IQ Based Immigration

[Sebastianbourg]

I am in favour of a points-based immigration policy but I don't think IQ test results should have any effect in the process; their validity is doubtful at best.

[Nazi Flower Power]

If you know a person's IQ, you can use it to predict their economic success. It's irrelevant whether it is the cause or not. It still tells you something.

If it's economic success you're looking for, why not cut out the middle man and openly seek out economically successful people?

I never said you shouldn't.

[Agritum]

If it's economic success you're looking for, why not cut out the middle man and openly seek out economically successful people?

I never said you shouldn't.

It already happens. It's also handled pretty awfully.

Just look at the requirements to get a Green Card as an Investor.

[American California]

If immigration should be "fair" to anybody, it should be to the native population. Immigrants have no "right" to live in other nations, unless the native population consents to their presence.

And yes, immigration enforcement will be costly, because it is a matter of national security, cultural cohesion, and economic growth. These aren't things you want to half-ass.

As for the immigrants that don't have enough money, so what?

So what? Most immigrants come to America for a better life, why should they be opt out of coming to the US just because of them not having money. Plenty of smart people don't have money.

Why should they be allowed to come to the US, period? Their intentions are irrelevant.

[Chaunceys]

So what? Most immigrants come to America for a better life, why should they be opt out of coming to the US just because of them not having money. Plenty of smart people don't have money.

Why should they be allowed to come to the US, period? Their intentions are irrelevant.

Why should immigrants be allowed to come to the US really?
Immigrants help many things with the US, the help the economy, culture and many other things

Exerts from this link:
http://www.venturearticles.com/why-shou ... he-us.html

". Because of immigrants and the innovations and skills they brought to this country, many billion dollar businesses and stocks were created, which helped employ many Americans and make other Americans very rich so they could go on to employ others. Companies like Google, Pfizer, Carnival Corporation, DuPont Paint, Ebay, Intel, Nvidia, Yahoo, Procter & Gamble, and U.S. Steel were all created by immigrants and all help to employ a combined total of millions and millions of Americans. In addition to this, these companies bring billions of dollars into the U.S. Economy."

" immigrants also bring diversity and different cultures to this country, which helps promote a better image of the U.S. to other countries and expands business and trade with them. If we were an isolationist country like North Korea, most of our citizens would be poor like them because they would be unable to trade and grow their businesses. We also wouldn't have all these good foods in our country if someone didn't originally bring them here.

[The Sotoan Union]

IQ is not an objective measure of intelligence. It sure as hell isn't an objective measure of potential.

[Norstal]

The US already has a biased system In place lets not make it even worse for these people.

As someone who has gone through the US immigration system, I'd say an IQ based immigration system is probably more fairer than the current "lottery" system.

And even an IQ based immigration system is a bad idea.

[Lost heros]

So what? Most immigrants come to America for a better life, why should they be opt out of coming to the US just because of them not having money. Plenty of smart people don't have money.

Why should they be allowed to come to the US, period? Their intentions are irrelevant.

Why should they be denied the same opportunities that you and I are granted if they are willing to work for them?

[Norstal]

Why should they be allowed to come to the US, period? Their intentions are irrelevant.

Why should immigrants be allowed to come to the US really?

Cause we're coming to steal your jobs! YOUR PRECIOUS JOBS! They're all MINE!

If the US had rejected me I'd go to Canada anyways. Your loss, really.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

So what? Most immigrants come to America for a better life, why should they be opt out of coming to the US just because of them not having money. Plenty of smart people don't have money.

It's as if you don't care about the needs of countless immigrants. Many are trying to escape poverty, violence, and atrocious social conditions? Why should we tell them that they can't seek a better life?

Furthermore, immigrants are the backbone of the economy. The economy would literally collapse without immigration.
Why should they be allowed to come to the US, period? Their intentions are irrelevant.

[Ripoll]

Absolutely not, this is disgusting. First of all iq is not an adequate thing to determine intelligence, second of all intelligence is not inherently linked to success or innovation, or entrepreneurship all of which make or break a nation. We have to take a chance on people, because it is only in those odd defying risk taking moments here we find our self as a nation, and where we prosper. When the Government encourages this by facilitating a streamlined immigration process we all prosper. When the Government discourages this by setting up artificial barriers that bar potential and spit in the face of creativity and go against every single strand of moral fabric holding this nation together we decline.

