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US Diplomat says "EU countrie need to spend more on Defence"

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:30 pm
by Memell
A senior US diplomat has warned of a "dangerous" gulf emerging between US and European defence spending.

Samantha Power, the US ambassador to the United Nations, has appealed to European governments to spend more.

She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that cuts to defence budgets in Europe were "concerning".

Prime Minister David Cameron said the UK already met the Nato defence spending target and was also "due to meet it in the coming years".

Ms Power said that in "most cases" defence spending in Europe was shrinking, despite a growth in defence threats.

The ambassador said she had flown to Brussels to encourage the leaders of Nato countries to meet the defence spending target of 2% of GDP.

'Awful lot of threats'
She warned: "The number of missions that require advanced militaries to contribute around the world is growing not shrinking."

The UK government has committed to the 2% spending target until the end of this Parliament, but there has been no commitment beyond that from either the Conservatives or Labour.

Britain is one of the few countries to meet the target, Ms Power said.

She added: "The United Kingdom is exceptional - has been a staunch Nato ally and has stepped up - whether on Isil (Islamic State) or on Ebola or in Afghanistan".

But the ambassador warned: "We're looking at an awful lot of threats and many of those threats are migrating into Europe, at least in the form of Isil, and yet we haven't seen European defence spending reach the 2% of GDP level that European leaders committed to."

UK cuts 'inevitable'
On Monday the Royal United Services Institute (Rusi) said it was inevitable that the UK's defence spending would drop below the 2% target.

The defence think tank warned that up to 30,000 more military personnel could lose their jobs by 2020, whatever the outcome of the general election.

The warning followed concerns from the head of the US Army over the impact of spending cuts on the UK's armed forces.

Chief of Staff General Raymond Odierno voiced his reservations about the falling proportion of the UK's national wealth being spent on the military.

Despite these concerns, Ms Power told the Today programme: "This is not about one country, but it is about a larger, collective challenge that we are now facing."

She said a small investment into UN peacekeeping could make a "tremendous difference".

The ambassador appealed to governments for aid in the form of military sophistication, niche capabilities, attack helicopters and intelligence.

"Those kind of capabilities could strengthen the missions as a whole and thereby diminish the threat that all of us face," she added.

Increased equipment budget
The prime minister has come under increasing pressure from Conservative MPs to commit the government to meeting Nato's target, and a backbench bill on Thursday will attempt to enshrine this target in law.

He denied the UK was "shrinking its role in the world", telling LBC radio: "What we have done with the defence budget is we froze it in cash terms at around £36bn - that's the fifth biggest defence budget in the world and the second biggest in Nato.

"We have made very specific pledges to increase in real terms the equipment budget, which is absolutely vital - that's the aircraft carriers and the Type 26 frigates and the destroyers and hunter-killer submarines and the rest."


Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31813490

Personally, i think that what the EU/and its member states) does or does not is none of the US' business, especially regarding Defence.

As a European citizen, i am already discontent with the onerous military missions that some States have undertaken (mainly because of the declining but still noticeable American influence on them), e.g. Italy, France and the UK; i certainly would be enraged, were some EU countries to increase their military spending for military deployement in foreign countries rather than internal security (which i believe should be the primary, if not only concern).

It is also questionable how much it would be sensible to listen to Ms. Power's advice, as her strong stance regarding Gaddafi's Lybia in 2011 has led to the disastrous situation we all know (i.e. a proto-ISIS emerging and a completely out of control flow of immigrants).

(source for this: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... -s-un-pick )

What is your take, NS?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:35 pm
by Scomagia
Samantha Power can choke on a dick. The fact that European nations aren't spending huge percentages on defense isn't a bad thing.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:35 pm
by Conserative Morality
Right, well, if you few EU members who aren't in NATO want to roll over and surrender to Russian influence for the foreseeable future, go ahead. Ukraine's situation of economic coercion and political meddling for years previous to our little crisis now was just absolutely wonderful.

Or you could, you know, present a strong united front against the aggression of other countries.

Just a thought.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:35 pm
by Camelza
If Americans think a dangerous gulf is emerging between US and European defence spending, then the US should spent more for its people and less for weapons. Problem solved.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:37 pm
by Conserative Morality
Scomagia wrote:Samantha Power can choke on a dick. The fact that European nations aren't spending huge percentages on defense isn't a bad thing.

