NATION

PASSWORD

Analyzing a "Feminist thought" quiz

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Is this right? Are these scales anti-sexist or sexist?

The quiz is sorting the categories of feminist well...
17
16%
The quiz misrepresents some types of feminism...
27
25%
Things are complicated on that first question...
4
4%
... the scales describe feminism as anti-sexist.
4
4%
... the scales, except liberal feminism show more sexism than anti-sexism.
34
32%
... all of the scale, including liberal feminism, show more sexism than anti-sexism.
8
7%
... I have a more complicated answer to the second question.
13
12%
 
Total votes : 107

User avatar
Tahar Joblis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9290
Founded: Antiquity
Left-wing Utopia

Analyzing a "Feminist thought" quiz

Postby Tahar Joblis » Thu May 28, 2015 4:00 am

While looking at the (apparently ill-fated) "Feminist" thread, I took note of a "feminist perspectives" quiz.

If you like, pause right now in reading this thread and take it, before you bias your results. The numbers are on a 10-50 scale if you answer all questions.
This scored me as decisively "liberal feminist," and decisively not a conservative or radical feminist. The interesting thing about that is that the overwhelming majority posting in that thread (including both "feminists" and "non-feminists") scored higher matches for "conservative perspective" than I did:

Highfort, United Marxist Nations, Reddogkeno101, Dakini, Caltarania, Neutraligon, Nyoronet, Risottia, Val Halla, The Blaatschapen, Hirota, Nazi Flower Power, Nierra, Dumb Ideologies, The United Colonies of Earth, Kelinfort, Torisakia, Mysterious Stranger, Merizoc, Korouse, Ava Ire, Prussia-Steinbach, The Lone Alliance, Teutonic Germany

A few scored about the same as I did on that category, or a little lower (10-12; I "neutraled" the language question for a 12):
Tiltjuice, Kumuri, Mysterious Stranger, Salandriagado, The New Sea Territory, Arumdaum, Chessmistress, Olivaero, Kincoboh, Sorgan, Natapoc

One person posted a significantly lower score:
Ostroeuropa (1)

Odd on a scale of 10-50? Yes, but the implementation is worth noting. This score can be achieved by outright refusing to answer questions. If that score isn't a typo, Ostroeuropa posted "disagree" for one of the ten "conservative" questions, and did not answer the other nine.

Now, the more interesting thing to look at are the test questions itself. I went back through, and picked "agree" for all the sexist answers and "neutral" on the rest. All scores increased, oddly enough (I found out why later). And the "conservative" view was in second place behind "Cultural Feminist" at that point. Almost every single "cultural feminist" item was sexist, in other words. So now I got curious, and dug up the paper the scale was taken from. (It's referenced on the page, just look at the footnote.)
1. Given the way that men are, women have a responsibility not to arouse them by their dress and actions. (Sexist.)
4. Women should not be direct participants in government because they are too emotional. (Sexist.)
13. A man’s first responsibility is to obtain economic success, while his wife should care for the family’s needs. (Sexist. But keep this in mind for later.)
17. Homosexuals need to be rehabilitated into normal members of society. (Disagreeable.)
23. The breakdown of the traditional family structure is responsible for the evils in our society. (Disagreeable.)
36. It is a man’s right and duty to maintain order in his family by whatever means necessary. (Sexist.)
38. The world is a more attractive place because women pay attention to their appearance and smiles. (Sexist.)
47. Women should not be assertive like men because men are the natural leaders on earth. (Sexist.)
53. Using “he” for “he or she” is convenient and harmless to men and women. (Understandable position.)
59. Heterosexuality is the only natural sexual preference. (Delusional.)

Lots of sexism and anti-gay values expressed here, along with one delusional item.
Liberal Feminist Perspective
5. Whether one chooses a traditional or alternative family form should be a matter of personal choice. (I agree!)
6. People should define their marriage and family roles in ways that make them feel most comfortable. (Well, as long as they're not being mean to their partners / family.)
7. The government is responsible for making sure that all women receive an equal chance at education and employment. (True, but men also.)
22. The availability of adequate child care is central to a woman’s right to work outside the home. (Sexist. Men can also have this problem; and not all women choose to have children.)
24. Homosexuality is not a moral issue, but rather a question of liberty and freedom of expression. (I disagree, though in a very qualified fashion: I would say we have a moral imperative to recognize homosexuality as part of the normal harmless range of human sexuality, and it is also a question of personal liberty.)
27. Social change for sexual equality will best come about by acting through federal, state, and local government. (This has happened. It was very effective.)
33. Legislation is the best means to ensure a woman’s choice of whether or not to have an abortion. (True: The legislative arena is what impacts public policy.)
42. Women should try to influence legislation in order to gain the right to make their own decisions and choices. (Very ambiguous statement. Also, what about men?)
52. Women should have the freedom to sell their sexual services. (I agree. Also, men.)
60. Men need to be liberated from oppressive sex role stereotypes as much as women do. (I agree in an unqualified way.)

