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Micropayments Here, There, Everywhere?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should this forum facilitate micropayments?

No
82
77%
Yes
24
23%
 
Total votes : 106

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Xerographica
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Posts: 6360
Founded: Aug 15, 2012
Capitalist Paradise

Micropayments Here, There, Everywhere?

Postby Xerographica » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:33 pm

According to the poll in this thread, 60% of you believe that anti-discrimination laws are necessary. Evidently many of you are concerned that women, blacks, gays and Hindus do not have enough options. But is your concern sincere or superficial signaling?

In addition to CV surveys eliciting apparently inconsistent responses, some researchers question whether survey subjects are attempting to state their true demand for public goods. The worry is not that survey takers will strategically disguise their preferences (since little can be gained by giving false answers to questions about non-binding projects), but rather that they may be doing something else all together. For example, Diamond and Hausman (1994) suggest that respondents may be expressing an attitude that gives them a warm glow, even if they wouldn't be willing to support their response to a hypothetical question with actual money; or they may be describing what they think good citizens are supposed to say, rather than calculating how much benefit they would derive, all things considered, from allocating a specific amount to a particular good. - Jonny Anomaly, Public Goods and Government Action

How come no one voluntarily buys X? Because people don't actually like X - at least not enough to pay for it. Why does everyone praise X? Because praising X sounds good. Why do people unanimously vote for lavish spending on X? Because voting is just a special kind of talking. - Bryan Caplan, The Public Goods Model vs. Social Desirability Bias: A Case of Observational Equivalence

It is necessary to distinguish between two types of belief, the notional and the action-impelling. The distinction corresponds to that between cheap talk and credible commitment (“putting your money where your mouth is”). - Richard Posner, Frontiers of Legal Theory

It's disconcerting that the very same people who rail against the externalized costs of pollution of all kinds think absolutely nothing of forcibly externalizing the cost of their own preferred consumption. - Yevdokiya Zagumenova, She Wants X, but Wants Someone Else to Pay for X

They will not indeed submit to more labours and privations than other people, for the relief of distressed fellow creatures: but they make amends by whining over them more. It is not difficult to trace this sort of affectation to its cause. It originates in the common practice of bestowing upon feelings that praise which actions alone can deserve. - J.S. Mill

It’s very easy to support programs that other people will have to pay for. But voters, like everyone else, should bear the costs of their own decisions. Letting people vote for expensive programs that “somebody else” will finance is a good recipe for getting people to vote irresponsibly. - Steve Landsburg, Blast from the Past

Neither is value in words and doctrines. It is reflected in human conduct. It is not what a man or groups of men say about value that counts, but how they act. The oratory of moralists and the pompousness of party programs are significant as such. But they influence the course of human events only as far as they really determine the actions of men. - Ludwig von Mises, A First Analysis of the Category of Action

The only other people who are helped are the do-gooders responsible for this type of legislation and for these effects. They have the high-minded satisfaction of promoting a noble cause. The good intention is emblazoned forth for all to see. The harm is far less visible, much more indirect, much harder to connect with the good-hearted action. Besides, the harm is mostly to someone else. - Milton Friedman, Migrant Workers

The easiest way to test the honesty of a belief is to give people the opportunity to put their money where their mouths is. What this in mind...

Should this forum facilitate micropayments? If you say yes, then you'd like to have the chance to spend your own money in order to help give women, blacks, gays and Hindu more options. If you say no, then your concern for these people is not genuine.

Logistics - You'd use paypal to deposit money into your forum “wallet” (FW). If you valued Gabe's thread at a penny, then you'd click the penny button and a penny would be transferred from your FW into Gabe's FW. Once Gabe had enough pennies in his FW he could request a withdrawal. Max Barry would take his cut and paypal the rest to Gabe.

Feasibility - Just how feasible is to turn this forum into a market? It's entirely feasible.

All the necessary programming is very straightforward. Absolutely nothing fancy would be required. Well... maybe a bit of Ajax for when you click the penny or nickle or dime or quarter buttons. But nothing a reasonably seasoned programmer couldn't handle.

