jane Robertson, the wife of Joe Robertson, a Texan owner of a gun and hunting supplies store owner from El Paso, got a brand-new Mercury Capri V6 as a present for her 40th birthday. The car was meant to be used as a second car in the family. It was yellow, with a black hood and black rims and had an automatic transmission. It served the family well, rarely failing and never leaving them stranded, and was once driven all the way to LA during the fuel crisis, when the family's Chevrolet C10 and Dodge Monaco would be too gas-guzzling In 1977, it went to Ben Robinson, their son, a guitarist in the hard rock band "Point of Oblivion", which he formed with friends. He...

[Petrolheadia]

What is the most working-class car where you live?

In my area (and generally in Poland), it is the W202 Mercedes C-Class, usually in a 4-cylinder sedan version. In most run-down/ghetto urban neighbourhoods and construction/home improvement sites there is at least one.

[Arkinesia]

Also, for a laugh. The P85D achieves 0.89 lateral g on the skidpad in 2015. To compare, a modified Crown Victoria achieved 0.87 lateral g in 1998. The P85D is, by your own words, the """performance""" version. Doesn't exactly set a high standard, does it?

Maybe the “85” in “P85D” stands for its skidpad average. It outperformed expectations! Gold star! JD Power award! Best in class handling!

Tesla and co. only concern themselves with 0-100 because 100km/h is where their advantage stops and the next step to 200km/h becomes a very different story. Electric cars may very well be the future of personal transport, but as far as being the complete performance package is concerned, they're miles off the establishment.

As the above example shows, it's laughable to claim that the Model S is a performance vehicle. Also, re: acceleration: CVTs suck at everything except commuter driving.

Thing is the Tesla offers better preformance at a much lower price. The Tesla is better. Super car performance without the super car rarity and a better price. But the fact that electric cars are outperforming gas cars means electric cars will invetitahlinevitably win. It is only a matter of time.

This is a meme.

Isn't it, though? Tesla is basically meme at this point.

>le upstart performance vehicles which don't live up to hype
>le upstart luxury vehicles that promise to compete with the 3-Series/X3 and fail to even launch decently

The prius of all things is the only hybrid I have driven and not hated. I preferred it to the camery.

I would prefer having my nuts slowly cut off with a plastic knife than drive a Camry. Well, I guess any of the post-2005 models are livable at least.

[Novus America]

Fast electric cars actually seem pretty noisy.

I actually like the sound of electric cars...

Far quieter, but you still have wind and tire noise.

I find it boring, it's a meek hum.

While I like a good exhaust note, noise pollution is a big problem in cities. Quieter cars will make life more pleasant at home.

[Corrian]

Honestly, usually I find exhaust noises and engines annoying, and I've never been one to drool over a nice sounding car engine. With exceptions, though. I honestly dig the sound of the Pagani Zonda

[Auzkhia]

What is the most working-class car where you live?

In my area (and generally in Poland), it is the W202 Mercedes C-Class, usually in a 4-cylinder sedan version. In most run-down/ghetto urban neighbourhoods and construction/home improvement sites there is at least one.

Ha! So, by Polish I'm working class?

Mind you I have the V6, so maybe upper working class?

But, to answer your question: Anything like the first generation Dodge Neon, Kia Sephia, Hyundai Accent or a Chevrolet Cavalier, or maybe a few Toyota Corollas, and of clapped out course Honda Civics and Accords. Old cheap cars owned by people who have to save up for basic maintenance, like oil changes.

[Petrolheadia]

Also, for a laugh. The P85D achieves 0.89 lateral g on the skidpad in 2015. To compare, a modified Crown Victoria achieved 0.87 lateral g in 1998. The P85D is, by your own words, the """performance""" version. Doesn't exactly set a high standard, does it?

Maybe the “85” in “P85D” stands for its skidpad average. It outperformed expectations! Gold star! JD Power award! Best in class handling!

First, let's remember that the Crown Vic was modified. As the guys who built it say,

In the Crown Vic's nose, we implanted stiffer coil springs that we liberated from a bin of cop-car parts, then trimmed them to lower ride height. At the rear, we tricked the airbag springs into matching the height of the now-drooping snout. Bilstein shocks were inserted in favor of a trial set of Konis that proved too jarring. We opted for a 25-millimeter Addco anti-roll bar at the rear, plus stiffer front anti-roll-bar bushings and stiffer rear upper-control-arm bushings. We dispensed with the 3.27:1 rear end in favor of a zestier 3.73 Torsen connected to a NASCAR driveshaft balanced up to 200 mph. (See, it pays to hang around Gasoline Alley.) To avoid a USS Thresher–style structural collapse, we welded a pile of 1.25-inch tubing into tri­angulated frame stiffeners that extended some nine feet before evolving into a Golden Gate crossmember under the radi­ator. It looks like something Bud Moore might have concocted.