Liberal feminism is, in this quiz's typology, the only kind of feminism that is more anti-sexist than sexist. The liberal feminist perspective expressed here tends to be concerned with women's issues, sometimes misconstruing issues common to men and women as issues that really only matter to women. In terms of this quiz, this is the only score that will correlate to genuine anti-sexist sentiment in any meaningful way. Strikingly, it's also the score that most people did well on.

Most scored lower than I did (44, for all my quibbling and qualifiers), and in the entire ill-fated feminism thread, only two posters - Mysterious Stranger (feminist) and Teutonic Germany (nonfeminist) scored under the baseline of 30 (29 in both cases), possibly by skipping a relevant question.
2. Pornography exploits female sexuality and degrades all women. (Delusional and sexist.)
15. Using “man” to mean both men and women is one of many ways sexist language destroys women’s existence. (Hyperbolic, but almost a simple reversal of #53.)
16. Sex role stereotpes are only one symptom of the larger system of patriarchal power, which is the true source of women’s subordination. (Delusional.)
18. The workplace is organized around men’s physical, economic, and sexual oppression of women. (Delusional.)
19. Men’s control over women forces women to be the primary caretakers of children. (Delusional and sexist.)
29. Men use abortion laws and reproductive technology to control women’s lives. (Delusional and sexist.)
34. Men prevent women from becoming political leaders through their control of economic and political institutions. (Delusional and sexist.)
46. Marriage is a perfect example of men’s physical, economic, and sexual oppression of women. (Delusional and sexist.)
48. Romantic love brainwashes women and forms the basis for their subordination. (Delusional and sexist.)
55. Rape is ultimately a powerful tool that keeps women in their place, subservient to and terrorized by men. (Delusional and sexist.)

The radical feminist items express paranoia about men as a class. #2 and #15 assign hyperbolic importance to censorship of the media. The rest cast men as a demonic class of beings which actively seek to subjugate women. Most of them are both delusional and sexist.

10. Capitalism and sexism are primarily responsible for the increased divorce rate and general breakdown of families. (Delusion.)
20. Making women economically dependent on men is capitalism’s subtle way of encouraging heterosexual relationships. (Delusion and sexism.)
25. A socialist restructuring of businesses and institutions is necessary for women and people of color to assume equal leadership with White men. (Sexism and racism.)
31. Romantic love supports capitalism by influencing women to place men’s emotional and economic needs first. (Delusional and sexist.)
39. The way to eliminate prostitution is to make women economically equal to men. (Delusional and sexist.)
41. Capitalism hinders a poor woman’s chance to obtain adequate prenatal medical care or an abortion. (A quite reasonable statement. Granted, capitalism hinders all poor peoples' ability to obtain all medical care.)
45. It is the capitalist system which forces women to be responsible for child care. (Wrong, if understandably so.)
54. Religion is like a drug to people and is used to pacify women and other oppressed groups. (Perfectly reasonable statement ... if you believe women oppressed.)
56. Capitalism forces most women to wear feminine clothes to keep a job. (Base rate problem.)
58. The personalities and behaviors of ”women” and “men” in our society have developed to fit the needs of advanced capitalism. (Perfectly sound, use of scare quotes is odd.)

The weird thing for me is that as a socialist, I theoretically ought to find these items sympathetic. Instead, a lot of them come across as a mixture of delusion and sexism. Here we also see a base rate problem: Men have problems too.
9. Prostitution grows out of the male culture of violence and male values of social control. (Sexist.)
11. Replacing the word “God with “Goddess” will remind people that the deity is not male. (Sexist.)
14. Men should follow women’s lead in religious matters, because women have a higher regard love and peace than men. (Sexist.)
28. Putting women in positions of political power would bring about new systems of government that promote peace. (Sexist and delusional, as we've already seen women as political leaders on the world stage.)
30. Traditional notions of romantic love should be replaced with ideas based on feminine values of kindness and concern for all people. (Sexist.)
32. By not using sexist and violent language, we can encourage peaceful social change. (Not sexist.)
35. Beauty is feeling one’s womanhood through peace, caring, and nonviolence. (Sexist.)
37. Women’s experience in life’s realities of cleaning, feeding people, caring for babies, etc., makes their vision of reality clearer than men’s. (Sexist.)
44. Rape is best stopped by replacing the current male-oriented culture of violence with an alternative culture based on more gentle, womanly qualities. (Sexist.)
50. Bringing more women into male-dominated professions would make the professions less cutthroat and competitive. (Sexist.)

