NationStates' Transgender Thread II

[Aphryss]

But they can no longer be blatant about it. They have to find something legitimate to disqualify/fire them for.

Some companies are good at making shit up.

I'm not saying you shouldn't fight against stupid bathroom laws; just don't expect it to make too much of a difference on other issues.

This is true. Discrimination on the basis of gender identity has been illegal where I live since ... 2006 I think? The High Court or whoever decided that it was covered under existing sex discrimination legislation, so it's not (unfortunately) stated explicitly in law. Despite this, the 2008 Enquiry found that housing and employment discrimination is still a major issue. I don't think employers would own up to being openly bigoted, but there's a degree of subconscious discomfort there that makes cisgendered applicants more attractive in comparison.

In other news, I went down to a vintage shop today and found a nice brooch! It's sort of leaf/teardrop shaped in silver, with a turquoise inset. Of course, now I need to find a nice blue scarf to go with it! I was actually looking for a brooch to go with my purple scarf, but they didn't have anything that really worked well. Lots of diamanté stuff, which I find overly busy.

There's another vintage shop or two I hope to check out tomorrow, too.

[Philjia]

I mean, if I'm going to complain about my passability I should at least provide the photos.

You're better looking than some of the girls I see when I'm out and about. Although I am from Newcastle.

[Fabulous Rainicorns]

I mean, if I'm going to complain about my passability I should at least provide the photos.

You're adorable.

[Nature-Spirits]

To be honest, I think passing is overrated. I mean, yes, it is desirable to pass at a glance -- to pass well enough that when you're walking down the street, you don't really stand out. It is safer that way. But I don't think that passing "perfectly" -- that is, passing even when people closely examine your features -- is all it's chalked up to be. I think that a lot of non-passing trans people are actually quite good-looking. Also, in the case of trans women who want to be sexually and/or romantically involved with men, not passing can make it easier to have the penis talk -- instead of it being some big reveal, you're just checking that they know and are okay with it. (Of course, it's also good to have the penis talk with women, but men are more violent -- if a woman finds out that you're trans, the most you might get is "Oh, sorry, I'm not interested in trans women", while if a man finds out that you're trans, you might end up in the hospital, or even dead.)

I know that I stand out because of my height. I think that once I'm on HRT, I will look a lot more androgynous and, when I want to be femme, pass more easily as female. But I don't think I'll ever pass "perfectly", and I'm okay with that. Trans is beautiful.

[Wallenburg]

armed transexual revolution

This is the new plan.

Transgender master race!

[Philjia]

This is the new plan.

Transgender master race!

Some republicans think this is true.

[Wallenburg]

Transgender master race!

Some republicans think this is true.

Some Republicans think the earth is flat and that Obama is a Muslim atheist. If an extremist Republican were to claim that transgender people really are trying to commit genocide upon cisgender people, it would barely surprise me.

[USS Monitor]

Some companies are good at making shit up.

I'm not saying you shouldn't fight against stupid bathroom laws; just don't expect it to make too much of a difference on other issues.

This is true. Discrimination on the basis of gender identity has been illegal where I live since ... 2006 I think? The High Court or whoever decided that it was covered under existing sex discrimination legislation, so it's not (unfortunately) stated explicitly in law. Despite this, the 2008 Enquiry found that housing and employment discrimination is still a major issue. I don't think employers would own up to being openly bigoted, but there's a degree of subconscious discomfort there that makes cisgendered applicants more attractive in comparison.

It's illegal here too, and the warehouse where I work actually has hired one or two trans people, but it's hard to have a friendly work environment if you have a lot of transphobic attitudes floating around. I've heard some pretty nasty gossip at work, talking about a transgender coworker. I think the longer the antidiscrimination laws are on the books, and the more they are enforced, the more things will improve, but it's still going to be a slow process.

In other news, I went down to a vintage shop today and found a nice brooch! It's sort of leaf/teardrop shaped in silver, with a turquoise inset. Of course, now I need to find a nice blue scarf to go with it! I was actually looking for a brooch to go with my purple scarf, but they didn't have anything that really worked well. Lots of diamanté stuff, which I find overly busy.

There's another vintage shop or two I hope to check out tomorrow, too.

Vintage shops are awesome.

[Valaran]

Would it be ok if I ask what the precise difference is between transgender and gender dysphoria is? Or if there is no academic/medical consensus on the issue, where does the complexity/debate arise?

I'm just ignorant on the topic, since gender dysphoria is not something I've ever really come across, though it gets bandied about in NSG a good deal.

(also this isn't meant to provoke debate)

[Philjia]

Would it be ok if I ask what the precise difference is between transgender and gender dysphoria is? Or if there is no academic/medical consensus on the issue, where does the complexity/debate arise?