The stock Crown Vic Police Interceptor does 0.8 g.

And the Tesla Model S P90D, the current model, does 0.92 g. For the record, here is competitors' data:
- Chevrolet SS - 0.97 g
- Porsche Panamera Turbo - 0.96 g.
- Dodge Charger Hellcat - 0.94 g,
- Alpina B7 - 0.93 g,
- Maserati Quattroporte - 0.93 g,
- Mercedes S63 AMG - 0.91 g,
- Jaguar XJR - 0.91 g,
- Audi S8 - 0.90 g,
- Lincoln Continental - 0.90 g,
- Cadillac CT6 - 0.88 g,
- Bentley Continental - 0.86 g,
- Lexus LS600h - 0.80 g.

Sure, it's not best in class, but it is not lagging behind. And it makes up with acceleration. Plus, if handling would advance as fast as it did, the new P100D would make 0.95 lateral g.

Tesla and co. only concern themselves with 0-100 because 100km/h is where their advantage stops and the next step to 200km/h becomes a very different story. Electric cars may very well be the future of personal transport, but as far as being the complete performance package is concerned, they're miles off the establishment.

As the above example shows, it's laughable to claim that the Model S is a performance vehicle. Also, re: acceleration: CVTs suck at everything except commuter driving.

Which is incidentally 99% of what cars do.

This is a meme.

Isn't it, though? Tesla is basically meme at this point.

>le upstart performance vehicles which don't live up to hype
>le upstart luxury vehicles that promise to compete with the 3-Series/X3 and fail to even launch decently

If you mean that they have shown a prototype, the Range Rover Evoque, Ford Fiesta, Ford Mondeo, Ford Kuga and Mercedes SLK also have been launched "indecently". If you beat a launch sales speed record, that is by all means a decent launch.

The prius of all things is the only hybrid I have driven and not hated. I preferred it to the camery.

I would prefer having my nuts slowly cut off with a plastic knife than drive a Camry. Well, I guess any of the post-2005 models are livable at least.

The Camry Hybrid is the best midsize of all in my opinion. It does not burn too much gas, is quiet and reliable, plus it is quite spacious. #2 goes to the Euro Accord.

[The Two Jerseys]

So, it is best in class.

What, the Tesla?

[Petrolheadia]

So, it is best in class.

What, the Tesla?

Oh, I misread that the P85D had 0.99, not 0.89 g. I corrected it.

And the current model, the P90D, does 0.92 g.

[The Two Jerseys]

What, the Tesla?

Oh, I misread that the P85D had 0.99, not 0.89 g. I corrected it.

And the current model, the P90D, does 0.92 g.

And would still be behind the Chevy SS, which according to C&D pulls .97g on the skidpad, and the Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat, which pulls .94g.

[Petrolheadia]

Oh, I misread that the P85D had 0.99, not 0.89 g. I corrected it.

And the current model, the P90D, does 0.92 g.

And would still be behind the Chevy SS, which according to C&D pulls .97g on the skidpad, and the Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat, which pulls .94g.

Still, out of 12 competitors it beats 7 and loses to 5, so it is above average.
And 0-100 mph (because, for some reason you prefer that to 0-60, despite there being 2 countries, Australia and Germany, where you can do 100 mph legally, and you can do 60 mph legally in every country):
- Dodge Charger Hellcat - 7.2 s,
- Tesla P90D - 8 s,
- Porsche Panamera Turbo - 8.1 s,
- Audi S8 - 8.5 s,
- Bentley Continental - 9.7 s.
- Jaguar XJR - 10.2 s,
- Maserati Quattroporte - 10.4 s,
- Chevrolet SS - 10.5 s,
- Alpina B7 - 10.5 s,
- Cadillac CT6 - 11 s,
- Mercedes S63 AMG - 11.3 s,
- Lexus LS600h - 14.5 s.

But, as acceleration of the P100D is going to be over 10% better, it will probably beat the Hellcat.