The "cultural feminist" items consisted almost entirely of claiming that women are possessed of superior qualities. It's the "women are wonderful" tropes all over the place.
3. In education and legislation to stop rape, ethnicity and race must be treated sensitively to ensure that women of color are protected equally. (Half right. Legislation does not need to single out race, that's a bad idea. Also, men are being ignored as rape victims, and this is a problem being ignored.)
8. Racism and sexism make double the oppression for women of color in the work environment. (Reasonable if you accept the premise of women being oppressed.)
12. Women of color have less legal and social service protection from being battered than White women have. (True! But also men.)
21. Women of color are oppressed by White standards of beauty. (It's complicated, but I can partially agree with this.)
26. Being put on a pedestal, which White women have protested, is a luxury that women of color have not had. (An oversimplification, but I think considerably closer to reality than delusion.)
40. Antigay and racist prejudice act together to make it more difficult for gay male and lesbian people of color to maintain relationships. (True!)
43. In rape programs and workshops, not enough attention has been paid to the special needs of women of color. (True! But also men.)
49. Discrimination in the workplace is worse for women of color than for all men and White women. (About half true.)
51. Much of the talk about power for women overlooks the need to empower people of all races and colors first. (I find this an eminently reasonable statement)
57. The tradition of Afro-American women who are strong family leaders has strengthened the Afro-American community as a whole. (Delusional and sexist. Reverse of pro-patriarchy familial structure conservatism, and similar to the "women political leaders are superior" routine from the cultural feminist scale.)

Interestingly enough, because I am anti-racist, I find a lot of the items in the "Women of Color Feminist Perspective" subscale agreeable. Many of them ignore that men face problems that women also face (not surprisingly, most statements are framed as if women are the only people with problems). This list is more concerned with racism than sexism, and contains several items outright critical of [white] feminist priorities.

In an environment where feminism is purported to be anti-sexism... this scale sorts out the typology of feminists into one variety of feminism that is more anti-sexist than sexist, one that's more about racism than sexism, and three that are very clearly more sexist than anti-sexist.

Thoughts? Opinions? Scores? Musings?
Last edited by Tahar Joblis on Thu May 28, 2015 4:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
-The Unified Earth Governments-
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12215
Founded: Aug 25, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby -The Unified Earth Governments- » Thu May 28, 2015 4:02 am

Wait...

It does from sexist to anti sexist or something?

I mean beyond being an eye score I had no idea what I was doing.
FactbookHistoryColoniesEmbassy Program V.IIUNSC Navy (WIP)InfantryAmmo Mods
/// A.N.N. \\\
News - 10/27/2558: Deglassing of Reach is going smoother than expected. | First prototype laser rifle is beginning experimentation. | The Sangheili Civil War is officially over, Arbiter Thel'Vadam and his Swords of Sanghelios have successfully eliminated remaining Covenant cells on Sanghelios. | President Ruth Charet to hold press meeting within the hour on the end of the Sangheili Civil War. | The Citadel Council official introduces the Unggoy as a member of the Citadel.

The Most Important Issue Result - "Robosexual marriages are increasingly common."

User avatar
The Blaatschapen
Technical Moderator
 
Posts: 63226
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Thu May 28, 2015 4:11 am

The scale wasn't 10-50.

I scored a 9 on the Socialist Feminist scale. Which means that I'm not a socialist, but I knew that already 8)

I did not vote on a couple of the religious questions{I do not consider the concepts to be valid ones}, and the Women of Colour questions I voted neutral, since I have no clue, and there was quite some USA-centric view in those.
The Blaatschapen should resign

User avatar
Kingdomkungfu
Attaché
 
Posts: 93
Founded: Apr 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kingdomkungfu » Thu May 28, 2015 4:13 am

I think the guy is saying through some testing he found the questions that correlated with each branch or group of feminism. Through his findings he notes that each group had a specific thing to it such as

In an environment where feminism is purported to be anti-sexism... this scale sorts out the typology of feminists into one variety of feminism that is more anti-sexist than sexist, one that's more about racism than sexism, and three that are very clearly more sexist than anti-sexist.


Noting that one group is about racism more than anything else. Only one of the feminist groups is anti-sexist. The rest are sexist in the nature of the questions.

This is directed at "United Earth Governments". Moderator ninja'd the spot above me so I wanted to clarify who I was talking to.
Last edited by Kingdomkungfu on Thu May 28, 2015 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Chessmistress
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5269
Founded: Mar 16, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Chessmistress » Thu May 28, 2015 4:14 am

I already wrote that it must be something wrong within the test: I scored 10 at Conservative, it's impossibile since these were my answers