2% of GDP is NATO's target for defence spending. Piss or get off the pot - only a few European members of NATO pull their weight.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:41 pm
by Memell
Conserative Morality wrote:Right, well, if you few EU members who aren't in NATO want to roll over and surrender to Russian influence for the foreseeable future, go ahead. Ukraine's situation of economic coercion and political meddling for years previous to our little crisis now was just absolutely wonderful.

Or you could, you know, present a strong united front against the aggression of other countries.

Just a thought.


Yes, the dear old "Soviet Hordes are at the gates.....buy our stuff!!" mantra.....Whatever, we know that already.

And, you know, the US need the EU more than the EU needs the US.

But wait, i'd gladly accept the EU leaving NATO and forming their own defence network.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:42 pm
by Russels Orbiting Teapot
Camelza wrote:If Americans think a dangerous gulf is emerging between US and European defence spending, then the US should spent more for its people and less for weapons. Problem solved.


We'd love to, but half of Europe is depending on us spending 21% of our GDP so they don't have to even spend 2%.

Really, it would be awesome to be able to scale down defense spending and focus on America's infrastructure, which is mostly decades old at this point.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:44 pm
by Genivaria
Scomagia wrote:Samantha Power can choke on a dick. The fact that European nations aren't spending huge percentages on defense isn't a bad thing.

2% is huge now?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:46 pm
by Camelza
Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:
Camelza wrote:If Americans think a dangerous gulf is emerging between US and European defence spending, then the US should spent more for its people and less for weapons. Problem solved.


We'd love to, but half of Europe is depending on us spending 21% of our GDP so they don't have to even spend 2%.

Really, it would be awesome to be able to scale down defense spending and focus on America's infrastructure, which is mostly decades old at this point.

4.4% of your GDP actually. I don't get why my country pays 2,7%-3% of its GDP for military spending, especially when we have far more important cases to deal with, like battling poverty. So, I don't like it when a US diplomat says we have to pay more to buy their jets and shiny boomsticks.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:47 pm
by Genivaria
Memell wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Right, well, if you few EU members who aren't in NATO want to roll over and surrender to Russian influence for the foreseeable future, go ahead. Ukraine's situation of economic coercion and political meddling for years previous to our little crisis now was just absolutely wonderful.

Or you could, you know, present a strong united front against the aggression of other countries.

Just a thought.


Yes, the dear old "Soviet Hordes are at the gates.....buy our stuff!!" mantra.....Whatever, we know that already.

And, you know, the US need the EU more than the EU needs the US.

But wait, i'd gladly accept the EU leaving NATO and forming their own defence network.

Oh that's adorable you think you're a threat without us as you are.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:48 pm
by Kainesia
Well unfortunately for her, the military industrial complex hasn't bought out Europe's politicians yet.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:48 pm
by Slakonian
Yes yes I know where this is going. When US ask from Eu to spend more on defense, they actually mean we should buy guns from them because they ahve good guns(sarcasm). Those damn M113's were supposed to be new not used....

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:52 pm
by Conserative Morality
Memell wrote:Yes, the dear old "Soviet Hordes are at the gates.....buy our stuff!!" mantra.....Whatever, we know that already.

And, you know, the US need the EU more than the EU needs the US.

Ha.

If you think for the briefest of moments that this is a 'We do more! Nuh-uh!' dick-waving contest, you've not only missed the point, but have proven yourself woefully underinformed about the state of international politics.

The EU needs the US, and the US needs the EU. Remove either and the results would be catastrophic.
But wait, i'd gladly accept the EU leaving NATO and forming their own defence network.

Good luck with that, what with your apparent reluctance to spend previously set targets on defense. Of course, if you all actually met those targets, all you'd really be doing is excluding the US from your 'old world only' defense club, which is pretty fucking stupid.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:52 pm
by Memell
Genivaria wrote:
Memell wrote:
Yes, the dear old "Soviet Hordes are at the gates.....buy our stuff!!" mantra.....Whatever, we know that already.

And, you know, the US need the EU more than the EU needs the US.

But wait, i'd gladly accept the EU leaving NATO and forming their own defence network.

Oh that's adorable you think you're a threat without us as you are.


Because all countries fit in only one of two categories: Threats and miserable puppets to be stomped on, right?
Oh boy, that cowboy mentality kicking in....

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:53 pm
by Conserative Morality
Genivaria wrote:Oh that's adorable you think you're a threat without us as you are.

I suppose if they want to be run by France and the UK? Maybe Germany'll have a voice? But again, that's just excluding the US because AMERICANZ. That changes... nothing.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:53 pm
by Genivaria
Slakonian wrote:Yes yes I know where this is going. When US ask from Eu to spend more on defense, they actually mean we should buy guns from them because they ahve good guns(sarcasm). Those damn M113's were supposed to be new not used....

