Was Rhodesia a good or a bad nation in your view?

[The Ridings of Yorkshire]

Originally viewtopic.php?f=20&t=348691&hilit=Rhodesia

it was once known as the breadbasket state of Africa with high standards of living and all the comforts of home for both blacks and whites in a land we now call Zimbabwe in light of recent events on the other side of the globe one question has arose and that is simply

was Rhodesia good or bad?

the answers to this question depend your politics and whether or not you have been brainwashed by the Communist Liberal media but I will listen to your opinions and show you the respect you deserve

I personally do not endorse racism or apartheid, but I have restarted this thread to creative a constructive (hopefully) discussion about Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, what is your opinion? We'd like to know, no, seriously, we do!
Hope everyone has a great time on this thread!

[Vashtanaraada]

Originally viewtopic.php?f=20&t=348691&hilit=Rhodesia

it was once known as the breadbasket state of Africa with high standards of living and all the comforts of home for both blacks and whites in a land we now call Zimbabwe in light of recent events on the other side of the globe one question has arose and that is simply

was Rhodesia good or bad?

the answers to this question depend your politics and whether or not you have been brainwashed by the Communist Liberal media but I will listen to your opinions and show you the respect you deserve

I personally do not endorse racism or apartheid, but I have restarted this thread to creative a constructive (hopefully) discussion about Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, what is your opinion? We'd like to know, no, seriously, we do!

As much a disgrace to the British Empire as any other part that suppressed and even killed majorities of populations just because they were of a differing ethnicity and culture. At least we had the right idea when Macmillan gave the Wind Of Change Speech.

[Colonial Rhodesia]

as a person with Right wing views and opinions I would generally say Rhodesia was one of the most successful of Britain's African colonies with modern Industry and a stable government which many African states lack both before and after Independence came after world war 2 ended in 1945.

however the British refused to see common sense in light of the fact that by granting Africans majority rule without proper training or skill in Government that once they left after independence the whole country would go to hell in a hand basket often resulting in the establishment of long term dictatorships and Communist states whereas in Rhodesia there was peace and prosperity along with a non Racist system of government which followed in the footsteps of their British kith and kin.

God Save Rhodesia!!!!

[Colonial Rhodesia]

Originally http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... t=Rhodesia

I personally do not endorse racism or apartheid, but I have restarted this thread to creative a constructive (hopefully) discussion about Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, what is your opinion? We'd like to know, no, seriously, we do!

As much a disgrace to the British Empire as any other part that suppressed and even killed majorities of populations just because they were of a differing ethnicity and culture. At least we had the right idea when Macmillan gave the Wind Of Change Speech.

the winds of change was a betrayal of the former empire in which during WW1 and WW2 millions of Rhodesians both black and white gave their lives for their kith and kin in Britain only to be payed back with no Independence for our Southern Rhodesia which unlike the rest of Africa was a land of true happiness regardless of color or race.

[Carrasastova]

I'm not too educated on the subject of Rhodesia, so I can't make any comments about Zimbabwe's history then. However, from what I hear about what goes on over there, I'm expecting that R. Mugabe is either doing his actions out of misguided social ideas, or is doing it out of racist spite, regardless if it is not in his country's long-term interest.

Some examples:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/af ... -1.2217360
http://www.rt.com/business/267244-zimba ... inflation/ (Yeah, Zimbabwe had it--and still does--pretty rough in the currency department. At least they're not Hungary)
http://www.theweek.co.uk/africa/61512/r ... e-dictator

[Pope Joan]

Rhodesia was evil for many reasons, including deliberate genocide.

http://www.herald.co.zw/849-reasons-why ... s-so-evil/

[Aggicificicerous]

Nice country if you were white. Otherwise, not so nice.

[Benuty]

I believe the Republic of Zimbabwe Rhodesia following the peace agreement between Ian Smith, and the rebels was indeed a good nation especially since it elected a black African president until foreign imperialists destroyed what true democracy there was there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe_Rhodesia

[Benuty]

Originally http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... t=Rhodesia

I personally do not endorse racism or apartheid, but I have restarted this thread to creative a constructive (hopefully) discussion about Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, what is your opinion? We'd like to know, no, seriously, we do!