[Licana]

Maybe the “85” in “P85D” stands for its skidpad average. It outperformed expectations! Gold star! JD Power award! Best in class handling!

First, let's remember that the Crown Vic was modified. As the guys who built it say,

Yes, this was noted in my post. It's still a very heavy car (that they made heavier!) that has to work with technologies nearly two decades behind that of the Tesla.

And the Tesla Model S P90D, the current model, does 0.92 g. For the record, here is competitors' data:

I've got 0.9g from the same source.

Plus, if handling would advance as fast as it did, the new P100D would make 0.95 lateral g.

It would actually be 0.91.

Which is incidentally 99% of what cars do.

>but t-t-that's what most cars do

This is a bad meme that needs to die. Performance vehicles are expected to be comprehensively better (in terms of driving performance) than most cars. Excluding acceleration, the Tesla fails across the board. It's not a performance vehicle.

[Tinder Enthusiasts]

And would still be behind the Chevy SS, which according to C&D pulls .97g on the skidpad, and the Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat, which pulls .94g.

Still, out of 12 competitors it beats 7 and loses to 5, so it is above average.
And 0-100 mph (because, for some reason you prefer that to 0-60, despite there being 2 countries, Australia and Germany, where you can do 100 mph legally, and you can do 60 mph legally in every country):
- Dodge Charger Hellcat - 7.2 s,
- Tesla P90D - 8 s,
- Porsche Panamera Turbo - 8.1 s,
- Audi S8 - 8.5 s,
- Bentley Continental - 9.7 s.
- Jaguar XJR - 10.2 s,
- Maserati Quattroporte - 10.4 s,
- Chevrolet SS - 10.5 s,
- Alpina B7 - 10.5 s,
- Cadillac CT6 - 11 s,
- Mercedes S63 AMG - 11.3 s,
- Lexus LS600h - 14.5 s.

But, as acceleration of the P100D is going to be over 10% better, it will probably beat the Hellcat.

Aside from the SS, the Hellcat and possibly the Continental because it's a coupe, all of those cars are about as oxymoronic as the Tesla. Large, heavy, expensive and somewhat impractical machines that can only keep up with a true performance car in a straight line. Some people find super sedans cool, I find them to be pointless. They are too expensive to be used as a daily drive and they lack the edge to make track work truly enjoyable.

[Licana]

Aside from the SS, the Hellcat and possibly the Continental because it's a coupe, all of those cars are about as oxymoronic as the Tesla. Large, heavy, expensive and somewhat impractical machines that can only keep up with a true performance car in a straight line.

I'd say that describes the Continental to a T tbh.

Some people find super sedans cool, I find them to be pointless. They are too expensive to be used as a daily drive and they lack the edge to make track work truly enjoyable.

two car for life.

[Petrolheadia]

First, let's remember that the Crown Vic was modified. As the guys who built it say,

Yes, this was noted in my post. It's still a very heavy car (that they made heavier!) that has to work with technologies nearly two decades behind that of the Tesla.

And the Tesla Model S P90D, the current model, does 0.92 g. For the record, here is competitors' data:

I've got 0.9g from the same source.

Plus, if handling would advance as fast as it did, the new P100D would make 0.95 lateral g.

It would actually be 0.91.

Which is incidentally 99% of what cars do.

>but t-t-that's what most cars do

This is a bad meme that needs to die. Performance vehicles are expected to be comprehensively better (in terms of driving performance) than most cars. Excluding acceleration, the Tesla fails across the board. It's not a performance vehicle.

How come Tesla is not a performance car, if it has handling on par with the Audi S8, Mercedes S63 AMG and Jaguar XJR, which are considered performance cars, and hands them their asses in acceleration up to over 100 mph?

[Licana]

How come Tesla is not a performance car, if it has handling on par with the Audi S8, Mercedes S63 AMG and Jaguar XJR, which are considered performance cars

Because they're fairly shitty "performance" cars that shouldn't be considered as such in the first place.

edit: also, who told you these lies about the S63's performance figures?

[The Two Jerseys]

How come Tesla is not a performance car, if it has handling on par with the Audi S8, Mercedes S63 AMG and Jaguar XJR, which are considered performance cars

Because they're fairly shitty "performance" cars that shouldn't be considered as such in the first place.

I don't know why we're even comparing the numbers for the Sedan de Ville CT6, considering it's a base full-size luxury sedan that isn't even pretending to be a "performance" car.

