#Mansplaining The Statue

[Llamalandia]

Ok without reading anything about this statue, basing my opinion only on looking at it? WTF. What is wrong with this? It is a man talking to a woman. IS that sexist now. WTF!? What the heck is going on here. What possible manspalining could be needed? How could anyone misconstrue this as in anyway offensive??? I mean, if she was drunk or looked scared or something it might register as kinda creepy. But literally how could anyone be stupid enough to find this alone offensive? Is there more to this story? Is there a plaque along with it saying wives submit to your husbands or something? WTF.

The more to the story is that it's a joke. Not offensive, or sexist. Funny.

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Lol, phallic architecture. So what would be the opposite of that? Georgia O'keefe-itecture.

Yonic architecture.

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Honestly for some reason that did make laugh. But yeah, IDK I think people take the whole manspalining thing more seriously, because it is so stupid and so overused. That's just my own personal mansplation though for what it's worth. But yeah, there is no such thing as freedom from offense, nor freedom from stupidity unfortunately. Plus mansplaining the statue, didn't make me laugh.

My guess is that people are losing their shit because feminists are doing a thing. Doesn't matter what it is. Any thing will do.

With respect is a joke really a joke if no one laughs? I mean, it's not funny if you have to explain that you were kidding. Plus, the problem is that most people were able to see this as a plausibly serious feminist position. This clearly shows that modern feminism is itself the real joke in the minds of most.

[Cenetra]

C'mon, this is Ostro we're talking about. They'll jump at any chance to make fun of those wacky feminazis.

How long before someone calls S&M footage "Concrete Evidence of Systemic Misandry"?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "never" since I don't think I've seen a "sex-negative" MRA.

On the other hand, there are plenty of feminists saying that BDSM is always abusive towards women:

http://feministcurrent.com/11718/bdsm-f ... es-part-2/
https://liberationcollective.wordpress. ... nst-women/
http://liberalfeministtropes.blogspot.c ... ments.html
http://radfem-answers.tumblr.com/post/1 ... roblematic
http://killallkinksters.tumblr.com/post ... pport-rape

Okay yeah, most of these are loonies on Tumblr, but ideas like "simulated violence in bed legitimizes rape" and "under a Patriarchy a woman's consent can never be consider informed and non-coerced" seem to be pretty common in "sex-negative" feminism.

[Imperializt Russia]

Sex-negative feminists, like TERFs, are ones that don't gain a lot of ground for the fact that their ideas don't make a lot of sense.

[Ostroeuropa]

Sex-negative feminists, like TERFs, are ones that don't gain a lot of ground for the fact that their ideas don't make a lot of sense.

Uh, they kind of do have a lot of political influence. Disproportionate to their popularity, sure, but saying they don't gain a lot of ground isn't really true. Think about all the anti-porn legislation in the UK.

[Imperializt Russia]

Sex-negative feminists, like TERFs, are ones that don't gain a lot of ground for the fact that their ideas don't make a lot of sense.

Uh, they kind of do have a lot of political influence. Disproportionate to their popularity, sure, but saying they don't gain a lot of ground isn't really true. Think about all the anti-porn legislation in the UK.

That's because of conservatives, not feminism.

[Souseiseki]

Sex-negative feminists, like TERFs, are ones that don't gain a lot of ground for the fact that their ideas don't make a lot of sense.

Uh, they kind of do have a lot of political influence. Disproportionate to their popularity, sure, but saying they don't gain a lot of ground isn't really true. Think about all the anti-porn legislation in the UK.

i saved a link to feminists against censorship specifically for you but i'm at my sisters so i don't have it.

also lol the tories famous feminists (don't think even think bring up margaret "i owe nothing to feminism" thatcher)

[Ostroeuropa]

Uh, they kind of do have a lot of political influence. Disproportionate to their popularity, sure, but saying they don't gain a lot of ground isn't really true. Think about all the anti-porn legislation in the UK.

That's because of conservatives, not feminism.

The Labour party is also supportive of it.

[Toastinia]

I am most confused by this, the statues don't seem to be capable of speech.

Perhaps, we should ask their opinions before accusing them of anything.

[Imperializt Russia]

That's because of conservatives, not feminism.

The Labour party is also supportive of it.

Because the Labour party doesn't know what it is anymore, and copies the conservatives in a feeble effort to try and gain votes.
If they pander to Conservative voter values, they believe they will poach Tory voters.

I have no idea why they think this, because A, it's idiotic and B, it's cost them two elections in a row.

[Ostroeuropa]

The Labour party is also supportive of it.

Because the Labour party doesn't know what it is anymore, and copies the conservatives in a feeble effort to try and gain votes.
If they pander to Conservative voter values, they believe they will poach Tory voters.

I have no idea why they think this, because A, it's idiotic and B, it's cost them two elections in a row.

