Perhaps but,to close this topic and revert back to the colonial wars
You must see that Portugal and Spain led the Old World in to a age of global imperialism, international trade and colonialism
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by Calimera II » Fri May 29, 2015 4:44 pm
Migas999 wrote:Meryuma wrote:
Historical convention from a time when historians only acknowledged certain (European) perspectives.
Perhaps but,to close this topic and revert back to the colonial wars
You must see that Portugal and Spain led the Old World in to a age of global imperialism, international trade and colonialism
by Ashworth-Attwater » Fri May 29, 2015 5:06 pm
Napkiraly wrote:Aaaand hate to break this to you, but the majority of human history, especially the most important bits - yeah happening in the Old World. Hence, using the term discovering the Americas.
by Ashworth-Attwater » Fri May 29, 2015 5:09 pm
Meryuma wrote:But "first to discover" has different implications.
by New Chalcedon » Fri May 29, 2015 5:23 pm
by Lydenburg » Fri May 29, 2015 6:46 pm
by The Carlisle » Fri May 29, 2015 7:03 pm
by Rio Cana » Fri May 29, 2015 7:08 pm
Napkiraly wrote:Frasers wrote:
1)no that would be the native north americans
2)no nobody knows where columbus was from
1) We're talking about the discovery of the Americas by the Old World (Europe, Middle East, North Africa, Asia). Everyone essentially knew India, China, etc were real, just didn't know a lot about them. Apart from the Norse, no one knew what lay beyond. Aaaand hate to break this to you, but the majority of human history, especially the most important bits - yeah happening in the Old World. Hence, using the term discovering the Americas.
2) He was from Genoa.
by Rio Cana » Fri May 29, 2015 7:23 pm
The Carlisle wrote:New Chalcedon wrote:
Actually, they stole most of the rest of the world. The Spanish and Portuguese American colonies were never actually grabbed by Britain
Well... No. Most weren't. But there were small territories. Belize, Jamaica, Guyana, and Bluefields. This is mostly going off of Spanish claims, not settler history. Belize was settled by English and Scots peoples, but it was still a Spanish claim.
So going off of the Treaty, Britain did in fact steal territory claimed by Spain.
Also to note, Britain did fight Spain for Jamaica.
by The Carlisle » Fri May 29, 2015 7:34 pm
by The Carlisle » Fri May 29, 2015 7:37 pm
by Libreng » Fri May 29, 2015 8:08 pm
by Lydenburg » Fri May 29, 2015 8:17 pm
Libreng wrote:I could've forgiven the west for its imperialism if it had conducted a sane withdrawal of its colonies. Britain should have responsibly divided the new countries to reflect ethnic boundaries, for example. They should have infused democracy into the culture over a long period to ensure stability.
Of course, one cannot be so idealistic when the entire operation was conducted with a lust for money.
by Arumdaum » Fri May 29, 2015 8:30 pm
by New Werpland » Fri May 29, 2015 9:15 pm
Geilinor wrote:Portugal and the colonies would have been better off without the wars, Portugal should have focused on itself and the colonies needed a chance to develop.
by Arumdaum » Fri May 29, 2015 9:27 pm
by New Werpland » Fri May 29, 2015 9:31 pm
by Lydenburg » Fri May 29, 2015 10:07 pm
by Napkiraly » Sat May 30, 2015 3:44 am
Then those people haven't opened a scholarly book.Rio Cana wrote:Napkiraly wrote:1) We're talking about the discovery of the Americas by the Old World (Europe, Middle East, North Africa, Asia). Everyone essentially knew India, China, etc were real, just didn't know a lot about them. Apart from the Norse, no one knew what lay beyond. Aaaand hate to break this to you, but the majority of human history, especially the most important bits - yeah happening in the Old World. Hence, using the term discovering the Americas.
2) He was from Genoa.
Some say he was not from present day Italy or Portugal but Catalan. They say he gave many new discoveries Catalan names. Supposedly, he had been a pirate and had taken some Spanish ships. So being Spanish was a cover story.
by Migas999 » Sat May 30, 2015 4:32 am
Lydenburg wrote:Libreng wrote:I could've forgiven the west for its imperialism if it had conducted a sane withdrawal of its colonies. Britain should have responsibly divided the new countries to reflect ethnic boundaries, for example. They should have infused democracy into the culture over a long period to ensure stability.
Of course, one cannot be so idealistic when the entire operation was conducted with a lust for money.
In Portugal's case it bit off a wee more than it could chew. Even if they'd legitimately attempted to develop their territories and educate and train the populace to prepare them for independence, they couldn't. Not enough money.
That is what happens when a miniscule backwater tries to administer an empire the approximate size of France, Germany, Italy, and Spain combined.
by Lydenburg » Sat May 30, 2015 9:20 am
Migas999 wrote:Lydenburg wrote:
In Portugal's case it bit off a wee more than it could chew. Even if they'd legitimately attempted to develop their territories and educate and train the populace to prepare them for independence, they couldn't. Not enough money.
That is what happens when a miniscule backwater tries to administer an empire the approximate size of France, Germany, Italy, and Spain combined.
A miniscule backwater? you referring to Portugal?
by Rio Cana » Sat May 30, 2015 11:56 am
Libreng wrote:I could've forgiven the west for its imperialism if it had conducted a sane withdrawal of its colonies. Britain should have responsibly divided the new countries to reflect ethnic boundaries, for example. They should have infused democracy into the culture over a long period to ensure stability.
Of course, one cannot be so idealistic when the entire operation was conducted with a lust for money.
by Rio Cana » Sat May 30, 2015 12:02 pm
by Migas999 » Sat May 30, 2015 12:56 pm
Rio Cana wrote:Libreng wrote:I could've forgiven the west for its imperialism if it had conducted a sane withdrawal of its colonies. Britain should have responsibly divided the new countries to reflect ethnic boundaries, for example. They should have infused democracy into the culture over a long period to ensure stability.
Of course, one cannot be so idealistic when the entire operation was conducted with a lust for money.
Unlike some of the other European powers, Portugal and Spain introduced the religious component into there expansion since it was official policy. Today, Timor leste and Angola are majority Catholic. Mozambique is 53% Christian. Out of that 53% around 28% are Catholic. Latin America is also mostly majority Catholic.
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