NationStates

Sanctissima wrote:This tends to be a touchy topic, but I'm curious.

What is your stance on abortion?

In case you're interested, I personally do not support abortion, with the exception of circumstances where the pregnant individual was impregnated as a result of rape, or the pregnancy could endanger their life. In such circumstances, I believe that it's not fair to force the person to go through with the pregnancy, since it was either not incurred willingly or it could threaten their life. I believe that otherwise, it's the person's responsibility to their unborn child to, at the very least, give birth to them. The individual had sex willingly, and knew that pregnancy could be a result. Thus, killing the fetus, in my opinion, is highly irresponsible.

But, hey, that's just me. What do you think?

Luminesa wrote:

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:The capability to experience things is what I'm talking about.

And we're discussing the presence or absence of a thing, not scale. A person experiences, a rock does not.

A fetus can experience things. It has a heartbeat pretty early, it can dream, it can suck its thumb, it can swim around in the womb, it can hear its mother's voice (to some degree), it can eat, and it can experience contentment or fear. Of course, I'm putting all these things down in random order, rather than in the order in which the fetus develops all these abilities, but you get the picture. A fetus can experience things. Thus, it is not a rock, which...as we both know...just sits there.

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:

Harrisvile wrote:I'm pro-choice. It's the woman's body, she is a autonomous human being, she can do whatever the hell she want's to do with her body.

By definition, the fetus isn't her body, genetically it's only 50% hers.

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:

Harrisvile wrote:I'm pro-choice. It's the woman's body, she is a autonomous human being, she can do whatever the hell she want's to do with her body.

By definition, the fetus isn't her body, genetically it's only 50% hers.

Luminesa wrote:

Sanctissima wrote:This tends to be a touchy topic, but I'm curious.

What is your stance on abortion?

In case you're interested, I personally do not support abortion, with the exception of circumstances where the pregnant individual was impregnated as a result of rape, or the pregnancy could endanger their life. In such circumstances, I believe that it's not fair to force the person to go through with the pregnancy, since it was either not incurred willingly or it could threaten their life. I believe that otherwise, it's the person's responsibility to their unborn child to, at the very least, give birth to them. The individual had sex willingly, and knew that pregnancy could be a result. Thus, killing the fetus, in my opinion, is highly irresponsible.

But, hey, that's just me. What do you think?

Hi, Sancti! I love your name, by the way. It's quite pretty.

Usually the amount of people who abort in cases of rape or because of the "mother's health" is very low. People usually abort for other reasons, such as not having enough money, being scared of being abandoned by family, friends, boyfriends, etc.

Indeed, killing the fetus is irresponsible. It doesn't fix anything. That being said, how is killing a baby who was conceived in rape responsible?

I dunno if I'm just overthinking the name or anything, but I've seen the name 'Sanctissima' before. Would you happen to be Catholic?

Luminesa wrote:

Sanctissima wrote:This tends to be a touchy topic, but I'm curious.

What is your stance on abortion?

In case you're interested, I personally do not support abortion, with the exception of circumstances where the pregnant individual was impregnated as a result of rape, or the pregnancy could endanger their life. In such circumstances, I believe that it's not fair to force the person to go through with the pregnancy, since it was either not incurred willingly or it could threaten their life. I believe that otherwise, it's the person's responsibility to their unborn child to, at the very least, give birth to them. The individual had sex willingly, and knew that pregnancy could be a result. Thus, killing the fetus, in my opinion, is highly irresponsible.

But, hey, that's just me. What do you think?

Usually the amount of people who abort in cases of rape or because of the "mother's health" is very low. People usually abort for other reasons, such as not having enough money, being scared of being abandoned by family, friends, boyfriends, etc.

Indeed, killing the fetus is irresponsible. It doesn't fix anything. That being said, how is killing a baby who was conceived in rape responsible?

Lost heros wrote:

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:By definition, the fetus isn't her body, genetically it's only 50% hers.

No shit sherlock. It's still, without consent, using the women's body.

Arcturus Novus wrote:

Soldati senza confini wrote:
See, the problem with your line of thought is that you are comparing "it is the woman's choice and she can ignore your opinion" to "only women can make policy affecting other women".

