NationStates

Fanosolia wrote:

Gauthier wrote:
So Gamergate rules over us all?

How is gamergate still a thing? Like don't get wrong it's brought up a lot of issues, just how is that event still a thing?

culture war is mostly social media and voting with your wallet. pretty much the chief concerns of people in the West.

Fanosolia wrote:

Gauthier wrote:
So Gamergate rules over us all?

How is gamergate still a thing? Like don't get wrong it's brought up a lot of issues, just how is that event still a thing?

On this forum? MRAs echo chambering about how feminists are out to ruin video games and the entire world.

Gauthier wrote:

Haktiva wrote:no mostly feminists menstruating and shitting on a flag(albeit the flag of the Islamic State) and calling art is when I call it ridiculous. Also Big Red.

Haktiva wrote:eh, I was talking more about the destruction of male spaces, honestly.

Moving goalposts burns a lot of calories eh?

goalposts?

Gauthier wrote:

Fanosolia wrote:
How is gamergate still a thing? Like don't get wrong it's brought up a lot of issues, just how is that event still a thing?

On this forum? MRAs echo chambering about how feminists are out to ruin video games and the entire world.

honestly I thought MRAs got taken over by tradcons.

Gauthier wrote:

Nelson R Mandela wrote:It's a nice thing to have feminism nowadays, but now it's starting to get rather ridiculous, and OP's article proves it.

Soo a girl wanting to wear a t-shirt that proclaims she's a feminist proves feminism is getting ridiculous? Do people wearing the shirts of their favorite sporting team prove sporting is getting ridiculous? Do people wearing shirts of their favorite entertainer prove entertainment is getting ridiculous? Shirt of their favorite classical composer prove classical music is getting ridiculous?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I personally feel like there is already enough social equality in our modern times than there ever was, at least in USA. I find it unnecessary for one to even consider support the movement today.

Nelson R Mandela wrote:

Gauthier wrote:
Soo a girl wanting to wear a t-shirt that proclaims she's a feminist proves feminism is getting ridiculous? Do people wearing the shirts of their favorite sporting team prove sporting is getting ridiculous? Do people wearing shirts of their favorite entertainer prove entertainment is getting ridiculous? Shirt of their favorite classical composer prove classical music is getting ridiculous?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I personally feel like there is already enough social equality in our modern times than there ever was, at least in USA. I find it unnecessary for one to even consider support the movement today.

feminism in the west is all about first world problems.

Nelson R Mandela wrote:

Gauthier wrote:
Soo a girl wanting to wear a t-shirt that proclaims she's a feminist proves feminism is getting ridiculous? Do people wearing the shirts of their favorite sporting team prove sporting is getting ridiculous? Do people wearing shirts of their favorite entertainer prove entertainment is getting ridiculous? Shirt of their favorite classical composer prove classical music is getting ridiculous?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I personally feel like there is already enough social equality in our modern times than there ever was, at least in USA. I find it unnecessary for one to even consider support the movement today.

So scrap the Lilly Ledbetter Act because women are receiving pay equal to men amirite?

Gauthier wrote:

Nelson R Mandela wrote:No, that's not what I'm saying. I personally feel like there is already enough social equality in our modern times than there ever was, at least in USA. I find it unnecessary for one to even consider support the movement today.

So scrap the Lilly Ledbetter Act because women are receiving pay equal to men amirite?

when it comes to minimum wage they sure do, provided they work the same amount as the others. I'm still upset there aren't enough male secretaries and nurses.

Gauthier wrote:

Nelson R Mandela wrote:No, that's not what I'm saying. I personally feel like there is already enough social equality in our modern times than there ever was, at least in USA. I find it unnecessary for one to even consider support the movement today.

So scrap the Lilly Ledbetter Act because women are receiving pay equal to men amirite?

Not social equality as in equal pay, come on. Civil equality, if you will.

Haktiva wrote:eh, I was talking more about the destruction of male spaces, honestly.

Such as...?

