Segregated Bathrooms: A Problem?

[Infected Mushroom]

This is a very serious and pressing issue. Its one of the most pressing problems of the 21st century, at least in the developed world.

The segregation is everywhere.

If we get rid of all bathroom segregation, does it mean its okay for me to shit in the urinals?

No.

[Cyrisnia]

If we get rid of all bathroom segregation, does it mean its okay for me to shit in the urinals?

No.

That's segregating my shit from the urinals. If we can piss in toilets and urinals, why can't we shit in both?

Whats so bad about dropping trow and making a mean grumpy in a urinal?

[Nelson R Mandela]

It shouldn't be a problem because it is a normal thing to have in society.

[Grave_n_idle]

It shouldn't be a problem because it is a normal thing to have in society.

No, it's sometimes a normal thing to have in some societies. And while it is traditional in modern western cultures, 'tradition' is rarely a good reason for anything.

[Nelson R Mandela]

It shouldn't be a problem because it is a normal thing to have in society.

No, it's sometimes a normal thing to have in some societies. And while it is traditional in modern western cultures, 'tradition' is rarely a good reason for anything.

Why do you think tradition is rarely a good reason for anything?

[Grave_n_idle]

No, it's sometimes a normal thing to have in some societies. And while it is traditional in modern western cultures, 'tradition' is rarely a good reason for anything.

Why do you think tradition is rarely a good reason for anything?

Because it's rarely a good reason for anything. That's not really an opinion.

If you have a situation where the only reason something hasn't changed is 'tradition' - then that's counterproductive.

And if there are better reasons for something not to change, then 'tradition' is irrelevant.

So, at it's best, tradition is irrelevant to change, and at it's worst, it's counterproductive.

[Nelson R Mandela]

Why do you think tradition is rarely a good reason for anything?

Because it's rarely a good reason for anything. That's not really an opinion.

If you have a situation where the only reason something hasn't changed is 'tradition' - then that's counterproductive.

And if there are better reasons for something not to change, then 'tradition' is irrelevant.

So, at it's best, tradition is irrelevant to change, and at it's worst, it's counterproductive.

You and I have very opposite perspectives on tradition. Both of my parents are from the Congo but I grew up in the USA, so according to them tradition is very important to us because it keeps the family identity going and, in a way, your ethnicity and culture. It's the "remember where you came from" type of moral I've grown up with. I don't really have much to say on your perspective stating counter productivity due to tradition because of my polar perspective except things can change even when tradition is passed on, it just takes a few changes on the norm.

[Grave_n_idle]

Because it's rarely a good reason for anything. That's not really an opinion.

If you have a situation where the only reason something hasn't changed is 'tradition' - then that's counterproductive.

And if there are better reasons for something not to change, then 'tradition' is irrelevant.

So, at it's best, tradition is irrelevant to change, and at it's worst, it's counterproductive.

You and I have very opposite perspectives on tradition. Both of my parents are from the Congo but I grew up in the USA, so according to them tradition is very important to us because it keeps the family identity going and, in a way, your ethnicity and culture. It's the "remember where you came from" type of moral I've grown up with. I don't really have much to say on your perspective stating counter productivity due to tradition because of my polar perspective except things can change even when tradition is passed on, it just takes a few changes on the norm.

I remember reading a Centre for Global Education article a few years back about how many people in Kinshasa have either insufficient or no toilet facilities. Disease - especially typhus - is of course rampant in such an environment, but the residents blamed the disease on 'kindoki', not poor sanitation.

I only mention this because we're talking about toilets and tradition, and you've mentioned the Congo. If you're going to argue for 'tradition', you should really be exposing yourself to raw sewage on a daily basis, and then blaming witches.

[Gim]

It shouldn't be a problem because it is a normal thing to have in society.

It's not a matter to normal people, like men and women, but a problem for transgender people.

[Stellonia]

In response to the OP:

It is commonly taught that modern Western societies are no longer segregated. However, this is a lie. Society might no longer be racially segregated, but bathrooms remain segregated.

