The Role of Government

[Washington Resistance Army]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_s ... experiment

Yep, shitty thing. Shouldn't happen again and if it does the people involved should be prosecuted to fullest extent.

Nuking Japan a second time just to scare the USSR.

You evidently understand nothing about why the US nuked Japan.

Segregating people of colour.

Shitty thing, I entirely oppose segregation and it's a terrible thing it happened.

Spraying agent orange on admirers of your country after you armed then in WW2 against the Japanese and betrayed them.

Also a shitty thing, I can't change it but I most certainly do not support it.

Betraying democracy in South America, Asia, Latin America, Middle east in the name of capitalism.

Welcome to Cold War politics bud.

Using depleted Uranium.

You evidently understand nothing of modern military technology either.

[Ardoki]

That doesn't make any grammatical sense and I can't understand what you mean.

Let me be more clear for you.
I. AM. NOT. A. CAPITALIST. I am not interested in defending capitalism.

What Comrade Stalin did was bad and not necessary, however his crimes were not as bad as the damage the Americans caused with their enslavement and subsequently oppression and murder of innocent Africans.

Slavery was fucking terrible and it almost ruined America.
Stalinism was fucking terrible and it did ruin the USSR.
Communism has failed today largely because of Stalin and Mao being terrible leaders.
I would prefer if an alternative to capitalism existed in the world today in a viable form, but it sadly doesn't.

I guess you support fascism then? Since you hate left-wingers and are anti-capitalist.

Slavery was far worse than what Comrade Stalin did.

[Ardoki]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_s ... experiment

Yep, shitty thing. Shouldn't happen again and if it does the people involved should be prosecuted to fullest extent.

Nuking Japan a second time just to scare the USSR.

You evidently understand nothing about why the US nuked Japan.

Segregating people of colour.

Shitty thing, I entirely oppose segregation and it's a terrible thing it happened.

Spraying agent orange on admirers of your country after you armed then in WW2 against the Japanese and betrayed them.

Also a shitty thing, I can't change it but I most certainly do not support it.

Betraying democracy in South America, Asia, Latin America, Middle east in the name of capitalism.

Welcome to Cold War politics bud.

Using depleted Uranium.

You evidently understand nothing of modern military technology either.

Modern historians mainly agree that it was not necessary to nuclear bomb Japan as Japan was about to surrender (it made advances towards the US for surrender on the condition that the Emperor was kept, however the US would only accept a unconditional) and could not have survived a blockade meaning that even if they would not surrender now they would have no choice to rather soon. The bombings were only done to scare the USSR.

Depleted uranium has been linked to cancer and radiation sickness in Iraq.

[Arkolon]

That doesn't make any grammatical sense and I can't understand what you mean.

Let me be more clear for you.
I. AM. NOT. A. CAPITALIST. I am not interested in defending capitalism.

There are only two ways to view private property: either it is bad, and should be totally communally owned and redistributed. That's the socialist way of thinking. If you don't think this way, then you are a capitalist. Since private property is pretty much a Y/N question there's not much room for a middle ground in there.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

I guess you support fascism then? Since you hate left-wingers and are anti-capitalist.

I am a leftist. An anarchist to be more precise.

Slavery was far worse than what Comrade Stalin did.

Actually, I figure it was about on par. Similar number of people killed, similar number of people put in terrible conditions with no recourse.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Modern historians mainly agree that it was not necessary to nuclear bomb Japan as Japan was about to surrender (it made advances towards the US for surrender on the condition that the Emperor was kept, however the US would only accept a unconditional) and could not have survived a blockade meaning that even if they would not surrender now they would have no choice to rather soon.

Depleted uranium has been linked to cancer and radiation sickness in Iraq.

No, Japan was not about to surrender because no one was ever going to accept their terms. They wanted to keep the empire, that was not going to happen and the allies would have been forced to invade. The Japanese High Command had already made battle plans for the defense of the home islands which included arming school children with sharpened sticks and ordering them to charge American lines. The nukes were a far better alternative to invasion.

As for DU rounds, no nothing conclusive has ever been linked. There's a reason it's called depleted, the only time it could ever cause side effects like that is if it entered your body and given the US mainly uses DU rounds in 120mm tank shells you aren't going to be living long to get cancer if one hits you. Try again.

[Socialist Tera]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_s ... experiment

Yep, shitty thing. Shouldn't happen again and if it does the people involved should be prosecuted to fullest extent.

Nuking Japan a second time just to scare the USSR.

You evidently understand nothing about why the US nuked Japan.

Segregating people of colour.

Shitty thing, I entirely oppose segregation and it's a terrible thing it happened.

Spraying agent orange on admirers of your country after you armed then in WW2 against the Japanese and betrayed them.

Also a shitty thing, I can't change it but I most certainly do not support it.

Betraying democracy in South America, Asia, Latin America, Middle east in the name of capitalism.

Welcome to Cold War politics bud.

Using depleted Uranium.

You evidently understand nothing of modern military technology either.