They are negative about porn explicitly from a "womens rights" platform. So are the tories also womens rights voters? Because both of these things can't be true.

Either the tories are feminist too, or Labour isn't anti-porn to copy the tories, but rather, anti-porn to pander to feminists.

[Imperializt Russia]

The Tories claim that withdrawing from the ECHR will improve our rights in the UK.
If the Tories use the word "rights" to justify anything, stop listening.

[Llamalandia]

The Labour party is also supportive of it.

Because the Labour party doesn't know what it is anymore, and copies the conservatives in a feeble effort to try and gain votes.
If they pander to Conservative voter values, they believe they will poach Tory voters.

I have no idea why they think this, because A, it's idiotic and B, it's cost them two elections in a row.

I have to agree with that. Surprise Milliband didn't get shoved out years ago, or rather I can't believe people made him leader in the first place.

[Natapoc]

Yes if one were to create a sculpture of mansplaining this would be it.

I don't understand why that upsets so many of you though. No one is saying the artists initial intent was to express mansplaining. It just works. I don't see the controversy.

Because radical feminists take something that had no intention of being sexist and, indeed, is not sexist in the eyes of almost everyone else, and turn it into some kind of symbol of systemic sexism?

No that's the way art works. Every meaning is a legitimate meaning. This sculpture simply conveys that meaning very well.

I don't see why that upsets NSG so much. The only people i've seen freaking out about the sculpture are people on NSG in this thread. Are feminists not allowed to make light hearted jokes or to humorously interpret sculpture in the way they see fit?

[Llamalandia]

Because radical feminists take something that had no intention of being sexist and, indeed, is not sexist in the eyes of almost everyone else, and turn it into some kind of symbol of systemic sexism?

No that's the way art works. Every meaning is a legitimate meaning. This sculpture simply conveys that meaning very well.

I don't see why that upsets NSG so much. The only people i've seen freaking out about the sculpture are people on NSG in this thread. Are feminists not allowed to make light hearted jokes or to humorously interpret sculpture in the way they see fit?

Ok, but how was anyone supposed to know it was a joke? I mean I know twitter is limited to 140 characters but come on throw a jk on the end. If it is not inherently funny at least give us a marker to indicate you are not being serious.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Has it occurred to you guys that the original tweet was poking fun at the statue rather than being seriously angry and maybe you don't need to get your panties in a twist?

Meh, that just seems to indicate how ridiculous the feminist arguments generally are. I mean, given that basically no one here realized it was intended as a joke, shows that there is almost no difference between what people perceive to be the genuine feminist position and a caricature thereof.

Or it could show that MRAs in particular have gotten so worked up over minor and even nonexistent issues that they don't understand jokes.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

No that's the way art works. Every meaning is a legitimate meaning. This sculpture simply conveys that meaning very well.

I don't see why that upsets NSG so much. The only people i've seen freaking out about the sculpture are people on NSG in this thread. Are feminists not allowed to make light hearted jokes or to humorously interpret sculpture in the way they see fit?

Ok, but how was anyone supposed to know it was a joke? I mean I know twitter is limited to 140 characters but come on throw a jk on the end. If it is not inherently funny at least give us a marker to indicate you are not being serious.

In order to understand a joke, one must first possess a sense of humor that isn't affected by hypersensitivity.

[Llamalandia]

Meh, that just seems to indicate how ridiculous the feminist arguments generally are. I mean, given that basically no one here realized it was intended as a joke, shows that there is almost no difference between what people perceive to be the genuine feminist position and a caricature thereof.

Or it could show that MRAs in particular have gotten so worked up over minor and even nonexistent issues that they don't understand jokes.

When first reading it did you realize it was a joke? Honestly? I mean, sure when the story is explained ok, I get what they are doing, though at the same time, really, I mean it is nice to show that you aren't humorless and can make light of your own movement now and then, but at least make it clear that it is a joke. This just wasn't clear to me right away. Nor do I think a whole lot of feminists got the joke either, heck a few on nsg have even tried seriously defending it.

[Llamalandia]

Ok, but how was anyone supposed to know it was a joke? I mean I know twitter is limited to 140 characters but come on throw a jk on the end. If it is not inherently funny at least give us a marker to indicate you are not being serious.

In order to understand a joke, one must first possess a sense of humor that isn't affected by hypersensitivity.

True. Though, the joke also has to be funny. I mean I don't laugh at every rape joke I hear only the funny ones. Likewise, there are some funny jokes with a feminist bent that have made me laugh before. this just wasn't one of them, it sounded to much like other serious comments I have heard IRL from so-called feminists.

