NationStates

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:20 pm**

Menassa wrote:
Efraim-Judah wrote:Your law is only outward.
Messiah allowed the law to be written on our hearts, the law for US is Inwardly not outwardly.

What does that statment mean "to be written in their hearts"

Jeremiah says it means that EVERYONE will know of God and they will no longer need to teach each other. That's not the world we live in Effy.

We continue to sin, so the law written in our hearts continues to obfuscate us. Christ's actions continue to cleanse our hearts, so that we can see the law.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:22 pm**

Gim wrote:
Menassa wrote:What does that statment mean "to be written in their hearts"

Jeremiah says it means that EVERYONE will know of God and they will no longer need to teach each other. That's not the world we live in Effy.

We continue to sin, so the law written in our hearts continues to obfuscate us. Christ's actions continue to cleanse our hearts, so that we can see the law.

I am confused. Do you live in Covenant with Adonai?

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:23 pm**

Efraim-Judah wrote:
Gim wrote:
We continue to sin, so the law written in our hearts continues to obfuscate us. Christ's actions continue to cleanse our hearts, so that we can see the law.

I am confused. Do you live in Covenant with Adonai?

I mean, if we have the law engraved in our hearts, why aren't we abiding by them all the time in a perfect manner? Is there a logical explanation for that?

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:25 pm**

Gim wrote:
Menassa wrote:What does that statment mean "to be written in their hearts"

Jeremiah says it means that EVERYONE will know of God and they will no longer need to teach each other. That's not the world we live in Effy.

We continue to sin, so the law written in our hearts continues to obfuscate us. Christ's actions continue to cleanse our hearts, so that we can see the law.

If are taking the notion that the Protestants believe that the law acts as a 'mirror' this is disapproved by Moses's words that Paul seems to exclude.

Deuteronomy 30:14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

Romas 10:8
But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:28 pm**

Menassa wrote:
Gim wrote:
We continue to sin, so the law written in our hearts continues to obfuscate us. Christ's actions continue to cleanse our hearts, so that we can see the law.

If are taking the notion that the Protestants believe that the law acts as a 'mirror' this is disapproved by Moses's words that Paul seems to exclude.

Well, the thing is, we should all strive to abide by the laws of Jesus Christ. If you continue to disregard it, even if you know that the law should be abided, then God has no choice but to disregard you. However, similar to humans, even if you were irrelevant and you start acting in a relevant manner, God will take you back, because he knows you will abide by his laws again. God's state of mind is two-way.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:31 pm**

Gim wrote:
Menassa wrote:If are taking the notion that the Protestants believe that the law acts as a 'mirror' this is disapproved by Moses's words that Paul seems to exclude.

Well, the thing is, we should all strive to abide by the laws of Jesus Christ. If you continue to disregard it, even if you know that the law should be abided, then God has no choice but to disregard you. However, similar to humans, even if you were irrelevant and you start acting in a relevant manner, God will take you back, because he knows you will abide by his laws again. God's state of mind is two-way.

That post that I made was incorrect, please refer to my new post.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:34 pm**

Menassa wrote:
Gim wrote:
Well, the thing is, we should all strive to abide by the laws of Jesus Christ. If you continue to disregard it, even if you know that the law should be abided, then God has no choice but to disregard you. However, similar to humans, even if you were irrelevant and you start acting in a relevant manner, God will take you back, because he knows you will abide by his laws again. God's state of mind is two-way.

That post that I made was incorrect, please refer to my new post.

Yes, you have a choice whether to obey God's words. God binds the law in your heart, but we do not necessarily obey it entirely. We make a choice all the time whether to obey it or not. Do we make a white lie about a girl who is too fat to wear 34-size jeans? It's a choice.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:36 pm**

Gim wrote:
Menassa wrote:That post that I made was incorrect, please refer to my new post.

Yes, you have a choice whether to obey God's words. God binds the law in your heart, but we do not necessarily obey it entirely. We make a choice all the time whether to obey it or not. Do we make a white lie about a girl who is too fat to wear 34-size jeans? It's a choice.