Depleted Uranium:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... areas-iraq
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-con ... 12888.html
WW2:http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/
@Cold war reply:
Still doesn't excuse turning it's back against "democracy".
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the ... talin-did/

[Prussia-Steinbach]

That doesn't make any grammatical sense and I can't understand what you mean.

Let me be more clear for you.
I. AM. NOT. A. CAPITALIST. I am not interested in defending capitalism.

What Comrade Stalin did was bad and not necessary, however his crimes were not as bad as the damage the Americans caused with their enslavement and subsequently oppression and murder of innocent Africans.

Slavery was fucking terrible and it almost ruined America.
Stalinism was fucking terrible and it did ruin the USSR.
Communism has failed today largely because of Stalin and Mao being terrible leaders.
I would prefer if an alternative to capitalism existed in the world today in a viable form, but it sadly doesn't.

Socialism is pretty existent and fathomable.

[Ardoki]

I guess you support fascism then? Since you hate left-wingers and are anti-capitalist.

I am a leftist. An anarchist to be more precise.

Slavery was far worse than what Comrade Stalin did.

Actually, I figure it was about on par. Similar number of people killed, similar number of people put in terrible conditions with no recourse.

Actually, no.

There was a minimum of 11 million Africans who were kidnapped/captured and sent to the US alone. Due to the profit motive of slave traders and owners, they were forced to breed like rabbits meaning that there were many times more slaves who were actually in the US. They were kept in such harsh conditions, many died, however there always new babies being born on the plantations so that didn't worry the capitalists too much. Then you have all of the oppression of the Jim Crow Era, the lynchings of the KKK and their allies, the apartheid denial of rights until the late 20th Century; and the continuing poverty, discrimination and abuse they still receive to this day in America.

[Socialist Tera]

Let me be more clear for you.
I. AM. NOT. A. CAPITALIST. I am not interested in defending capitalism.

There are only two ways to view private property: either it is bad, and should be totally communally owned and redistributed. That's the socialist way of thinking. If you don't think this way, then you are a capitalist. Since private property is pretty much a Y/N question there's not much room for a middle ground in there.

Learn the difference between personal and private property.

[Ardoki]

Modern historians mainly agree that it was not necessary to nuclear bomb Japan as Japan was about to surrender (it made advances towards the US for surrender on the condition that the Emperor was kept, however the US would only accept a unconditional) and could not have survived a blockade meaning that even if they would not surrender now they would have no choice to rather soon.

Depleted uranium has been linked to cancer and radiation sickness in Iraq.

No, Japan was not about to surrender because no one was ever going to accept their terms. They wanted to keep the empire, that was not going to happen and the allies would have been forced to invade. The Japanese High Command had already made battle plans for the defense of the home islands which included arming school children with sharpened sticks and ordering them to charge American lines. The nukes were a far better alternative to invasion.

As for DU rounds, no nothing conclusive has ever been linked. There's a reason it's called depleted, the only time it could ever cause side effects like that is if it entered your body and given the US mainly uses DU rounds in 120mm tank shells you aren't going to be living long to get cancer if one hits you. Try again.

That was the military hard-liners.

However the Emperor and the new moderate government did approach the US (and the USSR) offering a surrender on the condition that the Emperor would retain his position, however the US denied this as they wanted to put Hirohito on trial for war crimes (however they ended up not doing this, as he was the only person who could ensure Japan surrendered).

[Washington Resistance Army]

Depleted Uranium:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... areas-iraq
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-con ... 12888.html
WW2:http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/
@Cold war reply:
Still doesn't excuse turning it's back against "democracy".
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the ... talin-did/

Both DU 'sources' are wrong, go find actual scientists that say DU rounds cause cancer. Good luck, because I've tried and couldn't find anything conclusive.

WW2 source is typical uneducated nonsense, the USSR had no way to attack mainland Japan and while the loss of the Manchurian army group (forgot it's actual name atm) was a big blow the Japanese were determined to hold out on the home islands as their high command clearly showed.

No it doesn't excuse turning it's back on democracy, but that's just how the Cold War was. Each superpower did whatever was in their best interests.

[Socialist Tera]

I guess you support fascism then? Since you hate left-wingers and are anti-capitalist.

I am a leftist. An anarchist to be more precise.

Slavery was far worse than what Comrade Stalin did.

Actually, I figure it was about on par. Similar number of people killed, similar number of people put in terrible conditions with no recourse.

Lol, tell me about your successful anarchist societies Russels?

[Arkolon]

There are only two ways to view private property: either it is bad, and should be totally communally owned and redistributed. That's the socialist way of thinking. If you don't think this way, then you are a capitalist. Since private property is pretty much a Y/N question there's not much room for a middle ground in there.

Learn the difference between personal and private property.

I didn't mention personal property because it is not the same as private property. If anything, I was agreeing with you. There is no private property in socialism, and any society with private property would be capitalist. Don't see where personal property, however sure I am of its existence and difference between private property, comes into this.

[Ardoki]

Depleted Uranium:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... areas-iraq
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-con ... 12888.html
WW2:http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/
@Cold war reply:
Still doesn't excuse turning it's back against "democracy".
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the ... talin-did/

Both DU 'sources' are wrong, go find actual scientists that say DU rounds cause cancer. Good luck, because I've tried and couldn't find anything conclusive.