Just because it's feasible though doesn't mean that it will be cheap. It would take quite a few hours to modify the database and write all the code. But it's not like all the features would have to be rolled out at once. In order to have a basically functional system you'd need to...

1. Add the FW column and total spending column to the members table
2. Add the total allocation column to the threads table
3. Create a table to keep track of how much each member has allocated to each thread
4. Add the coin buttons to the thread
5. Write the code to update the tables accordingly
6. Write the code to hide/disable the coin buttons if a member's broke
7. Write the code to display FW balance
8. Write the code to display the individual and total allocation for each thread

And that's it? I'm sure that I'm forgetting a few steps.

With this very basically functional system... Max Barry, or trusted admins, would have to manually update your FW when you paypal'd them money. This would only be a lot of work if a lot of people paid money. If nobody paypals any money then clearly Barry wouldn't want to allocate any more time/money to developing a system that there's zero demand for. So the greater the demand, the greater the justification/rationale/incentive/funding for making further improvements.


Layout - I suffer from a shortage of design skills, but perhaps sharing a bad design is better than not sharing any design...

Image


With this layout, the coin buttons and allocation info would be immediately above the OP. But perhaps it makes more sense for them to be immediately after the OP? To the right of the coins you can see how much you've allocated to this thread and how much the crowd has allocated to it. In the upper right of the page, just below your username, you'd be able to see your FW balance.

Approaches - The approach to micropayments that I've proposed is the "Pay-What-You-Want" (PWYW) approach. Another approach is the "One-Price-Fits-All" (OPFA) approach... ie Blendle. Given that one price really does not fit all, I'm pretty sure that the PWYW approach is superior. But I could be wrong!

Builderism - Perhaps it might be objected that facilitating "one click giving" on this forum will not really give disadvantaged people better options...

Image


Gabe's not going to be able to give up his day job if he only receives a penny for his thoughts/threads. If this is your objection, then what you're arguing is that disadvantaged people won't create sufficiently valuable threads and/or members won't spend enough money on them...

Image


I'm guessing that anybody who supports anti-discrimination laws also supports minimum wage laws. If you have no problem forcing employers to pay more than their valuation of labor, then you should have no problem forcing yourself to pay more than your valuation of threads.

Image


The more money you pay for threads, the more women, blacks, gays and Hindus would be able to give up their day jobs...

Income from posting at Nation States > Income from flipping burgers at McDonald's

Even if only white guys are able to give up their day jobs, this would still be beneficial to disadvantaged people. Why? Because there would be less white guys to compete with for other types of jobs.

There are other reasons to support turning this forum into a market...

Prioritize - There's no shortage of information on the topic of information overload...

The Age of Notifications - Steven Levy
10 Steps To Conquering Information Overload - Laura Shin
The paradox of choice - Barry Schwartz
Why sharing will eventually kill you - Aris Theophilakis

Websites are making it easier and easier to share information. With more and more information it's more and more difficult to find information that's truly valuable. The solution is simple. Websites need to make it easier and easier to valuate information. Hence, micropayments. The crowd can use their coin clicks to help guide you to important information. And you can use your coin clicks to help guide the crowd to information that's important to you. Of course, the less accurate the valuations, the less accurate this value guidance system becomes. Garbage in, garbage out.

Cultivate - An apple seed won’t germinate and thrive without adequate love (fertile soil, water, sun, etc). So if you love apples, then it would behoove you to contribute to the seedling’s cultivation. Otherwise, the seedling might not grow and bear fruit...which would result in a shortage of something that you love...apples.

Image


If Nation States facilitated cultivating creativity with cash, then this would create a wide variety of viable and fertile niches for a wide variety of good thoughts/ideas to grow to fruition.

Laboratories - It's been said that states are the laboratories of democracy. Given that there are only around 50 states here in the US... it shouldn't be a surprise that democracy hasn't really improved that much. But if Nation States makes valuing threads as easy as Facebook has made it to like posts... then Nation States would become a better market. Who wants to participate in better markets? Everybody. So it's a given that other websites would follow suit... Wired, The Economist, Democracy Journal, Medium, Jacobin, The New Rambler, Crooked Timber, Huffington Post, The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Wall Street Journal, Netflix, Spotify, Youtube, Facebook and countless other websites would all endeavor to become better markets. When websites become the laboratories of markets, and there are a gazillion websites, then market failure will be quickly weeded out. Markets will improve at an exponential rate.