1. Given the way that men are, women have a responsibility not to arouse them by their dress and actions. (Sexist.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
4. Women should not be direct participants in government because they are too emotional. (Sexist.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
13. A man’s first responsibility is to obtain economic success, while his wife should care for the family’s needs. (Sexist. But keep this in mind for later.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
17. Homosexuals need to be rehabilitated into normal members of society. (Disagreeable.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
23. The breakdown of the traditional family structure is responsible for the evils in our society. (Disagreeable.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
36. It is a man’s right and duty to maintain order in his family by whatever means necessary. (Sexist.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
38. The world is a more attractive place because women pay attention to their appearance and smiles. (Sexist.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
47. Women should not be assertive like men because men are the natural leaders on earth. (Sexist.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
53. Using “he” for “he or she” is convenient and harmless to men and women. (Understandable position.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
59. Heterosexuality is the only natural sexual preference. (Delusional.) TOTALLY DISAGREE

So it's impossible I get 10.
Something is wrong in such test, though it performed well giving me 50 on Radical Feminism, 46 on Cultural Feminism, 46 on Socialist Feminism and 42 on Women of Color. Still, even 46 on Liberal Feminism sounds quite weird to me.
OOC:
Radical Feminist, caring about the oppressed gender, that's why I have a strong sense of justice.

PRO:
Radical Feminism (proudly SWERF - moderately TERF),
Gender abolitionism,
birth control and population control,
affirmative ongoing VERBAL consent,
death penalty for rapists.

AGAINST:
patriarchy,
pornography,
heteronormativity,
domestic violence and femicide.


Favorite Quotes: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=ches ... /id=403173

User avatar
Tahar Joblis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9290
Founded: Antiquity
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Tahar Joblis » Thu May 28, 2015 4:15 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:The scale wasn't 10-50.

I scored a 9 on the Socialist Feminist scale. Which means that I'm not a socialist, but I knew that already 8)

I did not vote on a couple of the religious questions{I do not consider the concepts to be valid ones}, and the Women of Colour questions I voted neutral, since I have no clue, and there was quite some USA-centric view in those.

It's 10-50 if you answer all questions, by design. (Unless someone coded incorrectly.) This is not particularly good in a format that permits abstention.

If you skipped the religion questions, that includes one of the Socialist Feminist items; so if you disagreed on the remaining 9, you would score 9. ;)

User avatar
Tahar Joblis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9290
Founded: Antiquity
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Tahar Joblis » Thu May 28, 2015 4:16 am

Chessmistress wrote:I already wrote that it must be something wrong within the test: I scored 10 at Conservative, it's impossibile since these were my answers

As I said, if you answer all questions, the scores range from 10-50. You get one point for clicking "totally disagree" on each of the 10 "conservative" questions.

User avatar
Teemant
Senator
 
Posts: 4130
Founded: Oct 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Teemant » Thu May 28, 2015 4:16 am

I have no idea what these results mean but I'm going to post them anyways:

Perspective Score
Conservative 30
Liberal feminist 27
Radical feminist 12
Women of Color 12
Socialist feminist 11
Cultural feminist 11

Maybe someone can enlighten me about this?
Last edited by Teemant on Thu May 28, 2015 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Eesti
Latvija
Lietuva
Polska

User avatar
Tahar Joblis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9290
Founded: Antiquity
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Tahar Joblis » Thu May 28, 2015 4:19 am

Kingdomkungfu wrote:I think the guy is saying through some testing he found the questions that correlated with each branch or group of feminism. Through his findings he notes that each group had a specific thing to it such as

In an environment where feminism is purported to be anti-sexism... this scale sorts out the typology of feminists into one variety of feminism that is more anti-sexist than sexist, one that's more about racism than sexism, and three that are very clearly more sexist than anti-sexist.


Noting that one group is about racism more than anything else. Only one of the feminist groups is anti-sexist. The rest are sexist in the nature of the questions.

This is directed at "United Earth Governments". Moderator ninja'd the spot above me so I wanted to clarify who I was talking to.

I'll clarify that I didn't come up with the questions or assign them to groups. That was from:

Henley, N.; Meng, K.; O'Brien, D.; McCarthy, W.; Sockloskie, R. (1998). "Developing a Scale to Measure the Diversity of Feminist Attitudes". Psychology of Women Quarterly, 22(2), 317-348.


The online quiz is an implementation of the scale in that paper.

My comments are that 3 of those "feminist" subscales are, in fact, measuring clusters of sexist attitudes, rather than anti-sexist attitudes. So if the quiz works, more or less... then "cultural feminist," "radical feminist," and "socialist feminist" refer to sexist rather than anti-sexist beliefs.

User avatar
Kingdomkungfu
Attaché
 
Posts: 93
Founded: Apr 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kingdomkungfu » Thu May 28, 2015 4:22 am

I do have to admit. A lot of these question seem very sexist and focus on those aspects more than being ani-sexist. This might be from the issues concerning these specific groups have to do with sexism?

User avatar
Chessmistress
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5269
Founded: Mar 16, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Chessmistress » Thu May 28, 2015 4:23 am

Tahar Joblis wrote:
Chessmistress wrote:I already wrote that it must be something wrong within the test: I scored 10 at Conservative, it's impossibile since these were my answers

As I said, if you answer all questions, the scores range from 10-50. You get one point for clicking "totally disagree" on each of the 10 "conservative" questions.