That has nothing to do with whether the Law is now 'in our hearts or not' Moses says that the Law is there for us to obey. Actually keep the commandments, Paul however says that it's in our hearts. Most, if not all Jews, are going to go with Moses over Paul, any day of the week.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:45 pm**

Efraim-Judah wrote:
Gim wrote:
Wait. What do you mean by the U.S. law being "inward"?

U.S. law? No. Mosaic Law.

The law for Messianics is inward. Where the law for a Non-Messianic is only outward.

And what exactly does that mean?

It's empty rhetoric. Empty rhetoric does not justify rewriting the Law.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:46 pm**

Menassa wrote:
Gim wrote:
Yes, you have a choice whether to obey God's words. God binds the law in your heart, but we do not necessarily obey it entirely. We make a choice all the time whether to obey it or not. Do we make a white lie about a girl who is too fat to wear 34-size jeans? It's a choice.

That has nothing to do with whether the Law is now 'in our hearts or not' Moses says that the Law is there for us to obey. Actually keep the commandments, Paul however says that it's in our hearts. Most, if not all Jews, are going to go with Moses over Paul, any day of the week.

Perhaps, the idea of the Law being written in our hearts is conscience. I mean, we have an inherent feeling of guilt, when we committed wrongdoing, such as murder, adultery, deceit, and etc.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:47 pm**

Gim wrote:
Menassa wrote:That has nothing to do with whether the Law is now 'in our hearts or not' Moses says that the Law is there for us to obey. Actually keep the commandments, Paul however says that it's in our hearts. Most, if not all Jews, are going to go with Moses over Paul, any day of the week.

Perhaps, the idea of the Law being written in our hearts is conscience. I mean, we have an inherent feeling of guilt, when we committed wrongdoing, such as murder, adultery, deceit, and etc.

So what you're saying, is that up until the time of Jesus, no one felt guilt?

Hmm, I wonder why David expressed his guilt so many times during the psalms...

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:50 pm**

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Efraim-Judah wrote:U.S. law? No. Mosaic Law.

The law for Messianics is inward. Where the law for a Non-Messianic is only outward.

And what exactly does that mean?

It's empty rhetoric. Empty rhetoric does not justify rewriting the Law.

The law of God wasn't rewritten. It was placed upon the heart of those who follow it and follow the teachings of Messiah.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:50 pm**

Efraim-Judah wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
And what exactly does that mean?

It's empty rhetoric. Empty rhetoric does not justify rewriting the Law.

The law of God wasn't rewritten. It was placed upon the heart of those who follow it and follow the teachings of Messiah.

I mean, what exactly does he mean by "rewriting the Law"?

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:51 pm**

Efraim-Judah wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
And what exactly does that mean?

It's empty rhetoric. Empty rhetoric does not justify rewriting the Law.

The law of God wasn't rewritten. It was placed upon the heart of those who follow it and follow the teachings of Messiah.

You see, that doesn't actually mean anything... it's just empty rhetoric.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:53 pm**

Menassa wrote:
Efraim-Judah wrote:The law of God wasn't rewritten. It was placed upon the heart of those who follow it and follow the teachings of Messiah.

You see, that doesn't actually mean anything... it's just empty rhetoric.

Of course it does. No longer are we sepulchurs which are outwardly beautiful but on this inside contain only death, but instead become like the Temple which is both outwardly and inwardly beautiful.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:55 pm**

Efraim-Judah wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
And what exactly does that mean?

It's empty rhetoric. Empty rhetoric does not justify rewriting the Law.

The law of God wasn't rewritten. It was placed upon the heart of those who follow it and follow the teachings of Messiah.

Again, meaningless.

I mean, you're borrowing from the best - even I'm impressed by Charles Haddon Spurgeon - but it was hollow rhetoric when he said it, too.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:56 pm**

Efraim-Judah wrote:
Menassa wrote:You see, that doesn't actually mean anything... it's just empty rhetoric.

Of course it does. No longer are we sepulchurs which are outwardly beautiful but on this inside contain only death, but instead become like the Temple which is both outwardly and inwardly beautiful.

Do you have anything that's not a metaphor?

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:56 pm**

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Efraim-Judah wrote:The law of God wasn't rewritten. It was placed upon the heart of those who follow it and follow the teachings of Messiah.

Again, meaningless.

I mean, you're borrowing from the best - even I'm impressed by Charles Haddon Spurgeon - but it was hollow rhetoric when he said it, too.

