Portuguese Colonial Wars

[Ludania]

Definitely, but surely they would have noticed it was harming them after fighting for over a decade?

[Napkiraly]

and even some historians believe that the credit of discovering North America

1)no that would be the native north americans

I explain Cristovao Colombo was not in fact Spanish but really a portuguese man in service of the Spanish Crown after having been turned down by the Portuguese Crown

2)no nobody knows where columbus was from

1) We're talking about the discovery of the Americas by the Old World (Europe, Middle East, North Africa, Asia). Everyone essentially knew India, China, etc were real, just didn't know a lot about them. Apart from the Norse, no one knew what lay beyond. Aaaand hate to break this to you, but the majority of human history, especially the most important bits - yeah happening in the Old World. Hence, using the term discovering the Americas.

2) He was from Genoa.

[Frasers]

You know very well what he means.

yes but it is awful phrasing and completely discounts the existence of the indigenous folk who inhabited the lands in the first place

[Napkiraly]

1) I meant the first European and world country to launch the discovery age, and the conquest of foreign lands with the conquest of Ceuta

2)Some historians believe he was portuguese

3)Native Brasilians already lived there so they didn´t "discover" it, and Portugal was the first country to establish a trading outpost in India

why didn't you just say these things then if they're what you meant.

Because most people know what he meant off the bat.

[Migas999]

You know very well what he means.

yes but it is awful phrasing and completely discounts the existence of the indigenous folk who inhabited the lands in the first place

We´re talking about the old world countries here

[Migas999]

why didn't you just say these things then if they're what you meant.

Because most people know what he meant off the bat.

Also thank you, the phrasing might be due to the fact that english is my second language

[Calimera II]

You know very well what he means.

yes but it is awful phrasing and completely discounts the existence of the indigenous folk who inhabited the lands in the first place

We would be very limited vocally if we were to be 100% politically correct.

[Migas999]

1)no that would be the native north americans



2)no nobody knows where columbus was from

1) We're talking about the discovery of the Americas by the Old World (Europe, Middle East, North Africa, Asia). Everyone essentially knew India, China, etc were real, just didn't know a lot about them. Apart from the Norse, no one knew what lay beyond. Aaaand hate to break this to you, but the majority of human history, especially the most important bits - yeah happening in the Old World. Hence, using the term discovering the Americas.

2) He was from Genoa.

And the first Old World countries to reach those places were Portugal and Spain

[Napkiraly]

1) We're talking about the discovery of the Americas by the Old World (Europe, Middle East, North Africa, Asia). Everyone essentially knew India, China, etc were real, just didn't know a lot about them. Apart from the Norse, no one knew what lay beyond. Aaaand hate to break this to you, but the majority of human history, especially the most important bits - yeah happening in the Old World. Hence, using the term discovering the Americas.

2) He was from Genoa.

And the first Old World countries to reach those places were Portugal and Spain

Norse got you beat I'm afraid.

[Calimera II]

And the first Old World countries to reach those places were Portugal and Spain

Norse got you beat I'm afraid.

Spain and Portugal didn't discover Canada.

[Migas999]

And the first Old World countries to reach those places were Portugal and Spain

Norse got you beat I'm afraid.

Well I knew that about the Norse yes I accept that but I mean the first countries to make claims, colonies, trading outposts, etc...

[Migas999]

Norse got you beat I'm afraid.

Spain and Portugal didn't discover Canada.

Didn´t say Canada but what is now the Caribbieans, US, Brasil and all of Central and South America

[Calimera II]

Migas999's point is that Portugal and Spain ''discovered'' large parts of the new world.
Portuguese discoveries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_discoveries

Spain and Portugal didn't discover Canada.

Didn´t say Canada but what is now the Caribbieans, US, Brasil and all of Central and South America

Yes, I know.

[Napkiraly]

Norse got you beat I'm afraid.

Spain and Portugal didn't discover Canada.

Pretty sure he's talking about the New World in general, not specific spots.

[Calimera II]

Spain and Portugal didn't discover Canada.

Pretty sure he's talking about the New World in general, not specific spots.

I don't think he is. He is talking about large parts of the new world. Not about every piece of land.

[Migas999]

Pretty sure he's talking about the New World in general, not specific spots.

I don't think he is. He is talking about large parts of the new world. Not about every piece of land.

Not every piece of land but large parts of it
Example: The Americas except Canada

[Napkiraly]

I don't think he is. He is talking about large parts of the new world. Not about every piece of land.

Not every piece of land but large parts of it
Example: The Americas except Canada

And the Northern United States. And large parts of the interior of the United States. And the Falklands.


Anyway, back to colonial wars. In hindsight not worth fighting, but political ramifications for Portugal ended up being rather positive. Unfortunate that such strife had to occur to spur that change.

[Calimera II]

Not every piece of land but large parts of it
Example: The Americas except Canada

And the Northern United States. And large parts of the interior of the United States. And the Falklands.


