NationStates

Deuxtete wrote:

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Im sorry but getting a license to show the top part of your body is fucking stupid and so backward it hurts, sometimes social norms need to shredded like cabbage and changed, and the over-sexualisation of women's breasts (largely caused by Religion and conservative attitudes) and being all "hush hush not allowed to show because indecency" is one of them.

Just because its a social norm does not mean it has to stay that way for ever, social norms change constantly and they need to.

Slavery was a social norm, Jim crow, legally being allowed to beat your wife, fucking duels used to be socially acceptable norms, educated men believed in the ether for fuck sakes...

You are dead right they need to change, they should evolve with society.

Oh boy, covering up is akin to slavery. Here we go. You know what else is a social norm? Washing your hands. Guess we should evolve that one too eh?

But honestly considering your explanation you stand the same for public nudity do you not?

Deuxtete wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
People aren't that literal. You write about pecks and people usually think of a man. You write about breasts and people usually think of a woman.

How stupid people are isn't my problem. I passed high biology and human anatomy over 25 years ago, what I'm saying isn't news. If people aren't that basically educated they should at least have courtesy to not presume to be intelligent enough to think they can suggest what behavior is acceptable for common society.

*shrugs* Well intelligence isn't defined by what you think people should or shouldn't say.

People are have used phrases, slang, etc., since will forever.

But, let's not go off on a tangent and return to the topic.

Mefpan wrote:Can we please all keep our damn clothes on? I mean, we've invented those for a reason, you know.

No one using shirts would cause unemployment and economic problems.
Just look at what it takes to make a quality shirt.
Video from a Canadian company - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy6Ddp79Vqg

Did you notice all those people at the end of the video. They would be unemployed.

Ever since childhood, I've wondered why men can go topless, but women cannot. Never really makes sense, and is a blatant double standard.

The Grey Wolf wrote:Ever since childhood, I've wondered why men can go topless, but women cannot. Never really makes sense, and is a blatant double standard.

(Image)

I'd do it... if I didn't have stretch marks down below on the belly.

Yorkvale wrote:

Deuxtete wrote:How stupid people are isn't my problem. I passed high biology and human anatomy over 25 years ago, what I'm saying isn't news. If people aren't that basically educated they should at least have courtesy to not presume to be intelligent enough to think they can suggest what behavior is acceptable for common society.

Pfft, bullshit. Sorry, the vast majority of Americans font give a fuck about science and are not in scientifically organized roles and do not have the need to care about science things in general. Stop being so snobby and elitist about memorizing some passage from a textbook somewhere that no one cares about

Most Americans? You know this how? Your age is showing.
Oh shit "science things" like electricity, that kind of "science thing", or you know the tens of millions of people who use ..."science things" in their jobs.
Like concrete workers, brick masons, electricians, plumbers, everyone in medical professions, argriculture, culinary professionals, fucking hell the world must be such a bizarre fucking mystery through your eyes.

Or maybe bro you just focus on your pecks bro...do you even lift?
But stop, I already know you don't, body builders are really good with that science thing called "anatomy".

Fucking priceless.


What passage did I memorize?
Scientifically organized...are you picking words randomly?

Geez, I had no clue this many people felt that way. You all pro nudists as well?

Personally unless they are breastfeeding a baby otherwise no I say they shouldn't outside specifically designated locations like beaches and the like. I apply this same rule equally to both men and women, no shirt no service. It is indecent and rather impractical in most locations. Now on the otherhand when it comes to children honestly I don't really see the problem, literally young girls are pretty much indistinguishable from young boys so when it comes to rules like this they should pretty much be treated the same. Like literally there children, it's not like their doing anything sexual in any way intentionally. Let them wear what they want, and if they means nothing at all then oh well.

Yorkvale wrote:Geez, I had no clue this many people felt that way. You all pro nudists as well?

No. Just progressive.

Yorkvale wrote:Geez, I had no clue this many people felt that way. You all pro nudists as well?

I'm actually not really a fan of it, since breasts also have a function in sexual intercourse, and I'm generally for dressing yourself up appropriately. Yet it's not really my decision.

I am pro-nudism being legal.
I think it is a matter of free expression.

Clothing is a form of expression, and I am a proponent of free expression, as such, I cannot justify forced expression of any kind. Nudism is similar to the right to be silent. (Except broader and not strictly a legal thing.) Nobody should be able to compel expression.

BUT!!!!

There is another issue at stake here.
Unless those feminists and such arguing that breasts should be allowed are also, in general, pro-nudism, then what they are arguing is that breasts are not of a sexual nature.

This is fine.

But are they then prepared to say that someone who gropes breasts without permission has not committed sexual assault?

Because that's the conclusion you have to reach if you accept their reasoning.

I very much fucking doubt they are fine with this. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too.

Deuxtete wrote:

Yorkvale wrote:
Pfft, bullshit. Sorry, the vast majority of Americans font give a fuck about science and are not in scientifically organized roles and do not have the need to care about science things in general. Stop being so snobby and elitist about memorizing some passage from a textbook somewhere that no one cares about

Most Americans? You know this how? Your age is showing.
Oh shit "science things" like electricity, that kind of "science thing", or you know the tens of millions of people who use ..."science things" in their jobs.
Like concrete workers, brick masons, electricians, plumbers, everyone in medical professions, argriculture, culinary professionals, fucking hell the world must be such a bizarre fucking mystery through your eyes.

Or maybe bro you just focus on your pecks bro...do you even lift?
But stop, I already know you don't, body builders are really good with that science thing called "anatomy".

Fucking priceless.


