2015 UK Politics Megathread

[Olivaero]

Not as important as if the conservatives fuck up.

Macmillan did once say "events dear boy", after the recent world market wobble, another major event could happen to undermine this current government.

Indeed. Or there could be an enviromental catastrophe or a unpopular conflict or really anything. Operation Yew Tree could become too present for the conservatives liking really anything could happen which is of course why it's important corbyn gets in despite his "un-electability" if he's leader of the opposition and major public backlash is brewing against the government he will benefit as leader of the opposition it doesn't really matter what his views are.

[Irona]

Macmillan did once say "events dear boy", after the recent world market wobble, another major event could happen to undermine this current government.

Indeed. Or there could be an enviromental catastrophe or a unpopular conflict or really anything. Operation Yew Tree could become too present for the conservatives liking really anything could happen which is of course why it's important corbyn gets in despite his "un-electability" if he's leader of the opposition and major public backlash is brewing against the government he will benefit as leader of the opposition it doesn't really matter what his views are.

Electing a leader on the hope of a catastrophe really isn't the best strategy for labour. What you call the conservatives 'fucking up' really hasn't damaged their electability. I vote lib dem, I don't like the conservatives but right now labours in a much much bigger hole and it's getting deeper

[Angleter]

I appreciate this is the last thing I could do to help their cause, but I'm beginning to sympathise with Brownites and Blairites who've devoted, in many cases, decades of their lives to the Labour Party, only to have a mass of people who've only been members (if they even have become full members) since last month - many of them having supported some other party until that point - telling them they're 'RED TORIES' and a 'virus' that needs to be 'purged' from their own party.

Dave Ward is entitled to his free speech and dedicated himself to the Labour movement for a long time. And out of well over 100,000 members joining for 3 pounds, how many of them is 'many of them having supported some other party until that point?' No many, unless you think TUSC, SPEW, LU are swarming with members. It should be a principle of a party that describes itself as 'democratic socialism' (the Tories do not describe themselves as this so obviously not obliged to be democratic), to actually conduct itself democratically, that means including the minority, not a majority of majority of ever decreasing circles, that's how we end up with a Stalin, or Blair without the torture, executions, etc.

Of course Dave Ward's entitled to his freedom of speech. I was using his 'virus' comment as an example of some of the bile that many Corbynites - including many who haven't dedicated themselves to the Labour movement, or the Labour Party, for very long at all - have been directing at Blairites and Brownites. As for people who used to support ('support' =/= 'be a member of') other parties, the Greens alone received over a million votes at the last election. I don't necessarily believe that a majority of the new members or 'registered supporters' (for Corbyn or otherwise) voted for someone else (or nobody) in May, but they're certainly a factor, and they're certainly among the voices calling for a 'purge' of the Blairites and Brownites.

Does conducting itself democratically extend to Blairites?

[The Matthew Islands]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... eston.html

Oh Jeremy... politics r hard.

[Irona]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11833264/Jeremy-Corbyns-Falklands-plan-tantamount-to-surrender-to-Argentina-warns-wounded-veteran-Simon-Weston.html

Oh Jeremy... politics r hard.

This stuff is why I could never support Corbyn, I like a good deal of his domestic policy's but his foreign ones are terrifying.

[Imperializt Russia]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11833264/Jeremy-Corbyns-Falklands-plan-tantamount-to-surrender-to-Argentina-warns-wounded-veteran-Simon-Weston.html

Oh Jeremy... politics r hard.

"Why don't we reach a dialogue instead of spending more and more money on arms"
This seems to imply that the Falklands is a cataclysmic drain on military resources. It's a handful of troops, a handful of aircraft and every so often a sub or a destroyer nearby.

[The Huskar Social Union]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11833264/Jeremy-Corbyns-Falklands-plan-tantamount-to-surrender-to-Argentina-warns-wounded-veteran-Simon-Weston.html

Oh Jeremy... politics r hard.

"Why don't we reach a dialogue instead of spending more and more money on arms"
This seems to imply that the Falklands is a cataclysmic drain on military resources. It's a handful of troops, a handful of aircraft and every so often a sub or a destroyer nearby.

Yeah isn't there like less than 200 military personnel or something in the Falklands?

See ive not really drawn up a full opinion on Corbyn yet, but this is just.. stupid.

[Imperializt Russia]

I thought it was nearer two thousand including support personnel (for air and naval operations also) which is not insubstantial but it's hardly BAOR-in-Falklands.

[CoraSpia]

Their is one booky offering equal odds that Liz Kendal will become labour leader, and that the next UKIP leader will be Gyles Brandrith.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I thought it was nearer two thousand including support personnel (for air and naval operations also) which is not insubstantial but it's hardly BAOR-in-Falklands.

There is that many? Honestly thought it was a lot smaller than that, but yeah its not that large a number compared to other military units and bases.

edit: According to wikipedia its 1300 personnel as of 2012. (edit)Wait no that is the overall military force for the south Atlantic islands, the actual defence force of the Falklands is apparently 200-300 personnel.

[CoraSpia]

I thought it was nearer two thousand including support personnel (for air and naval operations also) which is not insubstantial but it's hardly BAOR-in-Falklands.

There is that many? Honestly thought it was a lot smaller than that, but yeah its that a large number compared to other military units and bases.

edit: According to wikipedia its 1300 personnel as of 2012. (edit)Wait no that is the overall military force for the south Atlantic islands, the actual defence force of the Falklands is apparently 200-300 personnel.

Hardly a huge drain though.

