Christian Discussion Thread V

[Diopolis]

Gluttony is not the only cause of obesity.

Okay. That does not answer my question. Why should I take my moral inspiration from a man that can't practice self-control.

Because obesity does not necessarily mean he can't practice self control.

[Cannabis Islands]

Okay. That does not answer my question. Why should I take my moral inspiration from a man that can't practice self-control.

Because obesity does not necessarily mean he can't practice self control.

Ah, but it fair to assume that. I will ask for a third and final time, why should I take my moral inspiration from a person that does not have self-control?

[Grave_n_idle]

Because obesity does not necessarily mean he can't practice self control.

Ah, but it fair to assume that. I will ask for a third and final time, why should I take my moral inspiration from a person that does not have self-control?

Why repeat a question when you're not interested in any of the serious answers that have been given?

Obesity isn't always due to self-control. Indeed, in our current environment, I'd argue it's rarely an issue of self-control.

But that's actually almost irrelevant. Priests (of whatever denomination) are human, and humans are flawed. You're not consulting a priest because he's holy - but because he's got education and experience in answering spiritual questions.


But, again - I don't think you're actually interested in getting a real answer... so why don't you just go ahead and tell us which answer you think is right?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Because obesity does not necessarily mean he can't practice self control.

Ah, but it fair to assume that. I will ask for a third and final time, why should I take my moral inspiration from a person that does not have self-control?

Promise?

[Cannabis Islands]

Ah, but it fair to assume that. I will ask for a third and final time, why should I take my moral inspiration from a person that does not have self-control?

Promise?

Yes, and I believe it is an issue of self-control for most people.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

Promise?

Yes, and I believe it is an issue of self-control for most people.

Medicine and genetics disagrees otherwise. Some people are just destined to be more fatter or more weigher than others because of their genes, or their body. Look at obesity comparisons between different ethnic groups.

[Grave_n_idle]

Promise?

Yes, and I believe it is an issue of self-control for most people.

Belief is like an opinion. Everyone gets to have it, but they're not all equal.

And, in your case, they are probably wrong.

[Cannabis Islands]

Yes, and I believe it is an issue of self-control for most people.

Belief is like an opinion. Everyone gets to have it, but they're not all equal.

And, in your case, they are probably wrong.

I will just leave this study right here: http://mfan.iweb.bsu.edu/Papers/Appl.%2 ... 125-45.pdf

[Grave_n_idle]

Belief is like an opinion. Everyone gets to have it, but they're not all equal.

And, in your case, they are probably wrong.

I will just leave this study right here: http://mfan.iweb.bsu.edu/Papers/Appl.%2 ... 125-45.pdf

I've already read it, which - I suspect - puts me at an advantage over you, because I'm pretty sure you haven't.

Not just because you appear to be reading it's interpretations backwards (they say that they find reduced self-control in obese people, not that self-control is the cause of obesity), but because they also heavily qualify that their results do not apply to people with poor diets, poor environments, long-working hours, poverty, or reduced access to healthcare.

In short - I'm pretty sure you've never actually read the source you cite... or any other serious research on the subject.

[Cannabis Islands]

I will just leave this study right here: http://mfan.iweb.bsu.edu/Papers/Appl.%2 ... 125-45.pdf

I've already read it, which - I suspect - puts me at an advantage over you, because I'm pretty sure you haven't.

Not just because you appear to be reading it's interpretations backwards (they say that they find reduced self-control in obese people, not that self-control is the cause of obesity), but because they also heavily qualify that their results do not apply to people with poor diets, poor environments, long-working hours, poverty, or reduced access to healthcare.

In short - I'm pretty sure you've never actually read the source you cite... or any other serious research on the subject.

I did read it. That's were my claim comes from. I believe that is lack of self-control that can keep people obese, especially in the United States.
Here is another article:
http://content.time.com/time/health/art ... 42,00.html
But obesity and it causes it's not the thread topic. I chose a topic related to Christianity, and people turn this into "you're fat shamin obesity and it causes it's not the thread topic. I chose a topic related to Christianity, and people turn this into "you're fat shaming"

[Grave_n_idle]

I've already read it, which - I suspect - puts me at an advantage over you, because I'm pretty sure you haven't.

Not just because you appear to be reading it's interpretations backwards (they say that they find reduced self-control in obese people, not that self-control is the cause of obesity), but because they also heavily qualify that their results do not apply to people with poor diets, poor environments, long-working hours, poverty, or reduced access to healthcare.

In short - I'm pretty sure you've never actually read the source you cite... or any other serious research on the subject.

I did read it. That's were my claim comes from. I believe that is lack of self-control that can keep people obese, especially in the United States.
Here is another article:
http://content.time.com/time/health/art ... 42,00.html
But obesity and it causes it's not the thread topic. I chose a topic related to Christianity, and people turn this into "you're fat shamin obesity and it causes it's not the thread topic. I chose a topic related to Christianity, and people turn this into "you're fat shaming"

No, you're missing the point.

You turned it into a discussion about how a religious leader couldn't be trusted to be moral because he was fat.

It was pointed out to you that fatness isn't necessarily a moral issue, and YOU made it into a major debate.

[Cannabis Islands]

I did read it. That's were my claim comes from. I believe that is lack of self-control that can keep people obese, especially in the United States.
Here is another article:
http://content.time.com/time/health/art ... 42,00.html
But obesity and it causes it's not the thread topic. I chose a topic related to Christianity, and people turn this into "you're fat shamin obesity and it causes it's not the thread topic. I chose a topic related to Christianity, and people turn this into "you're fat shaming"

No, you're missing the point.