Precedent - "I have to say, I feel it's my fault. I failed to create an adequate simulation of the real world." - Max Barry, brb buying ByteCoin

I'm not exactly sure whether or not that was an elaborate April Fool's joke. But clearly Barry's somewhat interested in the general topic.

And yes, I do realize that this is his website and he can do what he wants with it. Anybody who mentions this owes me $5 dollars.

Review - Micropayments can...

1. ...create more options for others
2. ...prioritize information
3. ...empower us to cultivate valuable ideas/thoughts
4. ...transform websites into markets

Discussion - Ok citizens of Nation States, let's have some excellent discussion!

1. Should this forum facilitate micropayments?
2. Do you hate this idea so much that you'd leave if it was implemented?
3. What are some of the potential unintended consequences?
4. Would you want to see the total amount of money that another member has spent?

Image


5. Which is more important to know?
A. Total number of posts that a member has made
B. Total number of dollars that a member has allocated
6. Would you want to be able to see another member's allocations sorted from highest to lowest?
7. Would you want to be able to allocate money to both threads and posts... or just threads?
8. If you value a thread at $0.50 cents, but you don't allocate any money to it, are you a free-rider?
9. Do you perceive that the free-rider problem would be significant?
10. If so, what are some ways to incentivize/encourage/reward voluntary contributions/allocations? Perks? Privileges? Prestige? Parades? Wall of fame?
11. Do you think that micropayments are the future?
12. What is the proper scope of micropayments? (ie, not appropriate for forums but appropriate for Youtube because...videos > threads)
13. If Facebook facilitated micropayments, what's the total amount of money that would have been allocated to this post by Robert Reich?
14. How much would you allocate to this thread? Be careful, you might just get the chance to put your money where your mouth is. If it helps, I'm Mexican. But I am male and straight though.

More

Supporting The People And Content You Love
Beyond the Deadweight Loss of “All You Can Eat” Subscriptions
The $1,000 CPM

I’ve often been critical of economists fetish of putting a price on everything and believing that the price mechanism is a miraculous device capable of solving any problem. They vastly overstate the case. However, I think Lanier is right in this instance. He suggests that a broad middle class capable of supporting a vibrant capitalist economy can only be nurtured if all the people who actually create the value of the Internet get paid for the information they currently supply for free. Digital networking technology is more than sophisticated enough to track value creation across all the world’s users, so as to provide the information required for a system of micropayments — people who create value, no matter where and when it was ultimately used, would get paid for it. - Mark Buchanan, Our economies are messed up. And the cause is the Internet.
Last edited by Xerographica on Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.

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Russels Orbiting Teapot
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Postby Russels Orbiting Teapot » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:13 pm

Xerographica wrote:Should this forum facilitate micropayments? If you say yes, then you'd like to have the chance to spend your own money in order to help give women, blacks, gays and Hindu more options. If you say no, then your concern for these people is not genuine.


Everything else aside, and it will take me some time to read and understand your lengthy post, this dichotomy is bullshit and you should be ashamed of yourself for making it. It's flagrant emotional manipulation. Stop this shit and maybe we'll start taking you more seriously.

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Galloism
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:16 pm

The chance of me paying anyone for posting a thread on Nationstates is somewhere between George Lucas becoming a great writer and director and Zeus coming down to eat pie with Zombie Reagan, Hitler, and Eleanor Roosevelt, then giving a free unicorn to everone in the world.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Mad hatters in jeans
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Ex-Nation

Postby Mad hatters in jeans » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:20 pm

Should this forum facilitate micropayments? If you say yes, then you'd like to have the chance to spend your own money in order to help give women, blacks, gays and Hindu more options. If you say no, then your concern for these people is not genuine.

Oh my emotional blackmail in the first sentence, this is going to be fun.