One is true, the other isn't. Legislators and policy makers are not strictly separated by gender. Usually though, a man or a woman can have an idea that benefits the opposite sex by virtue of being educated about the issue at hand and talking to the opposite sex rather than just assuming what the opposite sex thinks.

...This makes more sense than my current perception of the situation. Thanks.

Luminesa wrote:
So are you talking about, like, when a woman has a miscarriage?

As far as the procedure itself goes, abortion usually involves the ending of a pregnancy by killing a human baby. But if you're talking about a miscarriage, that's different, because the baby is already dead.

Soldati senza confini wrote:

Lost heros wrote:No shit sherlock. It's still, without consent, using the women's body.

Your mileage may vary on that one.

Neutraligon wrote:

Luminesa wrote:
A fetus can experience things. It has a heartbeat pretty early, it can dream, it can suck its thumb, it can swim around in the womb, it can hear its mother's voice (to some degree), it can eat, and it can experience contentment or fear. Of course, I'm putting all these things down in random order, rather than in the order in which the fetus develops all these abilities, but you get the picture. A fetus can experience things. Thus, it is not a rock, which...as we both know...just sits there.

Provide a source that says it can dream. Provide a source that those motions are anything other than reflexes. Source that it can hear the mothers voice. Source that it can eat. Source that ic can experience contentment or fear.

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:

Luminesa wrote:
So are you talking about, like, when a woman has a miscarriage?

As far as the procedure itself goes, abortion usually involves the ending of a pregnancy by killing a human baby. But if you're talking about a miscarriage, that's different, because the baby is already dead.

Your ability to misuse these terms astounds me.

In both a miscarriage and an abortion, the pregnancy ends and the fetus usually dies.

Here's the common analogy: Let's say you wake up after a horrible car accident to find yourself sharing a hospital bed with a famous music composer. This composer's kidneys and liver have been destroyed in the accident, and in a quick hack job to keep him alive the paramedics attached tubes from your body to his. You are filtering his blood through your kidneys and liver, and he needs you to do this to live. He's going to need this for nine months, when donor organs will be made available to him.

Should you be compelled by the state to go through with this?

Luminesa wrote:

Sanctissima wrote:This tends to be a touchy topic, but I'm curious.

What is your stance on abortion?

In case you're interested, I personally do not support abortion, with the exception of circumstances where the pregnant individual was impregnated as a result of rape, or the pregnancy could endanger their life. In such circumstances, I believe that it's not fair to force the person to go through with the pregnancy, since it was either not incurred willingly or it could threaten their life. I believe that otherwise, it's the person's responsibility to their unborn child to, at the very least, give birth to them. The individual had sex willingly, and knew that pregnancy could be a result. Thus, killing the fetus, in my opinion, is highly irresponsible.

But, hey, that's just me. What do you think?

Hi, Sancti! I love your name, by the way. It's quite pretty.

Usually the amount of people who abort in cases of rape or because of the "mother's health" is very low. People usually abort for other reasons, such as not having enough money, being scared of being abandoned by family, friends, boyfriends, etc.

Indeed, killing the fetus is irresponsible. It doesn't fix anything. That being said, how is killing a baby who was conceived in rape responsible?

I dunno if I'm just overthinking the name or anything, but I've seen the name 'Sanctissima' before. Would you happen to be Catholic?

Soldati senza confini wrote:

Arcturus Novus wrote:...This makes more sense than my current perception of the situation. Thanks.

No problem.

Trust me, after living with a misogynistic grandmother it becomes easier to understand not all women are actually concerned about the best interest of fellow women.

Neutraligon wrote:

Luminesa wrote:
A fetus can experience things. It has a heartbeat pretty early, it can dream, it can suck its thumb, it can swim around in the womb, it can hear its mother's voice (to some degree), it can eat, and it can experience contentment or fear. Of course, I'm putting all these things down in random order, rather than in the order in which the fetus develops all these abilities, but you get the picture. A fetus can experience things. Thus, it is not a rock, which...as we both know...just sits there.

Provide a source that says it can dream. Provide a source that those motions are anything other than reflexes. Source that it can hear the mothers voice. Source that it can eat. Source that ic can experience contentment or fear.