You turned it into a discussion about how a religious leader couldn't be trusted to be moral because he was fat.

It was pointed out to you that fatness isn't necessarily a moral issue, and YOU made it into a major debate.

*looks at list of seven deadly sins*
Yep, Gluttony is still on there

[The Flutterlands]

No, you're missing the point.

You turned it into a discussion about how a religious leader couldn't be trusted to be moral because he was fat.

It was pointed out to you that fatness isn't necessarily a moral issue, and YOU made it into a major debate.

*looks at list of seven deadly sins*
Yep, Gluttony is still on there

Gluttony isn't always sinful. It's okay to indulge yourself during special occasions, but it does become sinful when you always overindulge yourself.

[Cannabis Islands]

*looks at list of seven deadly sins*
Yep, Gluttony is still on there

Gluttony isn't always sinful. It's okay to indulge yourself during special occasions, but it does become sinful when you always overindulge yourself.

And it's fair to assume that those who are obese are over eating on a regular basis.

[Grave_n_idle]

No, you're missing the point.

You turned it into a discussion about how a religious leader couldn't be trusted to be moral because he was fat.

It was pointed out to you that fatness isn't necessarily a moral issue, and YOU made it into a major debate.

*looks at list of seven deadly sins*
Yep, Gluttony is still on there

Obesity isn't necessarily linked to gluttony.

Now you're just back to rehashing the same bullshit.

[Scyobayrynn]

Seriously, why is this even being entertained.

[Benuty]

Seriously, why is this even being entertained.

What the question about gluttony or the thread in general?

[The Flutterlands]

You know what's interesting? Jews don't believe in Satan the same way we do. They believe that Satan is an agent of God, rather than an enemy, who's purpose is to test us. Any thoughts on that?

[Scyobayrynn]

Seriously, why is this even being entertained.

What the question about gluttony or the thread in general?

The circular "discussion" that manages to insult the obese, the clergy, misrepresent the sinfulness of gluttony, rinse repeat over again on into infinity.

Fact obesity does not equal lack of self control. No matter how often something to the contrary is blathered out and reworded form.
Fact gluttony is not synonymous with obesity. No matter how often something to the contrary is blathered.
Fact obesity has no bearing on one's ability to be a sound spiritual advisor.

Those points have been restated several times, that they had to be stated at all is indicative of not discussion but a contrarian merely being argumentative for the sake of antagonism.

So again, why is it being entertained?

[Benuty]

You know what's interesting? Jews don't believe in Satan the same way we do. They believe that Satan is an agent of God, rather than an enemy, who's purpose is to test us. Any thoughts on that?

What is really interesting is the fact of how many times Satan is referenced in the Tanach/Old "Testament" compared to the New Testament. The latter being referenced two or three times more so when compared to the three known references in the former.

[Grave_n_idle]

You know what's interesting? Jews don't believe in Satan the same way we do. They believe that Satan is an agent of God, rather than an enemy, who's purpose is to test us. Any thoughts on that?

It's not actually that inconsistent.

Jews consider haSatan to be the adversary of men, not of god.

When Jesus uses the same phrasing, he is referring to men acting adversarial.

All this Satan-king-of-hell stuff comes from post-Jesus theology.

[Aelex]

It's not actually that inconsistent.

Jews consider haSatan to be the adversary of men, not of god.

When Jesus uses the same phrasing, he is referring to men acting adversarial.

All this Satan-king-of-hell stuff comes from post-Jesus theology.

And Demonology. Mostly Demonology. But since it was mostly wannabe Alchemists who wrote the majority of books about it, I doubt it really have that much theological weight anyway.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

You know what's interesting? Jews don't believe in Satan the same way we do. They believe that Satan is an agent of God, rather than an enemy, who's purpose is to test us. Any thoughts on that?

It's not actually that inconsistent.

Jews consider haSatan to be the adversary of men, not of god.

When Jesus uses the same phrasing, he is referring to men acting adversarial.

All this Satan-king-of-hell stuff comes from post-Jesus theology.

Satan is not even the King of Hell, the Scriptures tell nothing of Satan ruling Hell. If anything, he's even one of the tormented in Hell.

[The Flutterlands]

It's not actually that inconsistent.

Jews consider haSatan to be the adversary of men, not of god.

When Jesus uses the same phrasing, he is referring to men acting adversarial.

All this Satan-king-of-hell stuff comes from post-Jesus theology.

Satan is not even the King of Hell, the Scriptures tell nothing of Satan ruling Hell. If anything, he's even one of the tormented in Hell.

We know that, but that still seems to be a 'man-made' doctrine, since that Judaism, where Christianity comes from, don't believe in the fallen-angel satan.

[Scyobayrynn]

Satan is not even the King of Hell, the Scriptures tell nothing of Satan ruling Hell. If anything, he's even one of the tormented in Hell.

We know that, but that still seems to be a 'man-made' doctrine, since that Judaism, where Christianity comes from, don't believe in the fallen-angel satan.

Biblical(new testament) references to Satan don't really conflict with his Jewish adversarial origins.

No fallen angel mythology need be taken seriously sans scriptural backing, of which to my knowledge there is none, though I have heard the "Prophecy" films quoted like scripture as well as Milton...go figure.