I'm pro amnesty on the U.S. Mexican border. What get's me is the fact that ones say 'they don't deserve to be here' (quote from Bill O'reilley), while the Statue of Liberty inscription reads : Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:23 pm
by Cyrisnia
Sheltton wrote:I'm pro amnesty on the U.S. Mexican border. What get's me is the fact that ones say 'they don't deserve to be here' (quote from Bill O'reilley), while the Statue of Liberty inscription reads : Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
I'm anti-small OPs.
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:24 pm
by Second Blazing
Sheltton wrote:I'm pro amnesty on the U.S. Mexican border. What get's me is the fact that ones say 'they don't deserve to be here' (quote from Bill O'reilley), while the Statue of Liberty inscription reads : Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
That was a 100 years ago when we needed enough people out west to drive out the Indians. Times have changed, we're getting overcrowded as it is.
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:28 pm
by United Russian Soviet States
I am pro-amnesty.
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:29 pm
by Aelex
Sheltton wrote:I'm pro amnesty on the U.S. Mexican border. What get's me is the fact that ones say 'they don't deserve to be here' (quote from Bill O'reilley), while the Statue of Liberty inscription reads : Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
Yep, I like how the only monument of significant importance you have has been made by France... Still, I don't see why you shouldn't let immigrant come. After all, it was their land before...
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:31 pm
by Ashmoria
I don't like calling it amnesty but I am in favor of giving people who have lived here for a long time a path to legalization and eventual citizenship. I don't want there to be millions of people living here permanently without that possibility.
Sheltton wrote:I'm pro amnesty on the U.S. Mexican border. What get's me is the fact that ones say 'they don't deserve to be here' (quote from Bill O'reilley), while the Statue of Liberty inscription reads : Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
Yep, I like how the only monument of significant importance you have has been made by France... Still, I don't see why you shouldn't let immigrant come. After all, it was their land before...
It was the immigrant's land? I'm quite certain an immigrant from...um, Tajikistan, would have no link whatsoever the indigenous peoples of the Americas.
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:33 pm
by Sebastianbourg
I don't think the post is good enough; I'm not in favour of a non-existent immigration policy nor am I totally opposed to immigration. I quite like New Zealand's point system.
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:36 pm
by Boineburg
Anti-Amnesty if I understand the definition correctly. Can't get the immigration papers? Stay out.
Sebastianbourg wrote: It was the immigrant's land? I'm quite certain an immigrant from...um, Tajikistan, would have no link whatsoever the indigenous peoples of the Americas.
We're discussing the US-Mexican border. The Southwestern US was formerly part of Mexico until we conquered it.
Sheltton wrote:I'm pro amnesty on the U.S. Mexican border. What get's me is the fact that ones say 'they don't deserve to be here' (quote from Bill O'reilley), while the Statue of Liberty inscription reads : Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
Yep, I like how the only monument of significant importance you have has been made by France... Still, I don't see why you shouldn't let immigrant come. After all, it was their land before...
It was their land a few decades shy of 2 centuries ago. So that fact is kind of irrelevant now; it's America now. I have nothing against immigrants, but they should actually become citizens if they want to live in the country.
And also, what's your definition of 'significant importance' for monuments? Because there's plenty of monuments in the US.
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:53 pm
by Conserative Morality
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
If immigration to the US was more open, I'd be more anti-amnesty, but between our sheer boneheadedness regarding migrant workers and our reduced rate of allowed immigration, I'm inclined to believe that mass amnesty is the only practical choice. Plenty of supply and plenty of demand makes sales, whether you want 'em or not, savvy?
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:58 pm
by Aelex
Cetatsenia wrote:It was their land a few decades shy of 2 centuries ago. So that fact is kind of irrelevant now; it's America now. I have nothing against immigrants, but they should actually become citizens if they want to live in the country.
And also, what's your definition of 'significant importance' for monuments? Because there's plenty of monuments in the US.
Not really. Still, apart from the Statue de la Liberté and the Rushmore, can you give me another Great American Monument?
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:59 pm
by Conserative Morality
Aelex wrote:Not really. Still, apart from the Statue de la Liberté and the Rushmore, can you give me another Great American Monument?