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:

Haktiva wrote:eh, I was talking more about the destruction of male spaces, honestly.

Such as...?

Mostly I see it as women butting into traditionally male only spaces. They like to sanitize it and make it "safe". Saloons were traditionally only male, but then we had the temperance movement and now were have "ladies nights".

Gaming is perhaps the latest battleground(hence gamergate in a way). Mostly it was guys who played, the vast majority are still guys. Now women want in(probably for attention) and we have all this controversy.

There's also sports and such. However, the destruction of a male space is usually on a smaller scale as far as I can tell. It's what I call marriage, especially nowadays.

Haktiva wrote:

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:
Such as...?

Mostly I see it as women butting into traditionally male only spaces. They like to sanitize it and make it "safe". Saloons were traditionally only male, but then we had the temperance movement and now were have "ladies nights".

Gaming is perhaps the latest battleground(hence gamergate in a way). Mostly it was guys who played, the vast majority are still guys. Now women want in(probably for attention) and we have all this controversy.

There's also sports and such. However, the destruction of a male space is usually on a smaller scale as far as I can tell. It's what I call marriage, especially nowadays.

So whining that women aren't sticking to Barbie Dolls?

Haktiva wrote:Mostly I see it as women butting into traditionally male only spaces. They like to sanitize it and make it "safe". Saloons were traditionally only male, but then we had the temperance movement and now were have "ladies nights".

Gaming is perhaps the latest battleground(hence gamergate in a way). Mostly it was guys who played, the vast majority are still guys. Now women want in(probably for attention) and we have all this controversy.

You know you come off as a bigot, right?
A lot of those places used to also be traditionally white places.
And I know plenty of girl gamers who are definitely not doing it for the attention.

There's also sports and such. However, the destruction of a male space is usually on a smaller scale as far as I can tell. It's what I call marriage, especially nowadays.

How is marriage the destruction of a male space? What the fuck are you on about?

Are... are you the partriarchy?

Gauthier wrote:

Haktiva wrote:Mostly I see it as women butting into traditionally male only spaces. They like to sanitize it and make it "safe". Saloons were traditionally only male, but then we had the temperance movement and now were have "ladies nights".

Gaming is perhaps the latest battleground(hence gamergate in a way). Mostly it was guys who played, the vast majority are still guys. Now women want in(probably for attention) and we have all this controversy.

There's also sports and such. However, the destruction of a male space is usually on a smaller scale as far as I can tell. It's what I call marriage, especially nowadays.

So whining that women aren't sticking to Barbie Dolls?

exactly

nah, they just seem to find a problem where there isn't one. or rather, the ones who suck at the particular hobby or just can't keep up with the guys and cry fowl.

Gauthier wrote:

Fanosolia wrote:
How is gamergate still a thing? Like don't get wrong it's brought up a lot of issues, just how is that event still a thing?

On this forum? MRAs echo chambering about how feminists are out to ruin video games and the entire world.

... You know I don't normally use images on here but let me use one for a second.



I'll admit that alot about so called "gamegate" I've stayed away from. Oh not because I don't care. I care alot about both the issues of critiquing gender tropes, and sponsorship deals and such, but literally... from day one, even before it was named "gamergate", it has been a horrid toxic mess spawn by something 4chan to the point I want no part of it. Plus for all the feminist stuff... i didn't, and don't care. It's a view point and it's only going to change in the medium if people make the games they want from what the want changed about games (and other media) now. Prove they have a market, and that's what we as collective consumers want (more of). Otherwise, This irrational fear isn't going to come to pass.

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:

Haktiva wrote:Mostly I see it as women butting into traditionally male only spaces. They like to sanitize it and make it "safe". Saloons were traditionally only male, but then we had the temperance movement and now were have "ladies nights".

Gaming is perhaps the latest battleground(hence gamergate in a way). Mostly it was guys who played, the vast majority are still guys. Now women want in(probably for attention) and we have all this controversy.