Anyway, back to colonial wars. In hindsight not worth fighting, but political ramifications for Portugal ended up being rather positive. Unfortunate that such strife had to occur to spur that change.

I believe Migas999 is talking about coastal areas: the first one who discovered the existence of a piece of land.

[Migas999]

Not every piece of land but large parts of it
Example: The Americas except Canada

And the Northern United States. And large parts of the interior of the United States. And the Falklands.


Anyway, back to colonial wars. In hindsight not worth fighting, but political ramifications for Portugal ended up being rather positive. Unfortunate that such strife had to occur to spur that change.

The revolution was not as one-tracked and simple has many people here in portugal believe, after the revolution the political situation was quite unstable, including attempted military coups by pro-communists parts of the armed forces, but after such instability Portugal emerged a democracy and that´s whats most positive about this

[Migas999]

And the Northern United States. And large parts of the interior of the United States. And the Falklands.


Anyway, back to colonial wars. In hindsight not worth fighting, but political ramifications for Portugal ended up being rather positive. Unfortunate that such strife had to occur to spur that change.

I believe Migas999 is talking about coastal areas: the first one who discovered the existence of a piece of land.

Yes, I am

[Meryuma]

Portugal discovered some stuff, but let's not overcredit ourselves...

Portugal and Spain discovered most of what was discovered during the age of discovery

Other, non-European peoples discovered most of the shaded areas there first. The map I posted shows all the land which Europeans during the Age of Discovery discovered first, i.e. were the first inhabitants of.

[Migas999]

Portugal and Spain discovered most of what was discovered during the age of discovery

Other, non-European peoples discovered most of the shaded areas there first. The map I posted shows all the land which Europeans during the Age of Discovery discovered first, i.e. were the first inhabitants of.

But I´m not talking about being the first people to live there, I´m talking about the first to establish colonies, trading outposts, etc... and fact is Portugal was the first to claim Brasil and was the first to establish a trading outpost in India, just as Spain was the first to claim, let´s say, what is today Cuba

[Meryuma]

Aaaand hate to break this to you, but the majority of human history, especially the most important bits - yeah happening in the Old World.

Never mind the invention of corn/maize and public education, the independent development of the number zero, writing and the concept of agriculture, the establishment and collapse of the Classic Mayan civilization, the formation of a state which many believe to have influenced the US Constitution, the building of earthern structures larger than the Great Pyramids of Giza, or the founding and expansion of one of the world's largest cities during the 1500s... it's not like those Injuns had a history or anything.

Other, non-European peoples discovered most of the shaded areas there first. The map I posted shows all the land which Europeans during the Age of Discovery discovered first, i.e. were the first inhabitants of.

But I´m not talking about being the first people to live there, I´m talking about the first to establish colonies, trading outposts, etc... and fact is Portugal was the first to claim Brasil and was the first to establish a trading outpost in India, just as Spain was the first to claim, let´s say, what is today Cuba

"First to establish a trade post in" is very different from "first to discover".

Did the Portuguese begin intercontinental trade and global imperialism? Sure, along with Spain. But "first to discover" has different implications.

[Migas999]

Aaaand hate to break this to you, but the majority of human history, especially the most important bits - yeah happening in the Old World.

Never mind the invention of corn/maize and public education, the independent development of the number zero, writing and the concept of agriculture, the establishment and collapse of the Classic Mayan civilization, the formation of a state which many believe to have influenced the US Constitution, the building of earthern structures larger than the Great Pyramids of Giza, or the founding and expansion of one of the world's largest cities during the 1500s... it's not like those Injuns had a history or anything.

But I´m not talking about being the first people to live there, I´m talking about the first to establish colonies, trading outposts, etc... and fact is Portugal was the first to claim Brasil and was the first to establish a trading outpost in India, just as Spain was the first to claim, let´s say, what is today Cuba

"First to establish a trade post in" is very different from "first to discover".

Did the Portuguese begin intercontinental trade and global imperialism? Sure, along with Spain. But "first to discover" has different implications.

Then why is it named the age of discovery which everyone agrees was launched by Portugal and Spain?
Can´t deny those parts of history

[Meryuma]

Never mind the invention of corn/maize and public education, the independent development of the number zero, writing and the concept of agriculture, the establishment and collapse of the Classic Mayan civilization, the formation of a state which many believe to have influenced the US Constitution, the building of earthern structures larger than the Great Pyramids of Giza, or the founding and expansion of one of the world's largest cities during the 1500s... it's not like those Injuns had a history or anything.



"First to establish a trade post in" is very different from "first to discover".

Did the Portuguese begin intercontinental trade and global imperialism? Sure, along with Spain. But "first to discover" has different implications.

Then why is it named the age of discovery which everyone agrees was launched by Portugal and Spain?

Historical convention from a time when historians only acknowledged certain (European) perspectives.