Washington Monument.
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:00 pm
by The United Territories of Providence
This was a bad OP.
I'm pro-fixing our current immigration system, b/c currently it's more of a 5-year lottery than immigration system. Amnesty isn't the answer, >11,000,000 new citizens? That's just not practical. Also, okay the statue of liberty says we welcome all immigrants....our money says "In god we trust"....So? Just because our money has "God" doesn't mean we aren't a secular nation, and just because a 100 year old monument promotes an open door policy doesn't mean we should.
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:05 pm
by Conserative Morality
The United Territories of Providence wrote:This was a bad OP.
I'm pro-fixing our current immigration system, b/c currently it's more of a 5-year lottery than immigration system. Amnesty isn't the answer, >11,000,000 new citizens? That's just not practical.
Yes, 11,000,000 non-citizens are much less of a drain. So long as they can't vote in Federal elections, they won't overwhelm the system. Whew! That was a close one! People were almost represented in this country!
Also, okay the statue of liberty says we welcome all immigrants....our money says "In god we trust"....So? Just because our money has "God" doesn't mean we aren't a secular nation, and just because a 100 year old monument promotes an open door policy doesn't mean we should.
George Washington wrote:The bosom of America is open to receive not only the Opulent and respectable Stranger, but the oppressed and persecuted of all Nations and Religions; whom we shall welcome to a participation of all our rights and privileges, if by decency and propriety of conduct they appear to merit the enjoyment
The poem reflects the ideals of the country, not vice versa.
Cetatsenia wrote:It was their land a few decades shy of 2 centuries ago. So that fact is kind of irrelevant now; it's America now. I have nothing against immigrants, but they should actually become citizens if they want to live in the country.
And also, what's your definition of 'significant importance' for monuments? Because there's plenty of monuments in the US.
Not really. Still, apart from the Statue de la Liberté and the Rushmore, can you give me another Great American Monument?
The Washington Monument The Lincoln Memorial The White House The Gateway Arch Plymouth Rock Independence Park The Marine Corps War Memorial
We forgive your limited knowledge of our country, but when you try to interject in our domestic policy....some understanding of our culture our laws might be useful.
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:16 pm
by Valkalan
Historically, openness to immigrants has attracted many of the world's greatest minds such as Nikola Tesla, Andrew Carnegie, John von Neumann and Albert Einstein. Unskilled immigrants are usually willing to work, even if it means accepting low wage jobs that few of the natives would want. It would be folly to turn these folks away. I would only caution that special privileges such as in-state tuition for immigrant youth be removed. Furthermore, the nation's constitution must be amended such that any radical shift in the nation's demographics cannot be leveraged to alter the legal structure of the nation. For instance, if my nation's original inhabitants became a minority in their own nation on account of immigration from the Middle East I wouldn't the new majority to vote to make my nation an Islamic state.
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:19 pm
by Diopolis
I support amnesty assuming that those applying for it 1) have a clean criminal record and 2) agree to pay backtaxes.
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:21 pm
by Atlanticatia
I think that it makes sense to provide amnesty to undocumented immigrants who are here. How are we going to deport millions and millions of people? Most undocumented immigrants have established social, cultural, and economic roots in the USA. We may as well ensure that we know who is living here, ensure people are being fairly treated at work, etc. Many undocumented immigrants are paid under the table and don't get minimum wage, for example -- that drives down wages. Giving them the legal right to work would mean all American workers, immigrant or not, are on a level playing field.
In the future I'd like to see a Canadian/Australian-style points based immigration system, combined with a controlled amount of unskilled immigration. We could put a quota on, say, 2-year temporary work visas, which people who would have entered the country illegally could access to. As long as they have no criminal history, a degree of English proficiency(or a plan to learn the basics), and a plan to look for work, they could have a 2-year visa to work. If, after 2 years, they're making strong economic contributions to the country, are employed, etc, they could eventually be extended to permanent residency. Then we could have control over the amount of people who come to this country and fix the border issue
We should probably let in, say, 3 million migrants each year - comprised of skilled migrants, unskilled migrants, family reunification, and refugees. I'd say that about 12% of that could be reserved for unskilled migrants. That's about 360,000 unskilled migrants each year. Currently about 700,000 undocumented immigrants enter each year. A temporary work visa program could cut that number in half, while ensuring they can come to America safely, have a path to permanent residency/citizenship, and ensure that they are able to legally work for proper wages and conditions, interact with government agencies, not fear deportation, etc. People would probably stop entering illegally through the border, as they could just wait until the next year to get a visa if the quota has been filled.
