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It should be a Crime to make False Election Promises

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
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Posts: 21993
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:45 pm

Quintium wrote:I'm not sure if criminal prosecution is the right path. However, I am in favour of a system where specific election promises about certain policies are held to be a binding promise in civil law to every individual citizen, and where every citizen can get the courts involved to force the politician to do what he promised if he is in some way able to deliver but will not. This is especially relevant to my country, where we now have a premier who was elected after saying that, if elected, he would ensure a one-time payment of €1000 to every working citizen in the country, but who raised taxes.

Sigh... No, he didn't promise 1000 euros to every workin citizen in the country, and I would appreciate it if you didn't use false information for the sake of argument. Rutte promised tax reductions equalling about a 1000 euros per person, and those were implemented silently. If you voted on the VVD because of that promise, you didn't use your right to vote well, did you?
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.
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Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

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Murkwood
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7806
Founded: Apr 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Murkwood » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:47 pm

Hah, no.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Othelos
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Posts: 12729
Founded: Feb 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Othelos » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:04 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Othelos wrote:This is an idiotic idea, considering that it won't actually DO anything. Politicians will just get around it by saying, "I will work to achieve..." instead of "I will achieve..."

plus, it's pretty unfair, considering circumstances might not be friendly towards achieving a goal.


Its still progress.

If they say they will work to achieve something

1) they are not lying anymore if they actually do work to achieve the goal (you shouldn't say, I will do X because it sounds better when really you mean, I will WORK to do X), honesty

2) If there are forces in the law which compel them after election to ACTUALLY work towards X to a degree that will satisfy law enforcement/the courts, then that is still progress

Today's politicians? ''I will do X.'' when they get elected, don't even try to do X.

I still sense progress. At least we're moving to politicians saying ''I will work to try and achieve X'' and then actually doing it in a measurable way once elected to avoid prosecution and keep their word.

I don't know why you think that. Changing the way they phrase the statement isn't going to alter the circumstances of their success.

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Infected Mushroom
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Posts: 39286
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:09 pm

Othelos wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Its still progress.

If they say they will work to achieve something

1) they are not lying anymore if they actually do work to achieve the goal (you shouldn't say, I will do X because it sounds better when really you mean, I will WORK to do X), honesty

2) If there are forces in the law which compel them after election to ACTUALLY work towards X to a degree that will satisfy law enforcement/the courts, then that is still progress

Today's politicians? ''I will do X.'' when they get elected, don't even try to do X.

I still sense progress. At least we're moving to politicians saying ''I will work to try and achieve X'' and then actually doing it in a measurable way once elected to avoid prosecution and keep their word.

I don't know why you think that. Changing the way they phrase the statement isn't going to alter the circumstances of their success.


it reinforces expectations of honesty and accountability

If I say X, and voters rely on your statement of X, then you should do X. If that means phrasing X carefully or explicitly narrowing/qualifying down what is included in X, this changes the norms of politics for the better.

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Othelos
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Posts: 12729
Founded: Feb 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Othelos » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:27 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Othelos wrote:I don't know why you think that. Changing the way they phrase the statement isn't going to alter the circumstances of their success.


it reinforces expectations of honesty and accountability

If I say X, and voters rely on your statement of X, then you should do X. If that means phrasing X carefully or explicitly narrowing/qualifying down what is included in X, this changes the norms of politics for the better.

Not really. Rhetoric is rhetoric.

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Infected Mushroom
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Posts: 39286
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:29 pm

Othelos wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
it reinforces expectations of honesty and accountability

If I say X, and voters rely on your statement of X, then you should do X. If that means phrasing X carefully or explicitly narrowing/qualifying down what is included in X, this changes the norms of politics for the better.

Not really. Rhetoric is rhetoric.


Rhetoric just causes confusion and a lack of accountability. It also promotes an ethic of irresponsibility.

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