What passage did I memorize?
Scientifically organized...are you picking words randomly?

Sorry, my passions are focused towards economics and business. And if you want to presume your superior intellect and belittle me by assuming I can't form sentences because I'm typing on a phone an auto correct is a thing then that's on you. Being a fucking pick and assuming that I should treat writing on a forum akin to typing up a 15 page research paper is equally ridiculous. I don't pay attention much to the science behind things and I imagine most people not in scientificly related fields do either. That seems like a reasonable assumption to me.

Sounds like you're making up for your insecurities though with that intellectual superiority complex you got there. I bet you can't speak a word of it though on a stage with more than 2 people looking at you.

If you're on a nude beach or in an appropriate area, why not. But, honestly, despite the fact that I'm a perpetually horny teenager, I'd really rather see everyone clothed. Wear your shirts, both men and women.

Yorkvale wrote:

Deuxtete wrote:Slavery was a social norm, Jim crow, legally being allowed to beat your wife, fucking duels used to be socially acceptable norms, educated men believed in the ether for fuck sakes...

You are dead right they need to change, they should evolve with society.

Oh boy, covering up is akin to slavery. Here we go. You know what else is a social norm? Washing your hands. Guess we should evolve that one too eh?

But honestly considering your explanation you stand the same for public nudity do you not?

No I don't stand the same for public nudity. I have at least a remedial education, there is a difference between the breast(that's on both men and women, the word is unisex) and the anal and perianal areas and penis and vaginal opens ...these differences are increased issues with human hygiene and pathogen transfer. The breast being exposed doesn't create health issues, nudity does.


Read a fucking book.

Ostroeuropa wrote:I am pro-nudism being legal.
I think it is a matter of free expression.

Clothing is a form of expression, and I am a proponent of free expression, as such, I cannot justify forced expression of any kind. Nudism is similar to the right to be silent. (Except broader and not strictly a legal thing.) Nobody should be able to compel expression.

BUT!!!!

There is another issue at stake here.
Unless those feminists and such arguing that breasts should be allowed are also, in general, pro-nudism, then what they are arguing is that breasts are not of a sexual nature.

This is fine.

But are they then prepared to say that someone who gropes breasts without permission has not committed sexual assault?

Because that's the conclusion you have to reach if you accept their reasoning.

I very much fucking doubt they are fine with this. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too.

Reasonable stance, which is what I was trying to ask in the OP most posts didnt try to address.

Yeah of course they have "the right to". Just like they have the right to expose their fingers, or men have the right to expose their jaws. I can't really see any problems with it aside from puritanism and sexism, which I would call problems anyway.

I strongly support this, just for lulz. Just imagine how distracted people would get across the board.

Can't wait to see my professors pause in the middle of a lecture to join up with the rest of the class at staring at... exposed chests...

But are they then prepared to say that someone who gropes breasts without permission has not committed sexual assault?

Because that's the conclusion you have to reach if you accept their reasoning.

I don't think it is.


For example forced kissing would fall under sexual assault, but that doesn't doesn't mean your mouth is a sex organ.

I wish everyone would just keep their clothes on in general.

If feminists have the right to go to topless, then they should stop complaining about man-spreading and all of the other usually irrelevant "issues" women face, such as their views on men holding the door, which is apparently now sexist.

Lordieth wrote:

Mefpan wrote:Well, shit, I hadn't taken into account that there are places where people tend to go topless. I guess beaches, public pools and areas like that would be okay. For some reason I've all but forgotten about areas like that and was thinking everyday life. Yay me.

That aside, everywhere other than areas where it's considered normal I'll admit it's a case of "ewww, newd peeps" for me.

Everyday life? Well, obviously not. I don't take my shirt off at work, or when I go shopping. Why should Women be able to behave any differently? In the same manner, however, where it is acceptable for men to take off their shirts, women should also be able to go topless.

I can agree with this. It is hypocritical to do otherwise, the law should apply to everyone equally even if it hurts.

Where I come from though it is considered inappropriate for men to go shirtless practically anywhere outside ones home, so this doesn't really apply in my area atleast. Male Toplessness is considered tasteless at best and completely inappropriate and lewd at worst, especially when children are present.

Thhey should, but in most places, they sadly don't. Thanks, hypersexualization of the female body!

Ekirg wrote:If feminists have the right to go to topless, then they should stop complaining about man-spreading and all of the other usually irrelevant "issues" women face, such as their views on men holding the door, which is apparently now sexist.

Deuxtete wrote:

Yorkvale wrote:
Oh boy, covering up is akin to slavery. Here we go. You know what else is a social norm? Washing your hands. Guess we should evolve that one too eh?

But honestly considering your explanation you stand the same for public nudity do you not?

No I don't stand the same for public nudity. I have at least a remedial education, there is a difference between the breast(that's on both men and women, the word is unisex) and the anal and perianal areas and penis and vaginal opens ...these differences are increased issues with human hygiene and pathogen transfer. The breast being exposed doesn't create health issues, nudity does.


Read a fucking book.

I've read several, sorry if they're not associated with science textbooks.

The point made is that hygiene is very much reinforced as a social norm and that doesn't make it innately bad I'm the same way covering up your boobs which are very much a sexual object and used in sexual activities frequently is also a social norm but that does not make the expectation to do so innately bad.

Vecherd wrote:Yeah of course they have "the right to". Just like they have the right to expose their fingers, or men have the right to expose their jaws. I can't really see any problems with it aside from puritanism and sexism, which I would call problems anyway.

in an anarcho-capitalist society communities will be able to set their own laws thus being able to curtail rights like penile flashing namaste verched-san