Given that there are only around 50 states here in the US... it shouldn't be a surprise that democracy hasn't really improved that much.

How does the number of states equate to improvement in democracy?
I don't even...

Xerographica wrote:Precedent - "I have to say, I feel it's my fault. I failed to create an adequate simulation of the real world." - Max Barry, brb buying ByteCoin

I'm not exactly sure whether or not that was an elaborate April Fool's joke. But clearly Barry's somewhat interested in the general topic.

...

...

:rofl:

Okay i'm done here.

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Russels Orbiting Teapot
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Postby Russels Orbiting Teapot » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:21 pm

I also want to add that the model of using micropayments only for thread starters would be even more likely to lead to a pile of clickbait threads. It would turn NS into a blog site.

If this is done, it should be implemented in a way that allows individual posters to be tipped for their posts regardless of thread.

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Xerographica
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Founded: Aug 15, 2012
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Xerographica » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:28 pm

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:Everything else aside, and it will take me some time to read and understand your lengthy post, this dichotomy is bullshit and you should be ashamed of yourself for making it. It's flagrant emotional manipulation. Stop this shit and maybe we'll start taking you more seriously.

The first spoiler supports the widely recognized fact that there's often a significant disparity between words and actions. The idea that talk is cheap is hardly disputed.

If there's widespread support for anti-discrimination laws, but barely any support for paying people when they produce valuable threads... then I think it's pretty reasonable to conclude that many people's concern for the disadvantaged is superficial. Their concern ends where their own pockets begin.
Last edited by Xerographica on Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.

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Page
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:31 pm

It's really sad that the OP worked so hard on a thread absolutely no one cares about.

tl;dr
Anarcho-Communist Against: Bolsheviks, Fascists, TERFs, Putin, Autocrats, Conservatives, Ancaps, Bourgeoisie, Bigots, Liberals, Maoists

I don't believe in kink-shaming unless your kink is submitting to the state.

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Kelinfort
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Postby Kelinfort » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:31 pm

I don't understand your point.

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Xerographica
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Xerographica » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:32 pm

Galloism wrote:The chance of me paying anyone for posting a thread on Nationstates is somewhere between George Lucas becoming a great writer and director and Zeus coming down to eat pie with Zombie Reagan, Hitler, and Eleanor Roosevelt, then giving a free unicorn to everone in the world.

Do you think that the chances are larger or smaller that anyone would ever pay you for a thread that you produced?
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.

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Kelinfort
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Postby Kelinfort » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:37 pm

Xerographica wrote:
Galloism wrote:The chance of me paying anyone for posting a thread on Nationstates is somewhere between George Lucas becoming a great writer and director and Zeus coming down to eat pie with Zombie Reagan, Hitler, and Eleanor Roosevelt, then giving a free unicorn to everone in the world.

Do you think that the chances are larger or smaller that anyone would ever pay you for a thread that you produced?

The same. I won't pay for what anyone produces and I bet no one will pay for mine. These threads/posts aren't worth any money.

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Xerographica
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Xerographica » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:41 pm

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:I also want to add that the model of using micropayments only for thread starters would be even more likely to lead to a pile of clickbait threads. It would turn NS into a blog site.

Clickbait threads? Can you given an example? If I click on a thread, and the OP is worthless, then I'm not going to allocate any money to the thread. Are you going to allocate money to a worthless OP? Would anybody? Maybe people who support minimum wage laws?

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:If this is done, it should be implemented in a way that allows individual posters to be tipped for their posts regardless of thread.

I'd certainly support allocations for both threads and posts... but I disagree that it shouldn't be implemented if we can only allocate to threads. Some choice is better than no choice.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.

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Russels Orbiting Teapot
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Postby Russels Orbiting Teapot » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:42 pm

Xerographica wrote:
Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:Everything else aside, and it will take me some time to read and understand your lengthy post, this dichotomy is bullshit and you should be ashamed of yourself for making it. It's flagrant emotional manipulation. Stop this shit and maybe we'll start taking you more seriously.

The first spoiler supports the widely recognized fact that there's often a significant disparity between words and actions. The idea that talk is cheap is hardly disputed.