[The Huskar Social Union]

There is that many? Honestly thought it was a lot smaller than that, but yeah its that a large number compared to other military units and bases.

edit: According to wikipedia its 1300 personnel as of 2012. (edit)Wait no that is the overall military force for the south Atlantic islands, the actual defence force of the Falklands is apparently 200-300 personnel.

Hardly a huge drain though.

Yeah, not that big at all.

[Imperializt Russia]

There is that many? Honestly thought it was a lot smaller than that, but yeah its that a large number compared to other military units and bases.

edit: According to wikipedia its 1300 personnel as of 2012. (edit)Wait no that is the overall military force for the south Atlantic islands, the actual defence force of the Falklands is apparently 200-300 personnel.

Hardly a huge drain though.

If you want to get nitty-gritty about it, the military in general is a drain. The state shells out vast amounts of money on training, housing, feeding and fuelling men and machines that do not contribute to the labour market.

Good thing we don't let accountants run everything quite just yet.

[CoraSpia]

Hardly a huge drain though.

If you want to get nitty-gritty about it, the military in general is a drain. The state shells out vast amounts of money on training, housing, feeding and fuelling men and machines that do not contribute to the labour market.

Good thing we don't let accountants run everything quite just yet.

It's necisary though.

[Imperializt Russia]

If you want to get nitty-gritty about it, the military in general is a drain. The state shells out vast amounts of money on training, housing, feeding and fuelling men and machines that do not contribute to the labour market.

Good thing we don't let accountants run everything quite just yet.

It's necisary though.

Exactly.

[Atlanticatia]

That article seems really old. He was talking about Tony Blair's reaction in Parliament and it looks like he was talking about Chavez's initial rise to power which was 1999-2000 ish so it seems your reaching a bit if your trying to make it a current endorsement of the state of Venezuela.

The article makes reference to a 2005 trade conference. Also, I never said that he (explicitly) supports the current state of Venezuela, only that he quite clearly supported the economic policies over the last decade that have led to the economic disaster we see today. Economists have long warned that the economy of Venezuela is terribly mismanaged, and could easily suffer hugely if the oil price drops. Not to mention the terrible political conditions that organizations such as human rights watch has documented there.

As for more recent endorsements:

http://labourlist.org/2013/03/thank-you-hugo-chavez/
http://islingtonnow.co.uk/2013/03/07/is ... go-chavez/

"The Alba Pact between Venezuela, Cuba, Ecuador and other countries in the region was a polar opposite of the US Free Market Economics that has traditionally been imposed on the poorest people in Latin America. This process allowed Venezuelan oil to support poor neighbouring economies and Cuban medical help brought healthcare for the first time to millions. The only condition of this process was that each country had to reduce inequality and conquer poverty; a far cry from the economics of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank’s imposition of structural adjustment programs on the entire continent."

I hate neoliberalism and the Washington consensus as much as the next leftie...but..really?? Praising Venezuela and Cuba as model countries for "defying the 'US Free Market Economics'"???

[L Ron Cupboard]

Their is one booky offering equal odds that Liz Kendal will become labour leader, and that the next UKIP leader will be Gyles Brandrith.

Liz Kendall probably has the same chance of becoming the next UKIP leader as she does of being the next Labour one.

[Apollinis]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11833264/Jeremy-Corbyns-Falklands-plan-tantamount-to-surrender-to-Argentina-warns-wounded-veteran-Simon-Weston.html

Oh Jeremy... politics r hard.

"Why don't we reach a dialogue instead of spending more and more money on arms"
This seems to imply that the Falklands is a cataclysmic drain on military resources. It's a handful of troops, a handful of aircraft and every so often a sub or a destroyer nearby.

I sincerely hope that if Corbyn wins the leadership (and I hope he does), he just lets the Shadow Foreign Secretary (whoever that may be) determine foreign policy without any kind of involvement himself.

[Val Halla]

When did Hull become a progressive and accepting city?

[The Matthew Islands]

When did Hull become a progressive and accepting city?

You think thats weird, Luton is hosting a gay pride event next year. I really hope it is a success.

[Val Halla]

When did Hull become a progressive and accepting city?

You think thats weird, Luton is hosting a gay pride event next year. I really hope it is a success.

My home town has its first next weekend. I suspect it'll be awful tbh.

But Hull? Hull is Hull

[Imperializt Russia]

You think thats weird, Luton is hosting a gay pride event next year. I really hope it is a success.

My home town has its first next weekend. I suspect it'll be awful tbh.

But Hull? Hull is Hull

Hull is a European Capital of Culture.

I'm quite sore about this, because they moved the Cleethorpes Festival of Flight to Hull.
THE CLUE IS IN THE NAME

[The Matthew Islands]

Has Hull ever been described as a 'hotbed' of extremeism'?

Coz Luton has.

[Val Halla]

My home town has its first next weekend. I suspect it'll be awful tbh.

But Hull? Hull is Hull

Hull is a European Capital of Culture.

I'm quite sore about this, because they moved the Cleethorpes Festival of Flight to Hull.
THE CLUE IS IN THE NAME

Probably because they don't want royalty in Cleethorpes.

But Hull continues to be Hull. Hull is shit. Why it's the capital of culture, I don't know

Has Hull ever been described as a 'hotbed' of extremeism'?

Coz Luton has.

But Hull is shit.

[Vassenor]

Has Hull ever been described as a 'hotbed' of extremeism'?

Coz Luton has.

But Hull is shit.

Oh god. I was born in Luton. That doesn't bode well for me does it?