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A view of conservatives, from a conservative

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Does Christianity matter in politics?

Poll ended at Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:28 pm

No it does not.
75
63%
It does, but depending on the person.
20
17%
Yes, it always matters.
15
13%
I really don't care either way.
9
8%
 
Total votes : 119

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Christainville
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A view of conservatives, from a conservative

Postby Christainville » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:28 pm

I wanted to talk on a few thing as a Christian and conservative, that currently are things I see going on daily.

1st off, separation of church and state is used and abused by both sides. In political talks, I hear a lot of more left leaning people say instead of doing dumb things like protesting over abortion and what not, why wont Christians solve world issues, like hunger and what not. Well, for the record, some do, but they are hated because they are religious, Christian, in nature, which then makes them old world and un effective, so they want to provide a result that the world demands but wont let them give, so in a sense how can they do anything? Now, even as a conservative, I don't want faith being the whole base of politics. Faith should be a choice, not forced. Its just, even atheists, have a faith. they have a faith there is no god, as we have a faith God leads us through out life. So, we all have a faith in one way or another, ours just became the realization that there is more out there then just us. So, what does that have to do with church and state? Why would a Texas mayor order pastors give over sermons if this old world system had no power? If this church was fake and could do nothing, why would people demand separation of church and state, which leads to my second point.

2nd. Most Christians and conservatives are not scared, and do not have a phobia of Islam. One thing I notice, because we don't accept something, people equate it with a fear, but then when other people don't accept something, its a civil right? Well, I wont lie, there are some people that miss represent Christians and conservatives. Its just, in a 21st century world, where women's rights is a huge political topic, we also take up for a culture that endorses the beating of women that are raped. So, do we accept what's behind to move forward? This is just one version of how we move forward but bring what's behind us with it and call it a future. Its not that I or any other conservative is scared of a Islamic person, its just we cant over look the bad things that are happening, the same as I can say with some people that call themselves "Christians" but have a hard time actually showing the love and compassion Christ commanded. Yet, does the love and compassion demand that you over look things that are wrong, things that are dangerous, things that cause issues? Nope, but you should reprimand in love of another person, and not in hate, and that's the things so many have failed at.

3rd and my final thing. This one will get me in a lot of trouble with the more liberal side of politics. Civil rights didn't come from man, because if they did, nothing would be civil. If we legislate morality, you push people to do the opposite, but do you over look un moral actions, nope. Through out history, what was defined as civil was ever changing, is that what we would want in our nations, in our cities? To have a ever changing format of what's right and wrong, what acceptable, to only have freedom and justice if your on the side of the political party that won the most recently election. A example of this is the recent Indiana bill, using religious freedom, discrimination occurs, and that's what religion should not be used for. My question is, do we become so secular and so accepting, that we block out groups and views that can do good, but because of the name we don't allow them to do anything? We allowed Islam into the 21st century with out changing a lot, all I ask is that Christians be allowed the same with out chaining their faith to meet the current political views. Because, in the end, what good is faith if every other person determines it, except a unchanging standard that is the headline for what you believe in. That's why for me, Christianity and conservative ideas, will never be split. Its true, their are liberal Christians, and some liberal ideas work fine, make a good economy, make a good place to live in. Yet, its the idea of non-chaining standards, morals that help some one live a good life, and the belief that by doing this, we make things better in the hope for a brighter future. And for me, that should actually be conservatism.

I know the more liberal side will hate everything I wrote her probably, but hey, I want a honest discussion, a honest view, pull apart what I said, if its the truth, it should stand firm. So, my question is, the things I wrote down, should that be real conservatism, should it be accepted, in a 21st century world should Christianity play a part? Lets have a honest discussion, and lets try to keep it civil with out a lot of cursing and what not.
Last edited by Christainville on Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:32 pm

Civil rights didn't come from man, because if they did, nothing would be civil.

How does that work, are humans inherently evil and violent? I get where conservatives come from on this, but I don't like where that leads.
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Kelinfort
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Postby Kelinfort » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:05 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Civil rights didn't come from man, because if they did, nothing would be civil.