Kainesia wrote:Well unfortunately for her, the military industrial complex hasn't bought out Europe's politicians yet.

So tell me what it's like to hate the only shield you have?
Seriously I thought two World Wars would've made Europe vigilant, instead many Europeans have become complacent.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:54 pm
by Conserative Morality
Memell wrote:Because all countries fit in only one of two categories: Threats and miserable puppets to be stomped on, right?

Yeah. Actually, yeah. That's been the whole of human history. That's why we have NATO - collectively, we can be a cheaper and yet more dangerous threat than we are apart.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:55 pm
by Mefpan
Genivaria wrote:
Slakonian wrote:Yes yes I know where this is going. When US ask from Eu to spend more on defense, they actually mean we should buy guns from them because they ahve good guns(sarcasm). Those damn M113's were supposed to be new not used....

Kainesia wrote:Well unfortunately for her, the military industrial complex hasn't bought out Europe's politicians yet.

So tell me what it's like to hate the only shield you have?
Seriously I thought two World Wars would've made Europe vigilant, instead many Europeans have become complacent.

Is "complacent" the new word for "tired of wars"?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:56 pm
by Memell
Conserative Morality wrote:
Memell wrote:Yes, the dear old "Soviet Hordes are at the gates.....buy our stuff!!" mantra.....Whatever, we know that already.

And, you know, the US need the EU more than the EU needs the US.

Ha.

If you think for the briefest of moments that this is a 'We do more! Nuh-uh!' dick-waving contest, you've not only missed the point, but have proven yourself woefully underinformed about the state of international politics.

The EU needs the US, and the US needs the EU. Remove either and the results would be catastrophic.
But wait, i'd gladly accept the EU leaving NATO and forming their own defence network.

Good luck with that, what with your apparent reluctance to spend previously set targets on defense. Of course, if you all actually met those targets, all you'd really be doing is excluding the US from your 'old world only' defense club, which is pretty fucking stupid.


And why is that that you want us to sign that garbage called TTIP? Maybe because our industries are way more interested in trading with Russia and China rather than with your huge companies (which are who tells the US government what to do, really)?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:57 pm
by Camelza
Memell wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Oh that's adorable you think you're a threat without us as you are.


Because all countries fit in only one of two categories: Threats and miserable puppets to be stomped on, right?

Erm... that's actually how things work in the world
Oh boy, that cowboy mentality kicking in....

Americans were never cowboys in their majority.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:57 pm
by Memell
Conserative Morality wrote:
Memell wrote:Because all countries fit in only one of two categories: Threats and miserable puppets to be stomped on, right?

Yeah. Actually, yeah. That's been the whole of human history. That's why we have NATO - collectively, we can be a cheaper and yet more dangerous threat than we are apart.


Except right now we have to follow your stupid "police of the world" adventures around the globe....

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:58 pm
by Russels Orbiting Teapot
Camelza wrote:4.4% of your GDP actually. I don't get why my country pays 2,7%-3% of its GDP for military spending, especially when we have far more important cases to deal with, like battling poverty. So, I don't like it when a US diplomat says we have to pay more to buy their jets and shiny boomsticks.


Whoops, I was looking at the total of our defense budget. My apologies.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:59 pm
by Camelza
Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:
Camelza wrote:4.4% of your GDP actually. I don't get why my country pays 2,7%-3% of its GDP for military spending, especially when we have far more important cases to deal with, like battling poverty. So, I don't like it when a US diplomat says we have to pay more to buy their jets and shiny boomsticks.

Whoops, I was looking at the total of our defense budget. My apologies.

No problem, my point remains.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:59 pm
by Conserative Morality
Memell wrote:And why is that that you want us to sign that garbage called TTIP?

Right, because streamlining international trade is garbage.
Maybe because our industries are way more interested in trading with Russia and China rather than with your huge companies (which are who tells the US government what to do, really)?

lol

You keep believing that.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:59 pm
by Genivaria
Memell wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Oh that's adorable you think you're a threat without us as you are.


Because all countries fit in only one of two categories: Threats and miserable puppets to be stomped on, right?
Oh boy, that cowboy mentality kicking in....

H
Oh wow so you're too lazy too make your own defense, and yet too greedy to provide a mere 2% for America to protect you and then want to whine when you're asked to pay your share.
Where does this shit come from?