Males can only use one of two sets of bathrooms in a building/floor, and females can only use the other of the two sets.

Is this a problem?

I think it is. Segregated bathrooms must end.

I disagree with your position.

Segregated bathrooms will continue to promote divisions in society between the genders and the sexes

I sincerely doubt that something as marginal as a bathroom could cause societal divisions between the genders and the sexes.

[T]hey are also unacceptably callous towards people who might not identify comfortably with either of the two genders/sexes or who may look different from the side they would rather identify with.

Bathrooms are segregated according to sex, not according to gender.

It is a pointless exercise in social division. What is the point in keeping bathrooms separate?

Some people are uncomfortable using the restroom with people of the opposite sex.

It does nothing but reinforce labels.

What do you mean?

There is another problem. It is unfair for the females. Females generally wait longer than males to use the facilities; this is discrimination. I can speak from personal experience. Having traveled to many parts of the planet it always seems the case that the line-up for the female side is much longer. Why is this? Well its because of the design. Facilities are separate but NOT equal. Male facilities have exclusive access to urinals and so the line up is shorter. The true solution to equality is to have one bathroom for all genders and to remove the urinals (females can't use them anyway and they provide an unfair advantage to a set of the population in wait time). This way, EVERYONE gets an average wait time for relief that is approximately equal and that isn't affected by the availability of equipment. You can still maintain two washrooms per building but EVERYONE should be allowed to use either one and they should both be completely stocked with bowls.

Many girls can use urinals. Why not put urinals in the women's restrooms, too?

Bathrooms should be unified. What are people scared of?

As I said, some people are uncomfortable using the restroom with people of the opposite sex.

So here is the discussion question.

Or, to be more specific, questions. Plural. But I guess I'm just being overly pedantic.

1. Are segregated bathrooms a problem?

No.

2. What should/can be done to reform current facilities to promote equality?

I doubt that there is serious inequality between men's and women's facilities. Of course, if you insist that separate necessarily means inequal, we should introduce women's urinals.

[Marty]

Have you actually thought about the women who actually prefer segregated bathrooms?

Yeh. I don't care about them.
I'm sure some whites preferred segregated restaurants.

Top quality rebuttal there, mate.

[Grave_n_idle]

I sincerely doubt that something as marginal as a bathroom could cause societal divisions between the genders and the sexes.

We've all seen those breakdowns of how much time people spend per day, per year, per lifetime, doing various things.

The average person spends nearly two hours a week on the toilet. That's no totally inconsequential.

Some people are uncomfortable using the restroom with people of the opposite sex.

Most people aren't comfortable using the restroom with people of their OWN sex, either.

Ironically, that seems to be a relatively new invention - historically, communal toilets have catered to both men and women.

[Gim]

Most people aren't comfortable using the restroom with people of their OWN sex, either.

However, that doesn't happen very often. For the minority that feels that way, there are always Family Bathrooms.

[Grave_n_idle]

Most people aren't comfortable using the restroom with people of their OWN sex, either.

However, that doesn't happen very often. For the minority that feels that way, there are always Family Bathrooms.

I'm not sure that's true. Lots of people complain about 'shy bladder' when using public facilities. Hell, Japan has a whole industry dedicated to products that mask toilet noises.

I think most people are uncomfortable using the restroom when ANYONE - same gender or otherwise - is nearby. I also don't think we can really avoid the necessity of public conveniences - so it's something people are going to have to come to terms with.

[Gim]

However, that doesn't happen very often. For the minority that feels that way, there are always Family Bathrooms.

I'm not sure that's true. Lots of people complain about 'shy bladder' when using public facilities. Hell, Japan has a whole industry dedicated to products that mask toilet noises.

I think most people are uncomfortable using the restroom when ANYONE - same gender or otherwise - is nearby. I also don't think we can really avoid the necessity of public conveniences - so it's something people are going to have to come to terms with.