You know you come off as a bigot, right?
A lot of those places used to also be traditionally white places.
And I know plenty of girl gamers who are definitely not doing it for the attention.

There's also sports and such. However, the destruction of a male space is usually on a smaller scale as far as I can tell. It's what I call marriage, especially nowadays.

How is marriage the destruction of a male space? What the fuck are you on about?

Are... are you the partriarchy?

*clasps hands together and laughs manically*

Nah, I'm not a tradcon. I laugh at MRAs as much I as I do feminists.

That's actually a good point, but I don't think women were too welcome in all black saloons. people are called minorities for a reason. I very much doubt I can go to a bar in Nigeria and be welcome there because I'm not local.

and do those girls you know just play to have fun or are they the ones who cry foul whenever a problem goes on? trust me, I've met waaaaaay bigger nets than I am who are female.

Haktiva wrote:

Nelson R Mandela wrote:No, that's not what I'm saying. I personally feel like there is already enough social equality in our modern times than there ever was, at least in USA. I find it unnecessary for one to even consider support the movement today.

feminism in the west is all about first world problems.

Haha true!

Fanosolia wrote:

Gauthier wrote:
On this forum? MRAs echo chambering about how feminists are out to ruin video games and the entire world.

... You know I don't normally use images on here but let me use one for a second.

I'll admit that alot about so called "gamegate" I've stayed away from. Oh not because I don't care. I care alot about both the issues of critiquing gender tropes, and sponsorship deals and such, but literally... from day one, even before it was named "gamergate", it has been a horrid toxic mess spawn by something 4chan to the point I want no part of it. Plus for all the feminist stuff... i didn't, and don't care. It's a view point and it's only going to change in the medium if people make the games they want from what the want changed about games (and other media) now. Prove they have a market, and that's what we as collective consumers want (more of). Otherwise, This irrational fear isn't going to come to pass.

yeah that's my position as well. the free market goes with whoever votes more with their wallets. feminist games aren't gonna make a lot of money because most guys aren't interested in that(I say this because most gamers are guys, so games pander to them the same way romantic comedy movies pander to couples and assault rifles pander to anti-government wackos..... wait, scratch that last part)

Nelson R Mandela wrote:

Haktiva wrote:feminism in the west is all about first world problems.

Haha true!

why isn't feminism in the middle east? well it is, but not quite to the extent we have it here. more women are probably more concerned about them and their families not starving to death or being slaughtered by savages as opposed to being paid the same amount of funny money for busywork.

Haktiva wrote:yeah that's my position as well. the free market goes with whoever votes more with their wallets. feminist games aren't gonna make a lot of money because most guys aren't interested in that(I say this because most gamers are guys, so games pander to them the same way romantic comedy movies pander to couples and assault rifles pander to anti-government wackos..... wait, scratch that last part)

Barely. 48% of people who play video games are women. That is a big market share.
http://www.dailydot.com/geek/adult-wome ... mographic/

Haktiva wrote:why isn't feminism in the middle east? well it is, but not quite to the extent we have it here. more women are probably more concerned about them and their families not starving to death or being slaughtered by savages as opposed to being paid the same amount of funny money for busywork.

"Savages"... wonderful.

And I would guess the commonality of patriarchal religious extremism has something to do with it. It is however on the rise.
http://www.thenation.com/article/177467 ... -feminists

Haktiva wrote:

Nelson R Mandela wrote:Haha true!

why isn't feminism in the middle east? well it is, but not quite to the extent we have it here. more women are probably more concerned about them and their families not starving to death or being slaughtered by savages as opposed to being paid the same amount of funny money for busywork.

That's a good point you're making. Although I don't know too much of the culture and tradition of typical middle eastern families I can say it's just the difference of culture and tradition between typical middle eastern families and western families. Then again, there are extremists for every minority/majority group!