Do you have a substantial argument towards saying that the Law was rewritten? I mean, we still keep the Ten Commandments, do we not?

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:58 pm**

Gim wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
Again, meaningless.

I mean, you're borrowing from the best - even I'm impressed by Charles Haddon Spurgeon - but it was hollow rhetoric when he said it, too.

Do you have a substantial argument towards saying that the Law was rewritten? I mean, we still keep the Ten Commandments, do we not?

No you do not.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:03 pm**

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Efraim-Judah wrote:Of course it does. No longer are we sepulchurs which are outwardly beautiful but on this inside contain only death, but instead become like the Temple which is both outwardly and inwardly beautiful.

Do you have anything that's not a metaphor?

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:04 pm**

Gim wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
Again, meaningless.

I mean, you're borrowing from the best - even I'm impressed by Charles Haddon Spurgeon - but it was hollow rhetoric when he said it, too.

Do you have a substantial argument towards saying that the Law was rewritten? I mean, we still keep the Ten Commandments, do we not?

No.

You'd be hard pressed to provide a good argument that 'christians' follow even one. You even follow a guy that says there were only two.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:19 pm**

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Gim wrote:
Do you have a substantial argument towards saying that the Law was rewritten? I mean, we still keep the Ten Commandments, do we not?

No.

You'd be hard pressed to provide a good argument that 'christians' follow even one. You even follow a guy that says there were only two.

Well, biblical text is better than nothing.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:22 pm**

Ithqington wrote:What political view people in this Thread have? what is your Pro and Anti?

"'Show me the tribute-coin?' And they brought to him a denary; and he says to them, `Whose [is] this image and the inscription?' They say to him,
`Caesar's;' then says he to them,
`Render therefore the things of Caesar to Caesar, and the things of God to God.'" - Mat. 22:19-21

"Jesus, therefore, having known that they are about to come, and to take him by force that they may make him king, retired again to the mountain himself alone." - Joh. 6:15

"And Jesus having called them near, said, `You have known that the rulers of the nations do exercise lordship over them, and those great do exercise authority over them, but not so shall it be among you, but whoever may will among you to become great, let him be your minister; and whoever may will among you to be first, let him be your servant; even as the Son of Man did not come to be ministered to, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.'" - Mat. 20:25-28

"Jesus answered, `My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to Judeans; but now my kingdom is not from here.'" - Joh. 18:36

And of course:

"Let every soul to the higher authorities be subject, for there is no authority except from God, and the authorities existing are appointed by God, so that he who is setting himself against the authority, against God's ordinance has resisted; and those resisting, to themselves shall receive judgment. For those ruling are not a terror to the good works, but to the evil; and do thou wish not to be afraid of the authority? that which is good be doing, and thou shall have praise from it, for of God it is a minister to thee for good; and if that which is evil thou may do, be fearing, for not in vain does it bear the sword; for of God it is a minister, an avenger for wrath to him who is doing that which is evil. Why it is necessary to be subject, not only because of the wrath, but also because of the conscience, for because of this also pay you tribute; for servants of God they are, on this very thing attending continually; render, therefore, to all dues; to whom tribute, the tribute; to whom custom, the custom; to whom fear, the fear; to whom honour, the honour." - Rom. 13:1-7

Interpreted in light of:

"And having called them, they charged them not to speak at all, nor to teach, in the name of Jesus, and Petros and Ioannes answering to them said,
`Whether it is righteous before God to listen to you rather than to God, judge you; for we cannot but speak what we did see and hear.''' - Act. 4:18-20

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:22 pm**

Gim wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
No.

You'd be hard pressed to provide a good argument that 'christians' follow even one. You even follow a guy that says there were only two.

Well, biblical text is better than nothing.

Not sure how that's a response. Also, even less sure it's true.

(There's a lot of admirable stuff, but there's also a fair bit of genocide, rape, murder, and babies having their heads dashed against rocks).

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:24 pm**

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Gim wrote:
Well, biblical text is better than nothing.

Not sure how that's a response. Also, even less sure it's true.

(There's a lot of admirable stuff, but there's also a fair bit of genocide, rape, murder, and babies having their heads dashed against rocks).

Which is what sinful humans caused, not God.

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