Still, 46 on "Liberal Feminism" is really weird for me. That is a misrepresentation of "Liberal Feminism" - I guess that, in example, the quiz when it comes to pornography is wrong:

2. Pornography exploits female sexuality and degrades all women.


I totally agreed here. But such question is not just only about Radical Feminism but also about Liberal Feminism: indeed a liberal "feminist" would totally disagree.
OOC:
Radical Feminist, caring about the oppressed gender, that's why I have a strong sense of justice.

PRO:
Radical Feminism (proudly SWERF - moderately TERF),
Gender abolitionism,
birth control and population control,
affirmative ongoing VERBAL consent,
death penalty for rapists.

AGAINST:
patriarchy,
pornography,
heteronormativity,
domestic violence and femicide.


Favorite Quotes: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=ches ... /id=403173

User avatar
Vashtanaraada
Minister
 
Posts: 2682
Founded: Nov 27, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Vashtanaraada » Thu May 28, 2015 4:23 am

Why can't people just keep to the Wiki definition of Marxist / Socialist Feminism eh?
19 Year Old Male, British (Scouser), Bassist, plays Heavy Metal + Hard Rock
Apatheist, Ex-Smoker and Ex-Stoner, Bi-Curious, ENFP Personality Type
University Student and Member of The Labour Party (United Kingdom)
-9.13 Economic
-6.00 Social
FOR - Democratic Socialism/ Classical Marxism/ Trade-Unionism/ Pro-Choice/ Anti-Nationalism/ Revolution/ Direct Democracy/ Internationalism/ Soft Drugs/ L.G.B.T Rights/ Ecologism/ Gender Equality.

AGAINST - Fascism/ Capitalism/ Conservatism/ Militarism/ Racism/ Homophobia/ Oligarchy/ Monarchy/ Hierarchy/ Austerity/ Dictatorships/ Leninism/ Privatisation/ Stereotypes/ Nuclear Weaponry.

User avatar
Tahar Joblis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9290
Founded: Antiquity
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Tahar Joblis » Thu May 28, 2015 4:25 am

Teemant wrote:I have no idea what these results mean but I'm going to post them anyways:

Perspective Score
Conservative 30
Liberal feminist 27
Radical feminist 12
Women of Color 12
Socialist feminist 11
Cultural feminist 11

Maybe someone can enlighten me about this?

30 is a "neutral" score w.r.t. "Conservative Perspective." That suggests you are somewhat traditionalist. 27 is an unusually low (but close to "neutral") score w.r.t. "Liberal Feminism." It suggests you're mostly ambivalent about the issue of sexism. Your other four subscores are almost minimum, which suggests you really disagree with most feminist rhetoric.

User avatar
Formicashig
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 132
Founded: Mar 20, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Formicashig » Thu May 28, 2015 4:25 am

Liberal feminist 38
Women of Color 23
Socialist feminist 21
Conservative 17
Radical feminist 17
Cultural feminist 15

Results honestly surprised me - I usually self identify as a conservative, although I'll suppose liberal feminism could possibly describe some of my views.
IIwiki
Social Authoritarian: 2.87
Economic Right: 6.5
I am a right social moderate.
Right: 4.85
Authoritarian: 0.27
Neoconservative: 7.24
Cultural conservative: 2.12
Pro: Liberal-conservatism, One-nation Toryism, Ordoliberalism, Free Trade, Compassionate conservatism, Cameronism, Tory Party
Anti: Socialism, fascism, political correctness, hardcore feminism, Labour Party, EU, Protectionism, Political and religious extremism

This nation is currently undergoing renovations. Please bear with us.

User avatar
Tahar Joblis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9290
Founded: Antiquity
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Tahar Joblis » Thu May 28, 2015 4:28 am

Formicashig wrote:Liberal feminist 38
Women of Color 23
Socialist feminist 21
Conservative 17
Radical feminist 17
Cultural feminist 15

Results honestly surprised me - I usually self identify as a conservative, although I'll suppose liberal feminism could possibly describe some of my views.

The quiz defines anti-sexism as liberal feminism.

TBQH, liberal feminism is not the dominant visible strain at present. The liberal feminism mission (legislative reform) is essentially complete in the Western world; and has been mostly complete in the Western world since the 1970s.

I suspect the "liberal feminism" items were mostly adapted from another older source; the paper introducing this scale takes the perspective that non-liberal forms of feminism were inadequately represented by previous feminist-belief scales.