How does that work, are humans inherently evil and violent? I get where conservatives come from on this, but I don't like where that leads.

If so, why not adopt a Hobbesian view of government and the indvidual?

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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:09 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Civil rights didn't come from man, because if they did, nothing would be civil.

How does that work, are humans inherently evil and violent? I get where conservatives come from on this, but I don't like where that leads.

We aren't inherently evil, though humans do have a tendency towards violence. We also have a tendency towards compassion and empathy, which is where Rights in general come from.

Saying that Rights don't come from Man is a very silly thing to say.
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Sun Wukong
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Postby Sun Wukong » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:10 pm

Christainville wrote:Its just, even atheists, have a faith. they have a faith there is no god

It would be nice if conservatives could go even a paragraph without lying about and insulting their enemies.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:12 pm

Sun Wukong wrote:
Christainville wrote:Its just, even atheists, have a faith. they have a faith there is no god

It would be nice if conservatives could go even a paragraph without lying about and insulting their enemies.

Well, the whole OP is basically one big strawman of "liberals", which is funny because this is supposed to be about Conservatives.
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Godular
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Postby Godular » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:13 pm

Sun Wukong wrote:
Christainville wrote:Its just, even atheists, have a faith. they have a faith there is no god

It would be nice if conservatives could go even a paragraph without lying about and insulting their enemies.


Or demonstrating such fundamental ignorance. Bloody annoying, that is.
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:14 pm

Conservatives aren't necessarily Christian, I don't see the wisdom in trying to drive out non-Christians from the ideology. American conservatives need to do some learning from British and Canadian conservatives.
Last edited by Geilinor on Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Greater Nevadian Empire
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Postby Greater Nevadian Empire » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:16 pm

Geilinor wrote:Conservatives aren't necessarily Christian, I don't see the wisdom in trying to drive out non-Christians from the ideology. American conservatives need to do some learning from British and Canadian conservatives.

Many conservatives are other religions, and their are atheist conservatives. There are also liberal/centre Christians, like me.
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Sun Wukong
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Postby Sun Wukong » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:22 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Sun Wukong wrote:It would be nice if conservatives could go even a paragraph without lying about and insulting their enemies.

Well, the whole OP is basically one big strawman of "liberals", which is funny because this is supposed to be about Conservatives.

To be fair, quite a lot of it is rambling nonsense too. Not all of it is strawman.

My favorite one has got to be the third point though. All this rallying against the ever-changing morals of man, as though they've all completely failed to notice that religious morality changes with the times too.
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Godular
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Postby Godular » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:24 pm

Sun Wukong wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Well, the whole OP is basically one big strawman of "liberals", which is funny because this is supposed to be about Conservatives.

To be fair, quite a lot of it is rambling nonsense too. Not all of it is strawman.

My favorite one has got to be the third point though. All this rallying against the ever-changing morals of man, as though they've all completely failed to notice that religious morality changes with the times too.


I tend to point to that as evidence that morality is not defined by religion.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:25 pm

Sun Wukong wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Well, the whole OP is basically one big strawman of "liberals", which is funny because this is supposed to be about Conservatives.

To be fair, quite a lot of it is rambling nonsense too. Not all of it is strawman.

My favorite one has got to be the third point though. All this rallying against the ever-changing morals of man, as though they've all completely failed to notice that religious morality changes with the times too.

I'll be completely honest and say I only skimmed the OP. It seemed bloggy, so I didn't commit my full attention to it.

I find it amusing how the OP has basically ignored non-Christian Conservatives. We need to summon Big Jim, I'm sure he'd be amused by that.
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Crezilivion
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Postby Crezilivion » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:57 pm

[Reply to Christianville.]

1st. I support separation of the church and state.

2nd. I am not Christian and I am most certainly not scared of Islam. In fact, I admire their devotion and certain aspects of their conservatism.