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:

Haktiva wrote:yeah that's my position as well. the free market goes with whoever votes more with their wallets. feminist games aren't gonna make a lot of money because most guys aren't interested in that(I say this because most gamers are guys, so games pander to them the same way romantic comedy movies pander to couples and assault rifles pander to anti-government wackos..... wait, scratch that last part)

Barely. 48% of people who play video games are women. That is a big market share.
http://www.dailydot.com/geek/adult-wome ... mographic/

Haktiva wrote:why isn't feminism in the middle east? well it is, but not quite to the extent we have it here. more women are probably more concerned about them and their families not starving to death or being slaughtered by savages as opposed to being paid the same amount of funny money for busywork.

"Savages"... wonderful.

And I would guess the commonality of patriarchal religious extremism has something to do with it. It is however on the rise.
http://www.thenation.com/article/177467 ... -feminists

"And it's easy to see why. While the study didn't assess the age or gender demographics of specific games"

Yeah that kind of inflates the numbers a bit. Casual gamers and the nerdy kind like me are pretty different, but we haven't gotten into that and gamergate has its own thread.

I don't know what else to call people who cut heads off and execute people who can't fight back. and you're right, that is a patriarchy. most guys are busy killing each other while using women more or less as breeding cattle to keep the numbers up.

here in the west..... well I dunno. I find it pretty funny when a woman beats the shit out of some guy who tried to mess with her(legitimately, not the ones who know it's socially unacceptable for a guy to fight back) and to watch a woman get smacked when she deserves it. I'm just a hateful person all around, so I don't much care for either side. better to watch on the sidelines and laugh at the insanity. Best to go your own way.

Nelson R Mandela wrote:

Haktiva wrote:why isn't feminism in the middle east? well it is, but not quite to the extent we have it here. more women are probably more concerned about them and their families not starving to death or being slaughtered by savages as opposed to being paid the same amount of funny money for busywork.

That's a good point you're making. Although I don't know too much of the culture and tradition of typical middle eastern families I can say it's just the difference of culture and tradition between typical middle eastern families and western families. Then again, there are extremists for every minority/majority group!

no it's only white, european cisgender males!

in all seriousness, it's all one type of gynocentrism or another.

Haktiva wrote:

Fanosolia wrote:
... You know I don't normally use images on here but let me use one for a second.

(Image)

I'll admit that alot about so called "gamegate" I've stayed away from. Oh not because I don't care. I care alot about both the issues of critiquing gender tropes, and sponsorship deals and such, but literally... from day one, even before it was named "gamergate", it has been a horrid toxic mess spawn by something 4chan to the point I want no part of it. Plus for all the feminist stuff... i didn't, and don't care. It's a view point and it's only going to change in the medium if people make the games they want from what the want changed about games (and other media) now. Prove they have a market, and that's what we as collective consumers want (more of). Otherwise, This irrational fear isn't going to come to pass.

yeah that's my position as well. the free market goes with whoever votes more with their wallets. feminist games aren't gonna make a lot of money because most guys aren't interested in that(I say this because most gamers are guys, so games pander to them the same way romantic comedy movies pander to couples and assault rifles pander to anti-government wackos..... wait, scratch that last part)

I don't know. I've toyed around with the odd game that has romance not be as easy as having a high enough X stat. After all, not every persons in the games going to want to sleep with me no matter how high that stat is. (this was a criticism of vampire of masquerade bloodlines so I'm using that as an example.) Some of them having marriages or partners already or just not attracted to you in some way. It's not just about smooth talking.

Or as extra credits pointed out, perhaps is to work rejection of the player's attempt at a bioware-eque relationship from a party member be part of the game's story. How does your character deal with the rejection? Can you really say that last one wouldn't sell if it was written well? (weird because I must be in the weird land of exceptions then where ladies play cod XD)

(and yes I know gamer gate was it's own thread, but I wanted to make the point anyways.)

Haktiva wrote:Yeah that kind of inflates the numbers a bit. Casual gamers and the nerdy kind like me are pretty different, but we haven't gotten into that and gamergate has its own thread.

So you ignore the numbers by assuming that the games that you play are more true than the games they play.

You know, you would be a great subject for fallacy bingo.