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-Unintended-Pregnancy-US.html

95% of unintended pregnancies are caused by misuse or disuse of contraceptives, and unintended pregnancy is the main reason why women get abortions.
This is why I do not support abortion unless the woman in question is either a rape victim or there may be life-threatening complications.
One shouldn't get to abort their fetus because they used contraceptives improperly or didn't use them at all.

Luminesa wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:
Provide a source that says it can dream. Provide a source that those motions are anything other than reflexes. Source that it can hear the mothers voice. Source that it can eat. Source that ic can experience contentment or fear.

Whoa! One at a time! Okay...(This is what I get for debating online when I should be doing Spanish homework...)

Okay, here you go:
http://www.pregnancy.org/article/overvi ... evelopment

This is an overview. Tell me if I left anything out.

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-Unintended-Pregnancy-US.html

95% of unintended pregnancies are caused by misuse or disuse of contraceptives, and unintended pregnancy is the main reason why women get abortions.
This is why I do not support abortion unless the woman in question is either a rape victim or there may be life-threatening complications.
One shouldn't get to abort their fetus because they used contraceptives improperly or didn't use them at all.

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-Unintended-Pregnancy-US.html

95% of unintended pregnancies are caused by misuse or disuse of contraceptives, and unintended pregnancy is the main reason why women get abortions.
This is why I do not support abortion unless the woman in question is either a rape victim or there may be life-threatening complications.
One shouldn't get to abort their fetus because they used contraceptives improperly or didn't use them at all.

Luminesa wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:
Provide a source that says it can dream. Provide a source that those motions are anything other than reflexes. Source that it can hear the mothers voice. Source that it can eat. Source that ic can experience contentment or fear.

Whoa! One at a time! Okay...(This is what I get for debating online when I should be doing Spanish homework...)

Okay, here you go:
http://www.pregnancy.org/article/overvi ... evelopment

This is an overview. Tell me if I left anything out.

Luminesa wrote:

Sanctissima wrote:This tends to be a touchy topic, but I'm curious.

What is your stance on abortion?

In case you're interested, I personally do not support abortion, with the exception of circumstances where the pregnant individual was impregnated as a result of rape, or the pregnancy could endanger their life. In such circumstances, I believe that it's not fair to force the person to go through with the pregnancy, since it was either not incurred willingly or it could threaten their life. I believe that otherwise, it's the person's responsibility to their unborn child to, at the very least, give birth to them. The individual had sex willingly, and knew that pregnancy could be a result. Thus, killing the fetus, in my opinion, is highly irresponsible.

But, hey, that's just me. What do you think?

Hi, Sancti! I love your name, by the way. It's quite pretty.

Usually the amount of people who abort in cases of rape or because of the "mother's health" is very low. People usually abort for other reasons, such as not having enough money, being scared of being abandoned by family, friends, boyfriends, etc.

Indeed, killing the fetus is irresponsible. It doesn't fix anything. That being said, how is killing a baby who was conceived in rape responsible?

I dunno if I'm just overthinking the name or anything, but I've seen the name 'Sanctissima' before. Would you happen to be Catholic?

Lost heros wrote:

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-Unintended-Pregnancy-US.html

95% of unintended pregnancies are caused by misuse or disuse of contraceptives, and unintended pregnancy is the main reason why women get abortions.
This is why I do not support abortion unless the woman in question is either a rape victim or there may be life-threatening complications.
One shouldn't get to abort their fetus because they used contraceptives improperly or didn't use them at all.

So if I drive without my seatbelt, I deserve to die in a crash?

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:
Provide a source that says it can dream. Provide a source that those motions are anything other than reflexes. Source that it can hear the mothers voice. Source that it can eat. Source that ic can experience contentment or fear.

I can say with relative certainty that most fetuses will survive childbirth and be capable of eventually doing these things.

The Confederacy of Nationalism wrote:http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-Unintended-Pregnancy-US.html

95% of unintended pregnancies are caused by misuse or disuse of contraceptives, and unintended pregnancy is the main reason why women get abortions.
This is why I do not support abortion unless the woman in question is either a rape victim or there may be life-threatening complications.
One shouldn't get to abort their fetus because they used contraceptives improperly or didn't use them at all.