I'm just ignorant on the topic, since gender dysphoria is not something I've ever really come across, though it gets bandied about in NSG a good deal.

(also this isn't meant to provoke debate)

Being transgender is the state of being a gender not reflected by your physical sex. Gender Dysphoria is a common side effect of this; feelings of discomfort, anxiety, and agitation as a result of not having the right body.

[Valaran]

Would it be ok if I ask what the precise difference is between transgender and gender dysphoria is? Or if there is no academic/medical consensus on the issue, where does the complexity/debate arise?

I'm just ignorant on the topic, since gender dysphoria is not something I've ever really come across, though it gets bandied about in NSG a good deal.

(also this isn't meant to provoke debate)

Being transgender is the state of being a gender not reflected by your physical sex. Gender Dysphoria is a common side effect of this; feelings of discomfort, anxiety, and agitation as a result of not having the right body.

Thanks.

So, gender dysphoria cannot exist without first being transgender, then?

And does this view has some sort of academic/medical consensus?

[Albrook]

Would it be ok if I ask what the precise difference is between transgender and gender dysphoria is? Or if there is no academic/medical consensus on the issue, where does the complexity/debate arise?

I'm just ignorant on the topic, since gender dysphoria is not something I've ever really come across, though it gets bandied about in NSG a good deal.

(also this isn't meant to provoke debate)

Gender Dysphoria is more or less an individual has driving them to be transgender, in layman's terms. Behaviors such as repulsion from one's genitals, body hair, and discomfort in one's gender role are often signs of Dysphoria. Transgender is simply a classification of one's gender identity as not belonging to the traditional gender of their birth-sex. The two go together as it is often the emergence of Dysphoria that prompts one's discovery of their transgender identity.

Gender Dysphoria is recognized in DSM-V, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition. So at least some important doctors think that it's a big deal, unlike some of the other peeps in NSG.

(/totally-fell-off-the-question-from-this-point-on-and-kept-going-so-paragraph-break)

Then again, most of them in NSG claim to be Christian when bashing (not logically refuting) pro-LGBT+ arguments, despite the messages of love of one another represented in the story of Jesus and in the Ten Commandments. An annotated version of the bible even said in the notes, on the related topic of homosexuality that "Fantasizing something and acting on it is sinful...", calls out those who both "water down" the apparent sin as no big deal and also calls out those who "...damage God's reputation by harshly judging...", and states that we, and all people, deserve love for one another regardless (True Images 429, 1121). Now I do know for a fact that church is for the sinners, and that there is no perfect man or woman out there. I won't lie - I do admit to it, and won't care to "water down" my evident sin, in God's eyes. But I do know that Jesus did die on the cross for our sins, and those still righteous in their lives can enter Heaven after death.

EDIT:

Being transgender is the state of being a gender not reflected by your physical sex. Gender Dysphoria is a common side effect of this; feelings of discomfort, anxiety, and agitation as a result of not having the right body.

Thanks.

So, gender dysphoria cannot exist without first being transgender, then?

And does this view has some sort of academic/medical consensus?

I got some evidence of medical recognition up top in citing DSM-V for ya, if that counts.

[Valaran]

Gender Dysphoria is more or less an individual has driving them to be transgender, in layman's terms. Behaviors such as repulsion from one's genitals, body hair, and discomfort in one's gender role are often signs of Dysphoria. Transgender is simply a classification of one's gender identity as not belonging to the traditional gender of their birth-sex. The two go together as it is often the emergence of Dysphoria that prompts one's discovery of their transgender identity.

Much obliged! Thanks to your's and Philjia's, that all seems cleared up.

Gender Dysphoria is recognized in DSM-V, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition. So at least some important doctors think that it's a big deal, unlike some of the other peeps in NSG.

Cool. Is being Transgender also recognised as something distinct (i.e. not just a mental disorder, as I've seen claimed) as well then? (in fairness, I can probably research this one myself).

(/totally-fell-off-the-question-from-this-point-on-and-kept-going-so-paragraph-break)

Then again, most of them in NSG claim to be Christian when bashing (not logically refuting) pro-LGBT+ arguments, despite the messages of love of one another represented in the story of Jesus and in the Ten Commandments. An annotated version of the bible even said in the notes, on the related topic of homosexuality that "Fantasizing something and acting on it is sinful...", calls out those who both "water down" the apparent sin as no big deal and also calls out those who "...damage God's reputation by harshly judging...", and states that we, and all people, deserve love for one another regardless (True Images 429, 1121). Now I do know for a fact that church is for the sinners, and that there is no perfect man or woman out there. I won't lie - I do admit to it, and won't care to "water down" my evident sin, in God's eyes. But I do know that Jesus did die on the cross for our sins, and those still righteous in their lives can enter Heaven after death.