User avatar
Sebtopiaris
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10250
Founded: Jun 26, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Sebtopiaris » Thu May 28, 2015 4:28 am

Chessmistress wrote:I already wrote that it must be something wrong within the test: I scored 10 at Conservative, it's impossibile since these were my answers

1. Given the way that men are, women have a responsibility not to arouse them by their dress and actions. (Sexist.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
4. Women should not be direct participants in government because they are too emotional. (Sexist.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
13. A man’s first responsibility is to obtain economic success, while his wife should care for the family’s needs. (Sexist. But keep this in mind for later.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
17. Homosexuals need to be rehabilitated into normal members of society. (Disagreeable.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
23. The breakdown of the traditional family structure is responsible for the evils in our society. (Disagreeable.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
36. It is a man’s right and duty to maintain order in his family by whatever means necessary. (Sexist.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
38. The world is a more attractive place because women pay attention to their appearance and smiles. (Sexist.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
47. Women should not be assertive like men because men are the natural leaders on earth. (Sexist.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
53. Using “he” for “he or she” is convenient and harmless to men and women. (Understandable position.) TOTALLY DISAGREE
59. Heterosexuality is the only natural sexual preference. (Delusional.) TOTALLY DISAGREE

So it's impossible I get 10.
Something is wrong in such test, though it performed well giving me 50 on Radical Feminism, 46 on Cultural Feminism, 46 on Socialist Feminism and 42 on Women of Color. Still, even 46 on Liberal Feminism sounds quite weird to me.

I think in order to read your score accurately, you have to swap "women" and "men" and change a few words.
Sebtopiaris is a culturally and ethnically Mediterranean, single-party democratic socialist state in the New Warsaw Pact with a population of 39 million Sebtopiariots. Sebtopiaris and its IC actions do not represent my personal beliefs, and Sebtopiaris's overview page does not represent much at all.

User avatar
Chessmistress
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5269
Founded: Mar 16, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Chessmistress » Thu May 28, 2015 4:30 am

Vashtanaraada wrote:Why can't people just keep to the Wiki definition of Marxist / Socialist Feminism eh?


I don't think there's such thing as Marxist / Socialist Feminism: marxism and socialism are about economy, feminism is about gender equality.
It's like "Ecologist Feminism" and "Anti-specist Feminism": I reject these definitions (even if I really think that, just only due our gender role - that I hope will soon disappear - most women really have a better ecological attitude than most males, on average and on the whole).
OOC:
Radical Feminist, caring about the oppressed gender, that's why I have a strong sense of justice.

PRO:
Radical Feminism (proudly SWERF - moderately TERF),
Gender abolitionism,
birth control and population control,
affirmative ongoing VERBAL consent,
death penalty for rapists.

AGAINST:
patriarchy,
pornography,
heteronormativity,
domestic violence and femicide.


Favorite Quotes: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=ches ... /id=403173

User avatar
Formicashig
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 132
Founded: Mar 20, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Formicashig » Thu May 28, 2015 4:34 am

Tahar Joblis wrote:
Formicashig wrote:Liberal feminist 38
Women of Color 23
Socialist feminist 21
Conservative 17
Radical feminist 17
Cultural feminist 15

Results honestly surprised me - I usually self identify as a conservative, although I'll suppose liberal feminism could possibly describe some of my views.

The quiz defines anti-sexism as liberal feminism.

TBQH, liberal feminism is not the dominant visible strain at present. The liberal feminism mission (legislative reform) is essentially complete in the Western world; and has been mostly complete in the Western world since the 1970s.

I suspect the "liberal feminism" items were mostly adapted from another older source; the paper introducing this scale takes the perspective that non-liberal forms of feminism were inadequately represented by previous feminist-belief scales.


That's the impression I get too. I really like your commentary on the quiz.
IIwiki
Social Authoritarian: 2.87
Economic Right: 6.5
I am a right social moderate.
Right: 4.85
Authoritarian: 0.27
Neoconservative: 7.24
Cultural conservative: 2.12
Pro: Liberal-conservatism, One-nation Toryism, Ordoliberalism, Free Trade, Compassionate conservatism, Cameronism, Tory Party
Anti: Socialism, fascism, political correctness, hardcore feminism, Labour Party, EU, Protectionism, Political and religious extremism

This nation is currently undergoing renovations. Please bear with us.

User avatar
Teemant
Senator
 
Posts: 4130
Founded: Oct 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Teemant » Thu May 28, 2015 4:36 am

Tahar Joblis wrote:
Teemant wrote:I have no idea what these results mean but I'm going to post them anyways:

Perspective Score
Conservative 30
Liberal feminist 27
Radical feminist 12
Women of Color 12
Socialist feminist 11
Cultural feminist 11

Maybe someone can enlighten me about this?

30 is a "neutral" score w.r.t. "Conservative Perspective." That suggests you are somewhat traditionalist. 27 is an unusually low (but close to "neutral") score w.r.t. "Liberal Feminism." It suggests you're mostly ambivalent about the issue of sexism. Your other four subscores are almost minimum, which suggests you really disagree with most feminist rhetoric.