[Ripoll]

Same Bigotry was used to justify slavery and discrimination. we hated the Chinese, the Irish, this isn't new. Now it's irrational fear of the Mexicans, or anyone Hispanic. It's ridiculous and it has to stop.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

Same Bigotry was used to justify slavery and discrimination. we hated the Chinese, the Irish, this isn't new. Now it's irrational fear of the Mexicans, or anyone Hispanic. It's ridiculous and it has to stop.

Completely agreed. I'm hopeful that it will eventually stop, and that people will realize that Hispanic immigration does more good than bad. As someone who lives in Arizona and goes to school in a 70% Hispanic neighborhood, I can assure everyone that the Latino community has integrated and adapted into American culture exceptionally well. Furthermore, the hardships some have had to endure to get here are heart breaking.

[Genivaria]

If we're going to base citizenship on intelligence then I can think of several elected Republicans about to lose their citizenship.

Requiring members of an outside group to possess some positive trait to join the inside group is based on the unfounded assumption that all members of the inside group already possess said trait.
This condescending and ignorant view can be found as far back as the Romans.

[Greed and Death]

Immigration, to many is a two edged sword. It can be a good thing, and a bad thing. You can have the best, and the worst of the world immigrating, at least that is the current immigration system in many nations.

Of course, cutting off immigration isn't a very good of an idea. We will see increased chances of inbreeding, and decrease genetic diversity, which isn't a very good thing to ensure the survival and health wellbeing of any country, but too much immigration can be quite detrimental to many nations, as if the immigrants are all welfare users, and consume more than they give, then they are a strain on society.

Of course, we want the best, not the worst of the world in a nation, so why don't we set an immigration quota that is based off IQ? Some think it is genetic, and in this case, we will have smarter people in the future, but others think that it is based off the education and experiences of the person, but if that person has a high IQ under this circumstance, then they would be highly educated and would therefore be beneficial to the workforce and (very likely) have highly educated children, which is beneficial to a nation.

So NSG, should we have an IQ-based immigration system?

I would completely support this. But I strongly disagree on your implication that education increases IQ...it does not, it increases knowledge, comprehensive abilities and outlook on life, none of which have anything to do with Intelligence.

Education particularly math increases IQ test results.

Whether education makes one more intelligent or not is not relevant.

[SaintB]

IQ does not actually measure how smart, how wise, how useful, or how deserving of anything anybody is.

[American California]

Why should they be allowed to come to the US, period? Their intentions are irrelevant.

Why should immigrants be allowed to come to the US really?
Immigrants help many things with the US, the help the economy, culture and many other things

Exerts from this link:
http://www.venturearticles.com/why-shou ... he-us.html

". Because of immigrants and the innovations and skills they brought to this country, many billion dollar businesses and stocks were created, which helped employ many Americans and make other Americans very rich so they could go on to employ others. Companies like Google, Pfizer, Carnival Corporation, DuPont Paint, Ebay, Intel, Nvidia, Yahoo, Procter & Gamble, and U.S. Steel were all created by immigrants and all help to employ a combined total of millions and millions of Americans. In addition to this, these companies bring billions of dollars into the U.S. Economy."

The immigrants who did this were of a very different extraction, and as the OP alluded to, were high-IQ individuals.

" immigrants also bring diversity and different cultures to this country, which helps promote a better image of the U.S. to other countries and expands business and trade with them. If we were an isolationist country like North Korea, most of our citizens would be poor like them because they would be unable to trade and grow their businesses. We also wouldn't have all these good foods in our country if someone didn't originally bring them here.

Diversity is a source of conflict and division. It is not something we should bring to this country. Everywhere diversity exists, it sucks, whether it be in Ferguson, the Balkans, Palestine, or Darfur.

And no, having strict immigration is not isolationist. Japan and South Korea have very strict immigration policies, but I doubt you'd call them "evil racists".

And saying that immigration is good because you can eat more ethnic food is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. If you want ethnic food so badly, you can look up recipes online. No need to import the actual people.