If there's widespread support for anti-discrimination laws, but barely any support for paying people when they produce valuable threads... then I think it's pretty reasonable to conclude that many people's concern for the disadvantaged is superficial. Their concern ends where their own pockets begin.


No it's not reasonable. It would not be reasonable for me to conclude that people are insincere about their desire for freedom if I can't convince them that Anarchism can work. The two things are not nearly as related as you are trying to pass them off as.

You may as well be saying that you must support paying judges for verdicts if you support diversity, because it would allow blacks, hindus, etc to pay judges for verdicts as well.

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Xerographica
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Xerographica » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:45 pm

Kelinfort wrote:The same. I won't pay for what anyone produces and I bet no one will pay for mine. These threads/posts aren't worth any money.

These threads/posts aren't worth any money... and we don't pay anything for them... coincidence? Would the value of movies increase or decrease if we didn't pay anything for them?
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.

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Xerographica
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Xerographica » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:55 pm

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:No it's not reasonable. It would not be reasonable for me to conclude that people are insincere about their desire for freedom if I can't convince them that Anarchism can work. The two things are not nearly as related as you are trying to pass them off as.

You may as well be saying that you must support paying judges for verdicts if you support diversity, because it would allow blacks, hindus, etc to pay judges for verdicts as well.

Interest in paying people for threads isn't a good test to determine people's sincerity in giving people better options? Can you think of a better test?

My friend always cries when she watches the Sarah Mclachlan commercial with the homeless/abused animals. But she's never once reached for her purse. My conclusion is that the plight of disadvantaged animals makes her sad, but not sad enough to spend her own money to do something about it. I'm pretty sure though that she'd vote for more funding for disadvantaged animals.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.

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Russels Orbiting Teapot
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Postby Russels Orbiting Teapot » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:58 pm

Xerographica wrote:Interest in paying people for threads isn't a good test to determine people's sincerity in giving people better options? Can you think of a better test?

My friend always cries when she watches the Sarah Mclachlan commercial with the homeless/abused animals. But she's never once reached for her purse. My conclusion is that the plight of disadvantaged animals makes her sad, but not sad enough to spend her own money to do something about it. I'm pretty sure though that she'd vote for more funding for disadvantaged animals.


Interesting. Given that, you must feel that only people who support PETA are sincere about helping animals.

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Kelinfort
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Postby Kelinfort » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:59 pm

Xerographica wrote:
Kelinfort wrote:The same. I won't pay for what anyone produces and I bet no one will pay for mine. These threads/posts aren't worth any money.

These threads/posts aren't worth any money... and we don't pay anything for them... coincidence? Would the value of movies increase or decrease if we didn't pay anything for them?

How do you measure "value"?

The production costs of these posts are virtually free. Movies are not.

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Xerographica
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Xerographica » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:06 pm

Kelinfort wrote:
Xerographica wrote:These threads/posts aren't worth any money... and we don't pay anything for them... coincidence? Would the value of movies increase or decrease if we didn't pay anything for them?

How do you measure "value"?

Value, like beauty, is in the eye of the consumer. It's largely a function of preference and circumstance.

Queen Elizabeth [the first] owned silk stockings. The capitalist achievement does not typically consist in providing more silk stockings for queens but in bringing them within the reach of factory girls in return for steadily decreasing amounts of effort. - Joseph Schumpeter, Capitalism, Socialism, and Democracy

Have you ever paid for silk stockings? I sure haven't.

Kelinfort wrote:The production costs of these posts are virtually free. Movies are not.

If a solid thread could earn you a beer, then it's a given that people would spend more time producing threads. Why? Incentives matter. Take away incentives and of course people aren't going to spend much time producing threads.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.

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Xerographica
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Postby Xerographica » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:11 pm

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:Interesting. Given that, you must feel that only people who support PETA are sincere about helping animals.

Sincerity = sacrifice. No sacrifice = no sincerity.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.

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Russels Orbiting Teapot
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Postby Russels Orbiting Teapot » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:13 pm

Xerographica wrote:
Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:Interesting. Given that, you must feel that only people who support PETA are sincere about helping animals.