I think that is what with which people would have to live. Providing ideal privacy for each and every person costs room and money.
Perhaps, Japanese people are hypersensitive to "bathroom noises"; we don't see other nations complaining as much as they do.

[Grave_n_idle]

I'm not sure that's true. Lots of people complain about 'shy bladder' when using public facilities. Hell, Japan has a whole industry dedicated to products that mask toilet noises.

I think most people are uncomfortable using the restroom when ANYONE - same gender or otherwise - is nearby. I also don't think we can really avoid the necessity of public conveniences - so it's something people are going to have to come to terms with.

I think that is what with which people would have to live. Providing ideal privacy for each and every person costs room and money.
Perhaps, Japanese people are hypersensitive to "bathroom noises"; we don't see other nations complaining as much as they do.

Perhaps Japan is more sensitive, but then - Europeans and Americans use the 'courtesy flush'. Toilet privacy is an uncomfortable issue, regardless of gender. On the other hand - as I pointed out - that kind of privacy is a relatively new phenomenon where communal facilities are concerned. Historically, people have often sat and defecated quite happily, men and women, communally.

This whole conversation could be considered evidence of how prudish and fetishistic we've become as a species.

[Gim]

Perhaps Japan is more sensitive, but then - Europeans and Americans use the 'courtesy flush'. Toilet privacy is an uncomfortable issue, regardless of gender. On the other hand - as I pointed out - that kind of privacy is a relatively new phenomenon where communal facilities are concerned. Historically, people have often sat and defecated quite happily, men and women, communally.

This whole conversation could be considered evidence of how prudish and fetishistic we've become as a species.

Yes, because I personally don't care, so do people around me.

[Timsvill]

Most people aren't comfortable using the restroom with people of their OWN sex, either.

However, that doesn't happen very often. For the minority that feels that way, there are always Family Bathrooms.

What a novel idea! Using the family bathroom. Privacy, no one else in there with you. People need to learn that its ok to use the family bathroom.

[May Mays]

Why do you think tradition is rarely a good reason for anything?

Because it's rarely a good reason for anything. That's not really an opinion.

If you have a situation where the only reason something hasn't changed is 'tradition' - then that's counterproductive.

And if there are better reasons for something not to change, then 'tradition' is irrelevant.

So, at it's best, tradition is irrelevant to change, and at it's worst, it's counterproductive.

I don't want segregated bathrooms for a very simple reason.

I don't want to wait in a line.

[Ifreann]

However, that doesn't happen very often. For the minority that feels that way, there are always Family Bathrooms.

What a novel idea! Using the family bathroom. Privacy, no one else in there with you. People need to learn that its ok to use the family bathroom.

What the fuck is a family bathroom?

[May Mays]

What a novel idea! Using the family bathroom. Privacy, no one else in there with you. People need to learn that its ok to use the family bathroom.

What the fuck is a family bathroom?

Those bathrooms that are unisex and have a locking door.

[Gim]

However, that doesn't happen very often. For the minority that feels that way, there are always Family Bathrooms.

What a novel idea! Using the family bathroom. Privacy, no one else in there with you. People need to learn that its ok to use the family bathroom.

I use it sometimes, especially when the toilets in the public bathrooms are dirty.

[Timsvill]

What a novel idea! Using the family bathroom. Privacy, no one else in there with you. People need to learn that its ok to use the family bathroom.

What the fuck is a family bathroom?

http://americanrestroom.org/family/index.htm

[Gim]

What the fuck is a family bathroom?

Those bathrooms that are unisex and have a locking door.

In some areas, it has a disabled person sign on its door, but it's really for everybody.

[Valystria]

Bathrooms are segregated according to sex, not according to gender.

No, it isn't. The signs don't say "male" and "female". The signs say "men's" and "women's". Bathrooms are gender segregated.

Some people are uncomfortable using the restroom with people of the opposite other sex.

Then they should stop being sexists.

If someone said they're uncomfortable around black people, I'd call them a racist. You're doing the same thing about what sex a person happens to be of. That's sexism.