[Petrolheadia]

How come Tesla is not a performance car, if it has handling on par with the Audi S8, Mercedes S63 AMG and Jaguar XJR, which are considered performance cars

Because they're fairly shitty "performance" cars that shouldn't be considered as such in the first place.

Why do you think so? Because they have a 2nd row of seats that can host fully grown humans? Trust me, they have been engineered to go around a track as fast as a fullsize saloon can go, while offering creature comforts of a hotel suite.

And the Audi S8 had been one of the cars nominated by the Top Gear magazine 2 months ago for their search for the most fun new car, something that no Ferrari or Lamborghini has accomplished.

[Licana]

Why do you think so? Because they have a 2nd row of seats that can host fully grown humans?

Strawman argument detected.

Trust me, they have been engineered to go around a track as fast as a fullsize saloon can go, while offering creature comforts of a hotel suite.

No they weren't. Either that, or they need to get new engineers. The CTS-V (an actual performance sedan) does all of that while being faster than a German, Mid-Engine, AWD supercar around Laguna.

And the Audi S8 had been one of the cars nominated by the Top Gear magazine 2 months ago for their search for the most fun new car, something that no Ferrari or Lamborghini has accomplished.

>top gear magazine
>anything post-clarkson Top Gear

wow what a prestigious award.

[Petrolheadia]

Why do you think so? Because they have a 2nd row of seats that can host fully grown humans?

Strawman argument detected.

Trust me, they have been engineered to go around a track as fast as a fullsize saloon can go, while offering creature comforts of a hotel suite.

No they weren't. Either that, or they need to get new engineers. The CTS-V (an actual performance sedan) does all of that while being faster than a German, Mid-Engine, AWD supercar around Laguna.

OK, then they have to change their engineers, but the cars have been engineered as performance as possible.

And the Audi S8 had been one of the cars nominated by the Top Gear magazine 2 months ago for their search for the most fun new car, something that no Ferrari or Lamborghini has accomplished.

>top gear magazine
>anything post-clarkson Top Gear

wow what a prestigious award.

Do you realise that the magazine is, and has always been, a separate entity?

[Aurea]

What is the most working-class car where you live?

There isn't one. In Brazil if you own a car, you're middle class, no doubt about it. If you're working class and own a car, you're a drug trafficker, pimp or thief.

The most popular car though is either the VW Gol (not Golf) or the Fiat Palio. Seems like every other car is one of those. And recently a lot of Chevrolet Onix have been around. But the Gol or Palio is the usual typical 'middle class' or in some places 'upper working class' car.

[Licana]

OK, then they have to change their engineers, but the cars have been engineered as performance as possible.

The "they need to change their engineers" comment was sardonic. I was stating that if their performance was seen as being "as good as possible" then it was the result of the engineers being incapable of doing their job.

Do you realise that the magazine is, and has always been, a separate entity?

>anything non-Clarkson Top Gear

also, according to your very own magazine, you know something a shitty """"performance""" sedan has never won? Car of the Year. Actually, as an interest, I'm looking for this two month old Top Gear article you mentioned that proclaimed the S8 to be the "most fun new car." I haven't found it yet, but I did find this on the top gear website. Relevant passage:

OK, so we lied - we will come clean about the S8. Promise not to be disappointed? Good. Because the S8’s not very interesting. Engine note aside I don’t know why you’d have it over a diesel A8. Both major on torque and refinement. Audi claims the S8 is sporty and sure, it’s faster in a straight line and I’m sure they have figures that show it’s superior in every measurable test, but it doesn’t feel exciting to drive.

Ouch. That doesn't sound fun at all.

[Arkinesia]

Because they're fairly shitty "performance" cars that shouldn't be considered as such in the first place.

I don't know why we're even comparing the numbers for the Sedan de Ville CT6, considering it's a base full-size luxury sedan that isn't even pretending to be a "performance" car.

That the CT6 is even being included should be quite telling. “See? It outperforms a base model car!”

[Lord Tothe]

I have the option to buy a 1981 AMC Eagle "Kammback" 2-door hatchback. It has a 258 (4.2L) inline-6, a manual transmission, and what looks like a good body. Some of the plastic trim is falling off due to UV degradation, but IDGAF about that. It runs but needs a tune-up, belt replacement, hose replacement, etc. as is expected from a 35-year-old-car. I'd be taking a hit to the fuel economy compared to my current econobox, but I do need a car that can handle severe winter driving conditions and mountain roads.