IQ Based Immigration

[Infected Mushroom]

The US already has a biased system In place lets not make it even worse for these people.

how do they currently decide?

[Vashtanaraada]

No, because in my country we have had to recruit foreign employees for industries like construction and shopkeeping. You don't need to have a massive IQ to do those jobs, you just need to have enough qualifications to be able to get a job in any country you end up living.

Either way, you should just have immigration openly. They actually pay back more than they claim and get from the state (at least in the UK, my home country). http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c49043a8-6447 ... z3SsE7oMig

[Purpelia]

Of course, cutting off immigration isn't a very good of an idea. We will see increased chances of inbreeding, and decrease genetic diversity, which isn't a very good thing to ensure the survival and health wellbeing of any country

This is not something you really need to worry about. Any modern nation with its many millions of people can go through thousands upon thousands of generations before genetic diversity becomes an issue. You just need to make sure that there is enough internal mobility within the society it self.

So NSG, should we have an IQ-based immigration system?

Frankly I think it's a bad idea. Just because someone is smart does not mean he is going to be useful to your society. Nor does it mean that he is going to be good for your little eugenics project. Bottom line with humans is that stupid or smart an immigrant might not have skills needed to be useful. Or worse he might have those skills and displace one of your existing citizens. A much better approach would be to look at the economic standpoint and only allow in those with the relevant education needed to fill up those jobs that you can not fill using domestic sources. That way you do not displace existing workers and yet fill up the needs of your economy.

[Draakonite]

No, because in my country we have had to recruit foreign employees for industries like construction and shopkeeping. You don't need to have a massive IQ to do those jobs, you just need to have enough qualifications to be able to get a job in any country you end up living.

Either way, you should just have immigration openly. They actually pay back more than they claim and get from the state (at least in the UK, my home country). http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c49043a8-6447 ... z3SsE7oMig

Open borders?
You can abolish welfare also directly, you know.

Edit: paywall source ^^

[Agritum]

The US already has a biased system In place lets not make it even worse for these people.

how do they currently decide?

http://reason.org/files/a87d1550853898a ... 116079.pdf

[Hladgos]

You haven't done enough research to make an assumption yet dawg. Also, no sources at all?

[Neutraligon]

IQ tests are biased so no they would be a terrible way to do things.

[Infected Mushroom]

how do they currently decide?

http://reason.org/files/a87d1550853898a ... 116079.pdf

by comparison I think just using IQ is a lot more objective and clear (while in many ways being more reasonable)

[L Ron Cupboard]

A dance contest would be a better method.

[Agritum]

http://reason.org/files/a87d1550853898a ... 116079.pdf

by comparison I think just using IQ is a lot more objective and clear (while in many ways being more reasonable)

You can't objectively say that an high IQ person could be potentially useful for your aerospace engineering firm if they lack such a degree, for example.

[Vazdaria]

Immigration, to many is a two edged sword. It can be a good thing, and a bad thing. You can have the best, and the worst of the world immigrating, at least that is the current immigration system in many nations.

Of course, cutting off immigration isn't a very good of an idea. We will see increased chances of inbreeding, and decrease genetic diversity, which isn't a very good thing to ensure the survival and health wellbeing of any country, but too much immigration can be quite detrimental to many nations, as if the immigrants are all welfare users, and consume more than they give, then they are a strain on society.

Of course, we want the best, not the worst of the world in a nation, so why don't we set an immigration quota that is based off IQ? Some think it is genetic, and in this case, we will have smarter people in the future, but others think that it is based off the education and experiences of the person, but if that person has a high IQ under this circumstance, then they would be highly educated and would therefore be beneficial to the workforce and (very likely) have highly educated children, which is beneficial to a nation.

So NSG, should we have an IQ-based immigration system?

That idea is bonkers.

[Wanderjar]

Of course, we want the best, not the worst of the world in a nation, so why don't we set an immigration quota that is based off IQ?

Because a high IQ doesn't imply anything except a talent for IQ tests, and a talent for IQ tests is not, in and of itself, beneficial in any field of human endeavour.

This. I disagree with an IQ based immigration system. I believe in the point system as employed by Australia and (correct me if I'm wrong please) Canada. Open immigration is untenable in a post-industrial society like, say, the US. Unless we re-industrialize to such a degree that the labor force is necessary, then it's just disastrous. But skilled individuals who want to immigrate to the US regardless of country of origin should not have to jump through hoops of fire to get here either. Doctors, engineers, etc, are all skills the US needs.

[Kincoboh]

How about immigration based on being a decent human being? i.e. "No Assholes Allowed"

[Scomagia]

IQ is bullshit anyway. It's a racist and classist test that means little.

[Vazdaria]

IQ is bullshit anyway. It's a racist and classist test that means little.

YAY FOR CLASSISM!

[Tahar Joblis]

Of course, we want the best, not the worst of the world in a nation, so why don't we set an immigration quota that is based off IQ?