WW2 source is typical uneducated nonsense, the USSR had no way to attack mainland Japan and while the loss of the Manchurian army group (forgot it's actual name atm) was a big blow the Japanese were determined to hold out on the home islands as their high command clearly showed.

No it doesn't excuse turning it's back on democracy, but that's just how the Cold War was. Each superpower did whatever was in their best interests.

can I please have the names of the scientists you asked?

[Socialist Tera]

Both DU 'sources' are wrong, go find actual scientists that say DU rounds cause cancer. Good luck, because I've tried and couldn't find anything conclusive.

WW2 source is typical uneducated nonsense, the USSR had no way to attack mainland Japan and while the loss of the Manchurian army group (forgot it's actual name atm) was a big blow the Japanese were determined to hold out on the home islands as their high command clearly showed.

No it doesn't excuse turning it's back on democracy, but that's just how the Cold War was. Each superpower did whatever was in their best interests.

can I please have the names of the scientists you asked?

I would like to know as well, when people found out about Agent Orange, scientists were saying that Agent Orange is ok.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Lol, tell me about your successful anarchist societies Russels?

The one in the future, when we all figure out that systems based on totalitarian violence aren't what's best for anyone, and when we automate the means of production so that the individual worker can produce everything they need locally.

[Washington Resistance Army]

No, Japan was not about to surrender because no one was ever going to accept their terms. They wanted to keep the empire, that was not going to happen and the allies would have been forced to invade. The Japanese High Command had already made battle plans for the defense of the home islands which included arming school children with sharpened sticks and ordering them to charge American lines. The nukes were a far better alternative to invasion.

As for DU rounds, no nothing conclusive has ever been linked. There's a reason it's called depleted, the only time it could ever cause side effects like that is if it entered your body and given the US mainly uses DU rounds in 120mm tank shells you aren't going to be living long to get cancer if one hits you. Try again.

That was the military hard-liners.

However the Emperor and the new moderate government did approach the US (and the USSR) offering a surrender on the condition that the Emperor would retain his position, however the US denied this as they wanted to put Hirohito on trial for war crimes (however they ended up not doing this, as he was the only person who could ensure Japan surrendered).

The military hardliners (specifically people like Tojo and Koiso) were still very powerful until the Emperor forced a surrender after the bombs. You should really learn these things before you try to debate them.

[Washington Resistance Army]

can I please have the names of the scientists you asked?

Google is your friend, go look it up. I've done it a few times and have yet to find a credible peer reviewed paper showing it has negative side effects.

[Socialist Tera]

Lol, tell me about your successful anarchist societies Russels?

The one in the future, when we all figure out that systems based on totalitarian violence aren't what's best for anyone, and when we automate the means of production so that the individual worker can produce everything they need locally.

Why don't we use methods that we know that works. We tried anarchy in the Paris Commune and it failed.

[Ardoki]

That was the military hard-liners.

However the Emperor and the new moderate government did approach the US (and the USSR) offering a surrender on the condition that the Emperor would retain his position, however the US denied this as they wanted to put Hirohito on trial for war crimes (however they ended up not doing this, as he was the only person who could ensure Japan surrendered).

The military hardliners (specifically people like Tojo, Koiso and Suzuki) were in power until the Emperor forced a surrender after the bombs. You should really learn these things before you try to debate them.

You are blatantly lying. Tojo was dismissed on July 22, 1944 due to the war going so badly for Japan. He was replaced by the much more moderate Koiso.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The military hardliners (specifically people like Tojo, Koiso and Suzuki) were in power until the Emperor forced a surrender after the bombs. You should really learn these things before you try to debate them.

You are blatantly lying. Tojo was dismissed on July 22, 1944 due to the war going so badly for Japan. He was replaced by the much more moderate Koiso.

Who was still very pro-military, the later prime ministers simply realized it was a losing effort. As did everyone in Japan really, but I digress.

We're starting to veer wildly off course so I'm gonna say it's best to just drop this and return to the tracks.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Why don't we use methods that we know that works. We tried anarchy in the Paris Commune and it failed.

The USSR was tried and it failed.

See how easy that was?

And the Paris Commune did not have 3D printers.

[Ardoki]

can I please have the names of the scientists you asked?

Google is your friend, go look it up. I've done it a few times and have yet to find a credible peer reviewed paper showing it has negative side effects.

So you never actually asked a scientist.

According to the World Nuclear Association depleted uranium is harmful if it comes into contact with people.

[Ardoki]

You are blatantly lying. Tojo was dismissed on July 22, 1944 due to the war going so badly for Japan. He was replaced by the much more moderate Koiso.

Who was still very pro-military, the later prime ministers simply realized it was a losing effort. As did everyone in Japan really, but I digress.

We're starting to veer wildly off course so I'm gonna say it's best to just drop this and return to the tracks.

The reason Tojo was replaced by Koiso was because it was obvious Japan was going to lose the war and Japan wanted to surrender with the best possible terms.