As much a disgrace to the British Empire as any other part that suppressed and even killed majorities of populations just because they were of a differing ethnicity and culture. At least we had the right idea when Macmillan gave the Wind Of Change Speech.

Then Britain went back in, and ensured the doom of the populace once a madman was elected into power.

They already had a fairly elected President who represented the desire for peace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe- ... tion,_1979
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe_ ... e_Rhodesia

[L Ron Cupboard]

A little clarity on which Rhodesia and in what period is needed from the OP, otherwise it is a pointless question.

[Benuty]

A little clarity on which Rhodesia and in what period is needed from the OP, otherwise it is a pointless question.

Probably the one formed by the United Declaration of Independence (which lasted till 1979).

[Rhodesia]

Well, well, now isn't this just me all over.

Rhodesia wasn't perfect but it was far from the demon the modern world paints it as. Let's remember, the country was always going to return to majority rule. It was the pace of that change that was the sticking point. The U.K., U.S. and African nationalists wanted immediate and unequivocal majority rule; Smith argued that immediately setting the caged lion free would be disastrous and ruinous, to itself and others. Ultimately, one could argue he was proven right.

Let's be clear: there was never apartheid; never segregation. White and black children were taught and learned together; black and white families went to church together and were neighbours. White and black workers laboured alongside each other.

All that went to shit, however, during the Bush Wars. Then, every white person was viewed as some imperial oppressor, greedily hoarding land and money; every black person viewed as some communist guerrilla ready to steal and kill. Whose fault was that Bush War? Was is the African nationalists? Maybe the White minority government? Or maybe it was a government 7,500 km away interfering in a silly little colony it never really cared for.

You see, South Africa was always the favourite of the United Kingdom; the older child, adopted from those impoverished, boorish Dutch, who did nothing but fill it with ignorant farmers! The bastards! No, the British would treat South Africa right! It had diamonds, gold and all other manner of material wealth ready to tickle Her Maj's fancy back in London. South Africa came with bragging rights! It sat with India, Australia and Canada as jewels in that big old Imperial Crown!

When South Africa gave her Imperial masters the bird, London decided it really had no more interests in Africa. The winds of change were blowing – only because London lost its pride and joy, however. Therefore, Rhodesia went from obedient colony to disobedient dictatorship.

Rather than allow independence and majority rule to come naturally and gradually, London poured petrol on the flames of revolutionaries like Robert Mugabe.

Was London entirely to blame? Well, no. Rhodesia as it was in the 1960s could never – would never – have survived. It was always and inevitably to become a majority rule country. However, instead of becoming Botswana – a socially and economically well rounded country, leaps and bound ahead of the stereotypical failed African state – it became Zimbabwe, the very definition and byword of tyranny, failure and worse lost promise.

So my view: prior to the Bush Wars, Rhodesia had promise and potential. It was a good nation whether black or white. After the Bush Wars, it became a bad nation to be black in. After independence, it became a bad nation to be white in (or black and an opponent of Mugabe; lest we forget the Matabele genocide).

[Bas Tonal]

Agreed to the above poster. I had family in the Rhodesian army. The simple fact of the matter is that the Rhodesian Front government wasn't great, but it wasn't terribly bad either. There was a reason that many, many blacks volunteered for the Rhodesian Security Forces. That said, the above poster is not entirely accurate when he wrote that there was no apartheid. He isn't necessarily wrong either. It's that whites were Class A citizens while blacks were Class B. A white vote, for example, held more weight than a black vote. While the Rhodesian Front argued that this gave the white minority an equal standing in order to prevent their oppression, the simple fact is that it allowed perpetual dominance of the Rhodesian Front government, which was nominally a dictatorship masquerading as a democracy.