[American California]

Why should they be allowed to come to the US, period? Their intentions are irrelevant.

Why should they be denied the same opportunities that you and I are granted if they are willing to work for them?

Because they, as foreign nationals, are not entitled to anything in this country.

[Greed and Death]

IQ does not actually measure how smart, how wise, how useful, or how deserving of anything anybody is.

Standardize test are pretty much how the US determines your educational opportunities.

[American California]

It's as if you don't care about the needs of countless immigrants. Many are trying to escape poverty, violence, and atrocious social conditions? Why should we tell them that they can't seek a better life?

Furthermore, immigrants are the backbone of the economy. The economy would literally collapse without immigration.
Why should they be allowed to come to the US, period? Their intentions are irrelevant.

No, I do not, because they are not my nor any American's problem. And their intentions for leaving their native lands are entirely irrelevant.

No they are not. The backbone of the American economy is our financial sector and real estate, dominated by native-born Americans. Also, from 1924 to 1965, the United States had a very, very strict immigration policy, and we experienced (barring the Great Depression, which wasn't really related), nearly three decades of unprecedented economic growth.

What's that about border restrictions collapsing the economy? Operation Wetback and the Mexican Repatriation occurred during some of the most prosperous times in American history.

[SaintB]

IQ does not actually measure how smart, how wise, how useful, or how deserving of anything anybody is.

Standardize test are pretty much how the US determines your educational opportunities.

All they measure is how much you know, or how good at guessing you are. IQ has no actual quantifiable bearing on work ethic or personal achievement, creativity, and a whole bunch of other things.

[American California]

Same Bigotry was used to justify slavery and discrimination. we hated the Chinese, the Irish, this isn't new. Now it's irrational fear of the Mexicans, or anyone Hispanic. It's ridiculous and it has to stop.

Completely agreed. I'm hopeful that it will eventually stop, and that people will realize that Hispanic immigration does more good than bad. As someone who lives in Arizona and goes to school in a 70% Hispanic neighborhood, I can assure everyone that the Latino community has integrated and adapted into American culture exceptionally well.

As someone who lives in California and who lives in a county where Asians and Hispanics both outnumber whites, I'd disagree.

Well, Asians have assimilated quite well.

[Sociobiology]

we don't have a reliable way to measure IQ across different cultural backgrounds.

[Genivaria]

Completely agreed. I'm hopeful that it will eventually stop, and that people will realize that Hispanic immigration does more good than bad. As someone who lives in Arizona and goes to school in a 70% Hispanic neighborhood, I can assure everyone that the Latino community has integrated and adapted into American culture exceptionally well.

As someone who lives in California and who lives in a county where Asians and Hispanics both outnumber whites, I'd disagree.

Well, Asians have assimilated quite well.

Well that racist anecdote sure convinced me!

[Genivaria]

Why should immigrants be allowed to come to the US really?
Immigrants help many things with the US, the help the economy, culture and many other things

Exerts from this link:
http://www.venturearticles.com/why-shou ... he-us.html

". Because of immigrants and the innovations and skills they brought to this country, many billion dollar businesses and stocks were created, which helped employ many Americans and make other Americans very rich so they could go on to employ others. Companies like Google, Pfizer, Carnival Corporation, DuPont Paint, Ebay, Intel, Nvidia, Yahoo, Procter & Gamble, and U.S. Steel were all created by immigrants and all help to employ a combined total of millions and millions of Americans. In addition to this, these companies bring billions of dollars into the U.S. Economy."

The immigrants who did this were of a very different extraction, and as the OP alluded to, were high-IQ individuals.

" immigrants also bring diversity and different cultures to this country, which helps promote a better image of the U.S. to other countries and expands business and trade with them. If we were an isolationist country like North Korea, most of our citizens would be poor like them because they would be unable to trade and grow their businesses. We also wouldn't have all these good foods in our country if someone didn't originally bring them here.

Diversity is a source of conflict and division. It is not something we should bring to this country. Everywhere diversity exists, it sucks, whether it be in Ferguson, the Balkans, Palestine, or Darfur

I'm noticing a pattern that people who oppose multiculturalism tend to be historically ignorant.