Ultimately we should have a goal of: a) Establishing a points-based system to admit many more skilled migrants - I propose a huge increase. b) Providing amnesty to current undocumented immigrants who are making a social/economic contribution in the US. c) Stemming the flow of illegal immigration by providing a temporary work visa program to unskilled workers, with an annual quota. d) Aiming to have the majority of immigrants be skilled workers.
America has a comparatively low amount of people born abroad - only about 13% are. By comparison, Australia has 26% born abroad.
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:27 pm
by Aelex
The United Territories of Providence wrote: The Washington Monument The Lincoln Memorial The White House The Gateway Arch Plymouth Rock Independence Park The Marine Corps War Memorial
We forgive your limited knowledge of our country, but when you try to interject in our domestic policy....some understanding of our culture our laws might be useful.
Culture...
Still, you should just soften your laws a little and let more people come, thus, by controlling it, you'll stem the flow of migrant more effectively than by just saying "don't come in my country"...
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:35 pm
by Myrensis
Hey, it if was good enough for Reagan it's good enough for me.
Sheltton wrote:I'm pro amnesty on the U.S. Mexican border. What get's me is the fact that ones say 'they don't deserve to be here' (quote from Bill O'reilley), while the Statue of Liberty inscription reads : Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
That was a 100 years ago when we needed enough people out west to drive out the Indians. Times have changed, we're getting overcrowded as it is.
Yeah, drive out the original people so the illegal immigrants can settle the land.
Sheltton wrote:I'm pro amnesty on the U.S. Mexican border. What get's me is the fact that ones say 'they don't deserve to be here' (quote from Bill O'reilley), while the Statue of Liberty inscription reads : Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
That was a 100 years ago when we needed enough people out west to drive out the Indians. Times have changed, we're getting overcrowded as it is.
There's 84 people per square mile. How the fuck is that too crowded? What would be an acceptable level of crowding for you? 20 per square mile? 1 per square mile?
The United Territories of Providence wrote: The Washington Monument The Lincoln Memorial The White House The Gateway Arch Plymouth Rock Independence Park The Marine Corps War Memorial
We forgive your limited knowledge of our country, but when you try to interject in our domestic policy....some understanding of our culture our laws might be useful.
Culture...
Still, you should just soften your laws a little and let more people come, thus, by controlling it, you'll stem the flow of migrant more effectively than by just saying "don't come in my country"...
The problem isn't the laws are too hard, the problem is the laws aren't rational. I don't know if you're familiar with our actual immigration policy, so I'll quote a conversation I had with another nation while trying to explain it.
Other Nation: "I'm not getting something here though, why are there so many illegal immigrants? Why must they hop the border, don't they have a passport?"
Me: "I didn't expect you to be familiar with our "glorious" immigration system. It costs over $20,000 and can take upwards of 10 years to become a naturalized US citizen. First we have a limit on how many immigrants each country is allowed to send. So that's why in 2013 12.5 million applied for citizenship, and only 55,000 got in. And by got in I just mean we accepted their applications, not approved them. Then if we approve their application, they must travel to America until they're citizenship interview. At that point they are given a $100 booklet with over 150 questions (not answers) regarding American history and government. At the interview they must answer 10 questions that have been selected at random, and they need 100% accuracy. Then they must prove fluency in English. Finally, if the US doesn't decide to reject them (b/c they can do that for whatever reason, and they often do) they can wait months or years before they're sworn in as a citizen. A foreign passport means nothing here, if you are not a citizen you have a limited amount of time you're "welcome." By hoping the border they don't spend 10+ years in limbo, when they aren't even guaranteed citizenship. The fence is a sure thing, application is more of a lottery."
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:09 pm