All the same, Rhodesia was economically self-sufficient for the most part, and had a pretty good economy for what it was. Now, the misbelief about it being a powerhouse economy is also misguided, most of the reason for Rhodesia's self-sufficiency was due to the agrarian nature of its economy. Most people were, by and large, self-sufficient. Consumerism suffered, especially during the latter years of the civil war, but many hardly noticed it because they did most of it themselves anyhow. They also had the benefit of partnership with South Africa which took some of the strain off the Rhodesians.

It's an interesting subject, and I wish I could return to my homeland. My best friend, a mixed race individual who's mother was white and father black, lived there in the aftermath. His father also fought with the Rhodesian Army, and has repeatedly stressed to me when I've talked about it that many blacks hated the guerrillas and communism. They were not oppressed nearly to the same degree that their cousins in South Africa were treated. So they had limited political freedom, so what? They were financially solid. Political freedom is really irrelevant when your lifestyle is good enough to compensate for lack of tangible voice. I tend to agree, though I suppose this comes from my position as a descendant of 'privileged' white English farmers in Rhodesian, and Afrikaner farmers in Bloemfontein.

[Ashworth-Attwater]

Rhodesia was quite possibly the most prosperous African country of its time and well on its way to an egalitarian society in which educated blacks and whites shared a role in government. It had the highest literacy rate of any African country, the lowest poverty rate among both blacks and whites and it did not have apartheid laws like South Africa did at the time, meaning that any black citizen with enough education could vote and take on government roles.

In my opinion, yes, Rhodesia was mostly a good country. However, the first years of Mugabe's Zimbabwe weren't bad either. He lifted many restrictions on trade and supported the free market, whites and blacks were still getting a good education, had good jobs and continued to make more food than the country could use. However, his buddies from the war days were dissatisfied with the status quo and demanded compensation for their efforts during the war. That's when Mugabe started expropriating farms and persecuting White Zimbabweans (and any other dissidents). A few decades later, Zimbabwe became what it is today.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Well, well, now isn't this just me all over.

Probably the most well researched, thought out, and unbiased post in defense of Rhodesia I've ever seen. I really have nothing to add. You win NS for the day.

[Fire-Nation]

Never heard of it.

[Benuty]

Never heard of it.

Yeah I can see why, you are too busy attacking the other nations in the great war to be worried about some other place. Also you going to kill any more Air Benders while you are at it? Because that whole siege of Ba Sing Se failed you know.

[Colonial Rhodesia]

I am ready for November 11th which just happens to be the 50th year of Rhodesian independence from Great Britain however I must say this could have been avoided if Harold Wilson actually listened to common sense instead he poured gasoline into the flames of Rhodesia and literally brought it on himself and so on November 11th let us all who support Rhodesia fly the old Green and White in honor of 16 of those 50 glorious years.

cheers To Rhodesia may she live to fight another day!!!!

[Camelza]

Rhodesia had a despicable, racist government that only cared about its citizens if their skin was white. Zimbabwe's government is as bad and genocidal.
It's like comparing KKK to the NBPP/

[MERIZoC]

Horribly racist and violent.

[Benuty]

Rhodesia had a despicable, racist government that only cared about its citizens if their skin was white. Zimbabwe's government is as bad and genocidal.
It's like comparing KKK to the NBPP/

So nothing about the middle government/country which existed between Rhodesia, and Zimbabwe?

[Camelza]

Rhodesia had a despicable, racist government that only cared about its citizens if their skin was white. Zimbabwe's government is as bad and genocidal.
It's like comparing KKK to the NBPP/

So nothing about the middle government/country which existed between Rhodesia, and Zimbabwe?

What is there to be said about Zimbabwe-Rhodesia? It was a good-hearted but failed attempt at avoiding the inevitable.

[Sebtopiaris]

-nvm-

[Yuketobaniac unions]

Rhodesia Is supported by the yuke government and supplied with weapons and food.

[Benxboro]

I think the original thing was bad, but from my understanding Rhodesia unilaterally became independent under a multiracial government. Then the Brits retook it, and somehow Mugabe came to power.