Sincerity = sacrifice. No sacrifice = no sincerity.


So people who don't sacrifice in the way that you specifically advocate must not care.

Do you support PETA, Xero? If not, do you yourself not feel that animals should be treated ethically?

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Seno Zhou Varada
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Postby Seno Zhou Varada » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:19 pm

*grabs the popcorn*
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:19 pm

If time is money, I'm already sorry I paid 5 minutes for scrolling through the OP and then reading the replies.
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Seno Zhou Varada
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Postby Seno Zhou Varada » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:22 pm

Ah the OP left *sighs* and the popcorn was already out. Clear sign the OP doesn't value popcorn as much as leaving when it seems everyone is against him *puts popcorn away*.
Political Compass: Economic: -8.88 Social: -9.54
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Still dirty commie, shower is currently being collectivised.

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Xerographica
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Xerographica » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:23 pm

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:So people who don't sacrifice in the way that you specifically advocate must not care.

If people aren't willing to pay for threads that they value, then why should I suspect that this mindset is limited to threads? I believe that the free-rider problem is a real problem.

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:Do you support PETA, Xero? If not, do you yourself not feel that animals should be treated ethically?

I have not once allocated any money to PETA. And I have not once advocated that people should not be free to give their money to PETA. Look at the poll. The majority is advocating that members should not be free to allocate their money to threads that they value. Yet, the majority also believes that anti-discrimination laws are necessary.

The majority believes...

1. That anti-discrimination laws are necessary
2. That minimum wage laws are necessary
3. That forum members shouldn't be free to allocate money to threads

Clearly the majority wants to appear concerned, but they don't want to be in a position where others can clearly observe that they are free-riders.
Forsher wrote:You, I and everyone we know, knows Xero's threads are about one thing and one thing only.

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Seno Zhou Varada
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Postby Seno Zhou Varada » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:30 pm

Xerographica wrote:
Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:So people who don't sacrifice in the way that you specifically advocate must not care.

If people aren't willing to pay for threads that they value, then why should I suspect that this mindset is limited to threads? I believe that the free-rider problem is a real problem.

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:Do you support PETA, Xero? If not, do you yourself not feel that animals should be treated ethically?

I have not once allocated any money to PETA. And I have not once advocated that people should not be free to give their money to PETA. Look at the poll. The majority is advocating that members should not be free to allocate their money to threads that they value. Yet, the majority also believes that anti-discrimination laws are necessary.

The majority believes...

1. That anti-discrimination laws are necessary
2. That minimum wage laws are necessary
3. That forum members shouldn't be free to allocate money to threads

Clearly the majority wants to appear concerned, but they don't want to be in a position where others can clearly observe that they are free-riders.

You missed a part of the question let me bold it for you. Oops added some size too it to.
Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:
Xerographica wrote:Sincerity = sacrifice. No sacrifice = no sincerity.


So people who don't sacrifice in the way that you specifically advocate must not care.

Do you support PETA, Xero? If not, do you yourself not feel that animals should be treated ethically?
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Russels Orbiting Teapot
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Founded: Jan 20, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Russels Orbiting Teapot » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:30 pm

Xerographica wrote:I have not once allocated any money to PETA. And I have not once advocated that people should not be free to give their money to PETA. Look at the poll. The majority is advocating that members should not be free to allocate their money to threads that they value. Yet, the majority also believes that anti-discrimination laws are necessary.

The majority believes...

1. That anti-discrimination laws are necessary
2. That minimum wage laws are necessary
3. That forum members shouldn't be free to allocate money to threads

Clearly the majority wants to appear concerned, but they don't want to be in a position where others can clearly observe that they are free-riders.


Or they see through your dishonesty and don't want to support it. Or they identify structural issues with what you propose and don't believe that it will work. Or they don't believe that it would work for this particular site for other reasons.

I usually support the idea of micropayments, Xero, but your method of advocating for them is so blatantly dishonest and manipulative that I find myself unwilling to actually press the 'yes' button here, and reward your dishonest, manipulative tactics.

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