Theology's always a thorny issue with such topics (its not like they're uncontroversial as it is, but involving religion is a surefire way to up the ante). I generally distance myself from scripture when it comes to social policy, as Bible quotes can be found for almost any stance, there never is a consensus view, and it just adds a whole other layer of complexity and emotion. I wouldn't know where to begin, and not being Christian, I don't consider it as important as public policy and social attitudes. But I would never think having faith in the Christian God would have compromised one's acceptance of LGBT stances. That has always seemed a false logic to me.

I got some evidence of medical recognition up top in citing DSM-V for ya, if that counts.

In honesty, I wouldn't know if it 'counts'. But its clearly something worth considering

[Liberonscien]

I had a dream a few nights ago where I had a female body. Then a few days later I had another dream like it and I liked it both times.

Third and fourth time.

I think my subconscious is telling me something.

[Liberonscien]

I had a dream a few nights ago where I had a female body. Then a few days later I had another dream like it and I liked it both times.

This could be a sign. Remember, I'm always here to help!

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[Albrook]

Cool. Is being Transgender also recognised as something distinct (i.e. not just a mental disorder, as I've seen claimed) as well then? (in fairness, I can probably research this one myself).

Indeed. Constructs such as the Gender Unicorn are even part of college RA training, as mentioned by another poster a few pages or so ago. Often, before a transgender person can receive Hormone Replacement Therapy, they require either a year of full-time experience as their gender (to get used to the gender role, mainly) or a declaration of informed consent in recent times. The former is more indicative, in my opinion, of a non-transient existence of one's transgender identity.

Informed consent and the former do test for certain criteria to ensure transgender individuals are truly transgender in that they are prepared to accept the full responsibility of changing not only their appearance, but their gender role as well - as being psychologically devoted to the other sex.

[Vassenor]

I still haven't had one.

[Albrook]

I had a dream a few nights ago where I had a female body. Then a few days later I had another dream like it and I liked it both times.

Third and fourth time.

I think my subconscious is telling me something.

I still haven't had one.

I had one once. In hindsight, what I was wearing looks a lot like the all-black outfit I was wearing in my pictures (on the last page)...woo hoo, dream omens!

Kinda bummed I'm still male in most of my dreams though. I've been around male me too long (well, time does go slower between 2:00pm-10:00pm (the time of day I dress "normally", to my parents)).

[Liberonscien]

Because people think that anything that does not fit with their view of reality is wrong.

It's not even that. It's that they're so scared of something being different that they want society to be this sludge where everyone is the same

From a cold scientific evolutionary perspective, that is rather stupid. More variety is good for the gene pool and more chances for the species to survive.

From a warm(?) moral perspective, I don't think it is right for someone to hate someone for being different.

[Veceria]

To be honest, I think passing is overrated. I mean, yes, it is desirable to pass at a glance -- to pass well enough that when you're walking down the street, you don't really stand out. It is safer that way. But I don't think that passing "perfectly" -- that is, passing even when people closely examine your features -- is all it's chalked up to be. I think that a lot of non-passing trans people are actually quite good-looking. Also, in the case of trans women who want to be sexually and/or romantically involved with men, not passing can make it easier to have the penis talk -- instead of it being some big reveal, you're just checking that they know and are okay with it. (Of course, it's also good to have the penis talk with women, but men are more violent -- if a woman finds out that you're trans, the most you might get is "Oh, sorry, I'm not interested in trans women", while if a man finds out that you're trans, you might end up in the hospital, or even dead.)

I know that I stand out because of my height. I think that once I'm on HRT, I will look a lot more androgynous and, when I want to be femme, pass more easily as female. But I don't think I'll ever pass "perfectly", and I'm okay with that. Trans is beautiful.

To be honest, if a man uses violence when he finds out you're trans, he would've done the same in a relationship with a cis female, sooner or later. Only assholes use violence.

[Nature-Spirits]

Cool. Is being Transgender also recognised as something distinct (i.e. not just a mental disorder, as I've seen claimed) as well then? (in fairness, I can probably research this one myself).

Indeed. Constructs such as the Gender Unicorn are even part of college RA training, as mentioned by another poster a few pages or so ago. Often, before a transgender person can receive Hormone Replacement Therapy, they require either a year of full-time experience as their gender (to get used to the gender role, mainly) or a declaration of informed consent in recent times. The former is more indicative, in my opinion, of a non-transient existence of one's transgender identity.