[Zakuvia]

Having seen the statue, I roll my eyes and walk away. Feminists don't give half a damn about a statue like that. Edgy internet trolls trying to goad easily offended, emotionally insecure people on the internet with a feminist hashtag on their blog do. Some might see that as a No-True-Scotsman fallacy, but this is just taking the piss out of actual feminist dialogue.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Or it could show that MRAs in particular have gotten so worked up over minor and even nonexistent issues that they don't understand jokes.

When first reading it did you realize it was a joke? Honestly? I mean, sure when the story is explained ok, I get what they are doing, though at the same time, really, I mean it is nice to show that you aren't humorless and can make light of your own movement now and then, but at least make it clear that it is a joke. This just wasn't clear to me right away. Nor do I think a whole lot of feminists got the joke either, heck a few on nsg have even tried seriously defending it.

When I read the OP, no, I didn't get that it was a joke.

When I read the article, I got that it was a joke.

The idea that a couple of somewhat ridiculous self-described feminists were defending what should be an obvious joke means that the joke isn't obvious is a perfect example of the composition fallacy, which both sides in this debate have indulged in shamelessly.

[Llamalandia]

When first reading it did you realize it was a joke? Honestly? I mean, sure when the story is explained ok, I get what they are doing, though at the same time, really, I mean it is nice to show that you aren't humorless and can make light of your own movement now and then, but at least make it clear that it is a joke. This just wasn't clear to me right away. Nor do I think a whole lot of feminists got the joke either, heck a few on nsg have even tried seriously defending it.

When I read the OP, no, I didn't get that it was a joke.

When I read the article, I got that it was a joke.

The idea that a couple of somewhat ridiculous self-described feminists were defending what should be an obvious joke means that the joke isn't obvious is a perfect example of the composition fallacy, which both sides in this debate have indulged in shamelessly.

I think the problem isn't that it was just one or two but rather that it got retweeted and became a large enough issue to make it to NSG. Not to say, every feminist believed it mind you, but it certainly sounded like a plausibly serious tweet to me on first glance.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

In order to understand a joke, one must first possess a sense of humor that isn't affected by hypersensitivity.

True. Though, the joke also has to be funny. I mean I don't laugh at every rape joke I hear only the funny ones. Likewise, there are some funny jokes with a feminist bent that have made me laugh before. this just wasn't one of them, it sounded to much like other serious comments I have heard IRL from so-called feminists.

Certainly. However, take this into account: I was once a religious studies major, with an interest in divinity school. For my major, i obviously had to learn about the histories and practices of different religions, and particularly about different Christian sects. During this time, I was constantly surrounded by arcane issues of theology, Christology, teleology, eschatology, and the nitty-gritty of church governance. I also discovered jokes made about these issues that would have either been far too obscure for most people to understand, or even possibly insulting to those who didn't understand the context. It's the same thing here, with this woman obviously being well aware of some of the odd extremes that a few of her fellow feminists will go to.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

When I read the OP, no, I didn't get that it was a joke.

When I read the article, I got that it was a joke.

The idea that a couple of somewhat ridiculous self-described feminists were defending what should be an obvious joke means that the joke isn't obvious is a perfect example of the composition fallacy, which both sides in this debate have indulged in shamelessly.

I think the problem isn't that it was just one or two but rather that it got retweeted and became a large enough issue to make it to NSG. Not to say, every feminist believed it mind you, but it certainly sounded like a plausibly serious tweet to me on first glance.

Yes. Now, does that say more about feminism, or about how you choose to see feminism?

[Llamalandia]

I think the problem isn't that it was just one or two but rather that it got retweeted and became a large enough issue to make it to NSG. Not to say, every feminist believed it mind you, but it certainly sounded like a plausibly serious tweet to me on first glance.

Yes. Now, does that say more about feminism, or about how you choose to see feminism?

Well, I see feminism how it is presented to me in real life and on the internet. It doesn't have anything to do with choice. Though, if I were to choose, I would try and filter out all the bullshit feminism (most of tumblr) and focus on the real feminism in the world like malala and what not.

[Llamalandia]

True. Though, the joke also has to be funny. I mean I don't laugh at every rape joke I hear only the funny ones. Likewise, there are some funny jokes with a feminist bent that have made me laugh before. this just wasn't one of them, it sounded to much like other serious comments I have heard IRL from so-called feminists.

Certainly. However, take this into account: I was once a religious studies major, with an interest in divinity school. For my major, i obviously had to learn about the histories and practices of different religions, and particularly about different Christian sects. During this time, I was constantly surrounded by arcane issues of theology, Christology, teleology, eschatology, and the nitty-gritty of church governance. I also discovered jokes made about these issues that would have either been far too obscure for most people to understand, or even possibly insulting to those who didn't understand the context. It's the same thing here, with this woman obviously being well aware of some of the odd extremes that a few of her fellow feminists will go to.

True, but I am at least somewhat acquainted with modern feminism already. Even in that context I didn't laugh.