3rd. I hate it when someone wants a civil "right" or is against one because it "feels" right or wrong. Really? People are going to decide important decisions the same way they decide what they're having for breakfast in the morning? It really appalls me when anyone does this. I generally respect the religious conservatives because they do not generally make important decisions based on mere feelings or whims. Only bad thing is they tend to be cautious of things that could benefit the economy, like weed.
Last edited by Crezilivion on Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Vilatania
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Postby Vilatania » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:29 pm

I stopped reading this dribble when you said that Atheists have faith. We don't have faith. Get over it.
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Knockturn Alley
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Postby Knockturn Alley » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:29 pm

I stopped reading indignantly at:

Christainville wrote:Now, even as a conservative, I don't want faith being the whole base of politics. Faith should be a choice, not forced. Its just, even atheists, have a faith. they have a faith there is no god, as we have a faith God leads us through out life.


Excuse me? Lack of faith is not a faith, its called being normal, we have not seen evidence of a superior being, so we do not acknowledge one in the same way you do not believe in a giant bogeyman hiding under your bed, because you have no reason to do so.
Last edited by Knockturn Alley on Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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United Russian Soviet States
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Postby United Russian Soviet States » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:32 pm

Christianity should play a big role in politics. It provides a moral foundation.
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:39 pm

I am seriously considering addressing every single claim and argument made by the OP, but since that may take a while, I'll only give a brief opinion for now:

Should Christianity, and conservative Christianity in particular, play a role in the politics of today's world? My answer is that it already is, and will inevitably continue to do so for the forseable future, no matter what those of us who advocate for secularism do. There will always be religious groups who will want to base policy on their doctrine, and they have the liberty to advocate for that, with certain restrictions.

United Russian Soviet States wrote:Christianity should play a big role in politics. It provides a moral foundation.

So do Islam, Judaism, secular humanism, many variants of Satanism, Wicca, etc.

Christianity is not the only faith with a moral code, and there's tons of non-religious philosophies that seek to provide a moral foundation for our civilisation that does not entail imposing the moral code of a particular religious group over everybody else.
Last edited by Liriena on Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:39 pm

United Russian Soviet States wrote:Christianity should play a big role in politics. It provides a moral foundation.

I'm not sure slavery and murdering non-believers is a "moral foundation".
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New Werpland
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Postby New Werpland » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:41 pm

Christianity should play a role in politics. God is a basis for quite a few people's values, subtracting religion or any cultural beliefs from government in an attempt to create a neutral state, is not wrong, but impossible.

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United Russian Soviet States
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Postby United Russian Soviet States » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:42 pm

Scomagia wrote:
United Russian Soviet States wrote:Christianity should play a big role in politics. It provides a moral foundation.

I'm not sure slavery and murdering non-believers is a "moral foundation".

You are referring to sinful actions done by Christians.
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New Werpland
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Postby New Werpland » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:43 pm

Scomagia wrote:
United Russian Soviet States wrote:Christianity should play a big role in politics. It provides a moral foundation.

I'm not sure slavery and murdering non-believers is a "moral foundation".

Oh and here we go with the standard "religion makes people do horrible things, lets ban it" mentality.

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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:43 pm

New Werpland wrote:
Scomagia wrote:I'm not sure slavery and murdering non-believers is a "moral foundation".

Oh and here we go with the standard "religion makes people do horrible things, lets ban it" mentality.

I didn't say that.

Beautiful strawman, though.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:43 pm

United Russian Soviet States wrote:
Scomagia wrote:I'm not sure slavery and murdering non-believers is a "moral foundation".

You are referring to sinful actions done by Christians.

Actions condoned by the bible, actually.
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United Russian Soviet States
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Postby United Russian Soviet States » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:46 pm

Scomagia wrote:
United Russian Soviet States wrote:You are referring to sinful actions done by Christians.

Actions condoned by the bible, actually.

You are referring to the Old Testament.
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The balkens
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Postby The balkens » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:46 pm

United Russian Soviet States wrote:Christianity should play a big role in politics. It provides a moral foundation.


NO.

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