Thank you for clarifying it for me.
Eesti
Latvija
Lietuva
Polska

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58536
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu May 28, 2015 4:37 am

It's probably a typo if you're right about it being 10-50.
Though i'm not sure you are.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Thu May 28, 2015 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Vashtanaraada
Minister
 
Posts: 2682
Founded: Nov 27, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Vashtanaraada » Thu May 28, 2015 4:41 am

Chessmistress wrote:
Vashtanaraada wrote:Why can't people just keep to the Wiki definition of Marxist / Socialist Feminism eh?


I don't think there's such thing as Marxist / Socialist Feminism: marxism and socialism are about economy, feminism is about gender equality.
It's like "Ecologist Feminism" and "Anti-specist Feminism": I reject these definitions (even if I really think that, just only due our gender role - that I hope will soon disappear - most women really have a better ecological attitude than most males, on average and on the whole).



WOAHHHHHHHHH

So just because we socialist feminists say women's oppression is down to the capitalistic economic system means TO YOU that we don't accept that women are oppressed?

Erm, wrong.

We just have different reasoning through Marxist theory.

I suggest you read this before you basically say I'm not against social, economic or political inequality for women or men, or anyone of any or no gender. Comprende? Please go over the definitions of the ideologies you just named by the way; it's like you forgot what they are and decided to reduce them to nothing. People have DIED for those ideologies.


http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Das_Kapital
Last edited by Vashtanaraada on Thu May 28, 2015 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
19 Year Old Male, British (Scouser), Bassist, plays Heavy Metal + Hard Rock
Apatheist, Ex-Smoker and Ex-Stoner, Bi-Curious, ENFP Personality Type
University Student and Member of The Labour Party (United Kingdom)
-9.13 Economic
-6.00 Social
FOR - Democratic Socialism/ Classical Marxism/ Trade-Unionism/ Pro-Choice/ Anti-Nationalism/ Revolution/ Direct Democracy/ Internationalism/ Soft Drugs/ L.G.B.T Rights/ Ecologism/ Gender Equality.

AGAINST - Fascism/ Capitalism/ Conservatism/ Militarism/ Racism/ Homophobia/ Oligarchy/ Monarchy/ Hierarchy/ Austerity/ Dictatorships/ Leninism/ Privatisation/ Stereotypes/ Nuclear Weaponry.

User avatar
Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45984
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Thu May 28, 2015 4:43 am

Cross-posting my results from the other thread...

Liberal feminist 50
Women of Color 35
Socialist feminist 18
Conservative 14
Cultural feminist 13
Radical feminist 10

The only type of feminist I consider myself is a transfeminist because I'm not a masochist; to my mind this is the only perspective that properly captures the complex nature of gender and particularly the distinction and relative independence between gender roles and gender identity. Other perspectives tend to err either towards a patronizing gender abolitionism that doesn't recognise the central importance of gender identity to a lot of people's lived experience or a naïve essentialism that posits that biology or some nebulous and illusory unified "female" or "male" upbringing dictates how people behave and see themselves, plopping out identikit "individuals" perfectly fitting a given mould. I don't like to be patronized, called deluded, a liar or an invader.

I am glad if the scale for those who answered all the questions is 10-50 as it would mean that I have not a single radical feminist bone in my body and won't have to start rejecting limbs and hacking them off with a rusty billhook.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
★彡 Professional pessimist. Reactionary socialist and gamer liberationist. Coffee addict. Fun at parties 彡★
Freedom is when people agree with you, and the more people you can force to act like they agree the freer society is
You are the trolley problem's conductor. You could stop the train in time but you do not. Nobody knows you're part of the equation. You satisfy your bloodlust and get away with it every time

User avatar
Australian rePublic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27180
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Australian rePublic » Thu May 28, 2015 4:45 am

Whathas sexuality got todo with feminism?
Hard-Core Centrist. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
All in-character posts are fictional and have no actual connection to any real governments
You don't appreciate the good police officers until you've lived amongst the dregs of society and/or had them as customers
From Greek ancestry Orthodox Christian
Issues and WA Proposals Written By Me |Issue Ideas You Can Steal
I want to commission infrastructure in Australia in real life, if you can help me, please telegram me. I am dead serious

User avatar
Chessmistress
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5269
Founded: Mar 16, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Chessmistress » Thu May 28, 2015 4:53 am

Sebtopiaris wrote:I think in order to read your score accurately, you have to swap "women" and "men" and change a few words.


I'm not afraid to try.
Let's try.