Because a high IQ doesn't imply anything except a talent for IQ tests, and a talent for IQ tests is not, in and of itself, beneficial in any field of human endeavour.

A very standard party-line response for some parties, but not precisely empirically accurate. IQ, if known, is a very powerful predictor of many things other than IQ tests. It is only by controlling for almost every other available factor (education, high school GPA, parents' education, parents' income, etc) that you can make it look like it's only predicting IQ tests; absent those measures, or with easily-gamed measures of those, the IQ test becomes a powerful predictive tool.

[Agritum]

Because a high IQ doesn't imply anything except a talent for IQ tests, and a talent for IQ tests is not, in and of itself, beneficial in any field of human endeavour.

This. I disagree with an IQ based immigration system. I believe in the point system as employed by Australia and (correct me if I'm wrong please) Canada. Open immigration is untenable in a post-industrial society like, say, the US. Unless we re-industrialize to such a degree that the labor force is necessary, then it's just disastrous. But skilled individuals who want to immigrate to the US regardless of country of origin should not have to jump through hoops of fire to get here either. Doctors, engineers, etc, are all skills the US needs.

I think that the U.S. system is pretty faulty when it comes to specialized immigration. I mean, 10 waiting years for someone with a Master's Degree in an advanced field? That's utter bullshit.

[Wanderjar]

IQ tests are biased so no they would be a terrible way to do things.

Agreed. Racists frequently state the fact that people from Africa have noticeably lower IQs than people from Europe, ignoring the obvious fact that educational opportunities for everyone are infinitely better in Europe, America, or parts of Asia. With the fact that most of those tests are basically geared around mathematical questions, It's absurd to use IQ as a determining factor. Besides, most IQ tests are predominately mathematically based, so that's basically saying 'well, if you're not good at math we don't want you.'

[Wanderjar]

This. I disagree with an IQ based immigration system. I believe in the point system as employed by Australia and (correct me if I'm wrong please) Canada. Open immigration is untenable in a post-industrial society like, say, the US. Unless we re-industrialize to such a degree that the labor force is necessary, then it's just disastrous. But skilled individuals who want to immigrate to the US regardless of country of origin should not have to jump through hoops of fire to get here either. Doctors, engineers, etc, are all skills the US needs.

I think that the U.S. system is pretty faulty when it comes to specialized immigration. I mean, 10 waiting years for someone with a Master's Degree in an advanced field? That's utter bullshit.

I agree. I don't think bussing in poor people from Latin America is a good policy, but I also don't think the legal option as it currently exists is the answer by any means either.

[Infected Mushroom]

IQ is bullshit anyway. It's a racist and classist test that means little.

really?

how so?

[Neutraligon]

IQ tests are biased so no they would be a terrible way to do things.

Agreed. Racists frequently state the fact that people from Africa have noticeably lower IQs than people from Europe, ignoring the obvious fact that educational opportunities for everyone are infinitely better in Europe, America, or parts of Asia. With the fact that most of those tests are basically geared around mathematical questions, It's absurd to use IQ as a determining factor. Besides, most IQ tests are predominately mathematically based, so that's basically saying 'well, if you're not good at math we don't want you.'

There is more to it then that. People from different cultures for instance group things differently then those within the US. Other such cultural differences could very easily affect the outcome.

[Chaunceys]

America is supposed to be a nation were everyone no matter who you are have an equal chance to make it. We shouldn't judge immigrants based on IQ that in my opinion would be some sort of discrimination.

Well, you still judge potential entries by family ties or educational degrees. Like it or not, that's a type of discrimination/selection.

Most likely anyone can get a degree, if I put hard worked hard enough I could get a masters degree or any other degree. Judging if someone gets into a country based off their IQ score is just a form of discrimination. There is a difference between being in a country and doing bad on an IQ test and not being able to even get into a country because of an IQ test

[Chaunceys]

IQ is bullshit anyway. It's a racist and classist test that means little.

really?

how so?

There are multiple factors that can cause someone to do bad on the IQ test, maybe they just had a bad day and did bad on the test. Many factors can change what you get.

[Agritum]

Agreed. Racists frequently state the fact that people from Africa have noticeably lower IQs than people from Europe, ignoring the obvious fact that educational opportunities for everyone are infinitely better in Europe, America, or parts of Asia. With the fact that most of those tests are basically geared around mathematical questions, It's absurd to use IQ as a determining factor. Besides, most IQ tests are predominately mathematically based, so that's basically saying 'well, if you're not good at math we don't want you.'

There is more to it then that. People from different cultures for instance group things differently then those within the US. Other such cultural differences could very easily affect the outcome.

On an interesting note, the average IQ of African immigrants to the US is higher than the one of African Americans, simply because the former tend to be highly educated. IIRC, Nigerian-Americans are one of the most educated groups in the US in general.

[Infected Mushroom]

really?

how so?

There are multiple factors that can cause someone to do bad on the IQ test, maybe they just had a bad day and did bad on the test. Many factors can change what you get.

well you can always take multiple tests in multiple sittings