Informed consent and the former do test for certain criteria to ensure transgender individuals are truly transgender in that they are prepared to accept the full responsibility of changing not only their appearance, but their gender role as well - as being psychologically devoted to the other sex.

Gender roles are archaic and trans people shouldn't have to conform to the gender role of their "new gender", IMO. If you've actually gone to the trouble of getting HRT, chances are that you won't regret it. RLE (i.e. real-life experience) is cissexist and unneeded, not to mention potentially harmful; the same is true of pretty much all methods used to determine if someone is "really transgender".

To be honest, I think passing is overrated. I mean, yes, it is desirable to pass at a glance -- to pass well enough that when you're walking down the street, you don't really stand out. It is safer that way. But I don't think that passing "perfectly" -- that is, passing even when people closely examine your features -- is all it's chalked up to be. I think that a lot of non-passing trans people are actually quite good-looking. Also, in the case of trans women who want to be sexually and/or romantically involved with men, not passing can make it easier to have the penis talk -- instead of it being some big reveal, you're just checking that they know and are okay with it. (Of course, it's also good to have the penis talk with women, but men are more violent -- if a woman finds out that you're trans, the most you might get is "Oh, sorry, I'm not interested in trans women", while if a man finds out that you're trans, you might end up in the hospital, or even dead.)

I know that I stand out because of my height. I think that once I'm on HRT, I will look a lot more androgynous and, when I want to be femme, pass more easily as female. But I don't think I'll ever pass "perfectly", and I'm okay with that. Trans is beautiful.

To be honest, if a man uses violence when he finds out you're trans, he would've done the same in a relationship with a cis female, sooner or later. Only assholes use violence.

Agreed. Still, it's often necessary to have the conversation before you hop into bed with someone, because it's safer to reveal that you're trans in a more public environment than in a private environment while you're initiating sex.

[Albrook]

Indeed. Constructs such as the Gender Unicorn are even part of college RA training, as mentioned by another poster a few pages or so ago. Often, before a transgender person can receive Hormone Replacement Therapy, they require either a year of full-time experience as their gender (to get used to the gender role, mainly) or a declaration of informed consent in recent times. The former is more indicative, in my opinion, of a non-transient existence of one's transgender identity.

Informed consent and the former do test for certain criteria to ensure transgender individuals are truly transgender in that they are prepared to accept the full responsibility of changing not only their appearance, but their gender role as well - as being psychologically devoted to the other sex.

Gender roles are archaic and trans people shouldn't have to conform to the gender role of their "new gender", IMO. If you've actually gone to the trouble of getting HRT, chances are that you won't regret it. RLE (i.e. real-life experience) is cissexist and unneeded, not to mention potentially harmful; the same is true of pretty much all methods used to determine if someone is "really transgender".

Apologies about the former. But I do believe there is some experience to be gained by expressing oneself for a while, and receiving the denial of apparent "male and cisgender privilege", should it exist, socially and economically. I'm in no way saying starving people of relief from their own bodies, but I am saying that there are expectations of different genders in society that could help shape their behavior to help them pass better, among other things, if they wish to go that way.

For some, like yourself from your recent comments on passing being overrated, that's not as important - and that's perfectly fine too. For me, the role helps. But for others that may not be the case, and you reminded me of that. Apologies again.

[Nature-Spirits]

Gender roles are archaic and trans people shouldn't have to conform to the gender role of their "new gender", IMO. If you've actually gone to the trouble of getting HRT, chances are that you won't regret it. RLE (i.e. real-life experience) is cissexist and unneeded, not to mention potentially harmful; the same is true of pretty much all methods used to determine if someone is "really transgender".

Apologies about the former. But I do believe there is some experience to be gained by expressing oneself for a while, and receiving the denial of apparent "male and cisgender privilege", should it exist, socially and economically. I'm in no way saying starving people of relief from their own bodies, but I am saying that there are expectations of different genders in society that could help shape their behavior to help them pass better, among other things, if they wish to go that way.

For some, like yourself from your recent comments on passing being overrated, that's not as important - and that's perfectly fine too. For me, the role helps. But for others that may not be the case, and you reminded me of that. Apologies again.

Fair enough; you do bring up good points. No hard feelings.

[Grenartia]

armed transexual revolution

This is the new plan.

Overthrow the cisnormative oppressors! Seize the means of transition! You have nothing to lose but the things that make you dysphoric!

[Linux and the X]

This is the new plan.

Overthrow the cisnormative oppressors! Seize the means of transition! You have nothing to lose but the things that make you dysphoric!

Stealing this. But changing the last to "nothing to lose but your dysphoria".