1. Given the way that women are, men have a responsibility not to arouse them by their dress and actions. RIDICOLOUS, UNRELATED TO REAL WORLD
4. Men should not be direct participants in government because they are too violent. (I suppose it's the correct word) MEN ARE NOT BIOLOGICALLY VIOLENT. JUST ONLY THE TRADITIONAL IDEA OF "MACHIST" MASCULINITY, THAT IS STILL TAUGHT TO THEM, CAN LED TO VIOLENCE
13. A woman’s first responsibility is to obtain economic success, while her husband should care for the family’s needs. TOTALLY DISAGREE
17. Heterosexuals need to be rehabilitated into normal members of society. MEH, NO. BUT I THINK HETERONORMATIVITY IS REALLY HARMFUL. THE VERY IDEA OF "REHABILITATION" IS HORRIBLE AND TOTALLY WRONG, AND I SAY IT AS BISEXUAL WOMAN, 4.5 ON THE KINSEY SCALE, NOT 6
23. The breakdown of the traditional family structure is responsible for the good in our society. MEH, IT DEPENDS WHAT MEANS "TRADITIONAL": IF IT MEANS "SUBJUGATION OF WOMEN" THEN "YES", OTHERWISE "NO"
36. It is a woman’s right and duty to maintain order in her family by whatever means necessary. TOTALLY DISAGREE
38. The world would a more attractive place if men would pay more attention to their appearance and smiles. OKAY, I ADMIT I TOTALLY AGREE ON THAT
47. Men should not be assertive because women are the natural leaders on earth. DISAGREE, even if not totally - I just think men should be a little less assertive and women a little more, on average
53. Using “she” for “he or she” is convenient and harmless to men and women. AGREE, that would be a good lesson for some entitled men, but still absolutely harmless
59. Homosexuality is the only natural sexual preference. TOTALLY DISAGREE. Personally I think there's no such thing like "heterosexuality" and "homosexuality" and all people ranges from 1 to 5 on Kinsey Scale, and maybe even just only from 2 to 4. That's why I think humanity would really benefit from a total elimination of the whole concept of "gender"
Last edited by Chessmistress on Thu May 28, 2015 4:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
OOC:
Radical Feminist, caring about the oppressed gender, that's why I have a strong sense of justice.

PRO:
Radical Feminism (proudly SWERF - moderately TERF),
Gender abolitionism,
birth control and population control,
affirmative ongoing VERBAL consent,
death penalty for rapists.

AGAINST:
patriarchy,
pornography,
heteronormativity,
domestic violence and femicide.


Favorite Quotes: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=ches ... /id=403173

User avatar
The Grim Reaper
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10526
Founded: Oct 08, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Grim Reaper » Thu May 28, 2015 4:58 am

Chessmistress wrote:
Tahar Joblis wrote:As I said, if you answer all questions, the scores range from 10-50. You get one point for clicking "totally disagree" on each of the 10 "conservative" questions.


Still, 46 on "Liberal Feminism" is really weird for me. That is a misrepresentation of "Liberal Feminism" - I guess that, in example, the quiz when it comes to pornography is wrong:

2. Pornography exploits female sexuality and degrades all women.


I totally agreed here. But such question is not just only about Radical Feminism but also about Liberal Feminism: indeed a liberal "feminist" would totally disagree.


The quiz is pretty bad, speaking purely from a technical perspective.

Questions probably only affect one of the scores, at a guess.

As Tahar has already pointed out, how they handle points is weird. A lot of the questions people skipped should have been answered at neutral, which I assume would add three points to their score. For people like Blaat, who rejected the questions on religion out of hand, and people like me, as I am an anarchist and therefore found questions like the one regarding women and legislation (I don't believe ANYONE should try to affect change through legislation), that inflates our score somewhat. As a result, people would have had odd things like Blaat - Blaat got 9 on Conservative when he would have gotten 12 had he answered the quiz 'properly' (i.e. responding to every question, and using the neutral option - with the assumption that 'neutral' adds 3).

My highest scores were 36, for Women of Colour and Liberal Feminism. Lowest was for conservative.

Liberal feminist 36
Women of Color 36
Socialist feminist 24
Radical feminist 22
Cultural feminist 18
Conservative 14

Improving the quiz would require, as has already been suggested, adding 'baseline', control questions, and measuring the discrepancies between paired questions instead of the absolute score as is currently scored.
Last edited by The Grim Reaper on Thu May 28, 2015 5:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
If I can't play bass, I don't want to be part of your revolution.
Melbourne, Australia

A & Ω

Is "not a blood diamond" a high enough bar for a wedding ring? Artificial gemstones are better-looking, more ethical, and made out of PURE SCIENCE™.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Almonaster Nuevo, Ancientania, Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, Big Eyed Animation, Dimetrodon Empire, Dumb Ideologies, Ethel mermania, Experina, Floofybit, Google Adsense [Bot], Ifreann, Ineva, Kreushia, Page, Shearoa, Shrillland, Singaporen Empire, Skiva, Soviet Haaregrad, The Black Forrest, The Vooperian Union, Tungstan, Umeria, Xoshen

Advertisement

Remove ads