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Radical Islamist knife attack in France

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Evil the Great
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Radical Islamist knife attack in France

Postby Evil the Great » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:04 am

http://www.euronews.com/2014/12/20/allahu-akbar-lone-wolf-attacker-shot-dead-by-french-police/

So, this happened in Central France, not very far from where I live, and the whole country is in shock. A suspected ISIS follower, who was a muslim french citizen from Burundi, walked up to a police station and started stabbing cops while shouting "allahuakbar", leaving two severely wounded. The attacker was then shot dead. France's law enforcement minister, Bernard Cazeneuve, is expected to come to the city without delay. But it is expectable that the only thing he will be able to do is admit the failure of the current government's policy towards radical islamism.

While politicians from the FN suggested taking away the french citizenship of those gone to fight in Syria, and arresting those who come home, the rest of the so-called political elite is being silent, even denying that there is a problem related to Islam within the french society, and that answers should be quicly looked for. The intelligentsia even approved the firing of political analyst Eric Zemmour for "islamophobic views" ( note: he was merely saying that France should fight harder against radical islamism and that muslims should put their efforts into assimilating themselves to the rest of society ) and launched fatwas ( sorry for the irony of my phrasing ) against novelist Michel Houellebecq for writing a satire book foreseeing a France crushed under an authoritarian islamic regime. Obviously you'd only need two weak neurons to figure out his purpose is simply to make the public more sensitive to the evils of Da'ech.

In 1905, the Radical Party, a French Republican Party advocating "laïcité", which is the french way of secularism, launched a successful political movement against the Catholic Church, that was still enormously popular and powerful at the time. This campaign even involved strong anti-religious dialectic, and it definitely managed to make blind faith and religious extremism recede throughout the country.

But nowadays, the heirs of these freemasons ( who always were very much involved with the French Empire, and then with the French Republic ), who are still holding many of the key posts in Government are doing nothing. Advocating tolerance and multiculturalism while french muslims are quickly radicalizing, they do not have any proposition to actually solve the problems. Worse, they often encourage elected officials to finance the building of new Mosques, regardless of the nature of the Imam's position on takfirism. That's a shameless betrayal of our founding principles.

So, not only is this dangerously masochistic, but it is also a violation of the very principles of the Republic, which is supposed to be separated from any religion or cult. Keep in mind that these are the same people that dare to call the FN unrepublican, while they have done a decent job at toning down the racialist rethoric once and for all, and while they're the only ones actually daring to stand up to these new challenges. I can't really support them, their economic policies are utter shit, but why are the others keeping their mouths shut? Fear? Cheer Stupidity?

What are your thoughts on the way the french should deal with all these new problems? What predictions would you make on the future of France, in the light of these events, and this governmental weakness?
Last edited by Evil the Great on Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:21 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Badakhishan
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Postby Badakhishan » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:26 am

More "ALL MUUZLEEMZ ARE EBIL"
Great.


This man [the terrorist] has no idea what ISLAM means. Nobody reads the Qur'an nowadays.
1. Terrorism is above all murder. Murder is strictly forbidden in the Qur’an. Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”
2. If the motive for terrorism is religious, it is impermissible in Islamic law. It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on other people. The Qur’an says, “There is no compulsion in religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The Cow, 2:256). Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in 622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse of the Quran. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.
3. Islamic law forbids aggressive warfare. The Quran says, “But if the enemies incline towards peace, do you also incline towards peace. And trust in God! For He is the one who hears and knows all things.” (8:61) The Quran chapter “The Cow,” 2:190, says, “Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not aggressors.”
4. In the Islamic law of war, not just any civil engineer can declare or launch a war. It is the prerogative of the duly constituted leader of the Muslim community that engages in the war. Nowadays that would be the president or prime minister of the state, as advised by the mufti or national jurisconsult.
5. The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden. According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm; do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)
6. Terrorism or hirabah is forbidden in Islamic law, which groups it with brigandage, highway robbery and extortion rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces for money or power. The principle of forbidding the spreading of terror in the land is based on the Qur’an (Surah al-Ma’ida 5:33–34). Prominent [pdf] Muslim legal scholar Sherman Jackson writes, “The Spanish Maliki jurist Ibn `Abd al-Barr (d. 464/ 1070)) defines the agent of hiraba as ‘Anyone who disturbs free passage in the streets and renders them unsafe to travel, striving to spread corruption in the land by taking money, killing people or violating what God has made it unlawful to violate is guilty of hirabah . . .”
7. Sneak attacks are forbidden. Muslim commanders must give the enemy fair warning that war is imminent. The Prophet Muhammad at one point gave 4 months notice.
8. The Prophet Muhammad counseled doing good to those who harm you and is said to have commanded, “Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
9. The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice toward people even where they have reason to be angry with them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8]
10. The Qur’an assures Christians and Jews of paradise if they believe and do good works, and commends Christians as the best friends of Muslims. I wrote elsewhere, “Dangerous falsehoods are being promulgated to the American public. The Quran does not preach violence against Christians.
Last edited by Badakhishan on Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
NSG's resident Afghan Deobandi Islamist in Iran - yep shit.
"The militant atheist ridicules, demonizes and discriminates against theists because of the same reasons the Christian Church ridicules, demonizes and discriminates against Hebrews, Muslims and "Pagans". Fear. Fear born of the fact that no matter how oppressive one is, no matter how brutal and no matter how obscene, faith will not bow to the will of ignorant, terrified men."

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Evil the Great
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Postby Evil the Great » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:26 am

Nobody gives a shit? That's a major problem. We're most likely the country that has the biggest number of citizens in ISIS...

I hope you guys don't believe I'm a conspirationist when I mentioned the Radical Party's freemasons. These guys were right.
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Evil the Great
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Postby Evil the Great » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:28 am

Badakhishan wrote:More "ALL MUUZLEEMZ ARE EBIL"


:rofl: Dude did you even read what I wrote? All muslims are not evil. I reject the notion of evil anyway. But french muslims are slowily moving towards radicalism, that's a fact. That is the problem. Not Islam altogether.
Koweit, the United Arab Emirates and Tunisia, for example, are moderate muslim countries I respect very much.

This man has no idea what ISLAM means.
1. Terrorism is above all murder. Murder is strictly forbidden in the Qur’an. Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”
2. If the motive for terrorism is religious, it is impermissible in Islamic law. It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on other people. The Qur’an says, “There is no compulsion in religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The Cow, 2:256). Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in 622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse of the Quran. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.
3. Islamic law forbids aggressive warfare. The Quran says, “But if the enemies incline towards peace, do you also incline towards peace. And trust in God! For He is the one who hears and knows all things.” (8:61) The Quran chapter “The Cow,” 2:190, says, “Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not aggressors.”
4. In the Islamic law of war, not just any civil engineer can declare or launch a war. It is the prerogative of the duly constituted leader of the Muslim community that engages in the war. Nowadays that would be the president or prime minister of the state, as advised by the mufti or national jurisconsult.
5. The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden. According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm; do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)
6. Terrorism or hirabah is forbidden in Islamic law, which groups it with brigandage, highway robbery and extortion rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces for money or power. The principle of forbidding the spreading of terror in the land is based on the Qur’an (Surah al-Ma’ida 5:33–34). Prominent [pdf] Muslim legal scholar Sherman Jackson writes, “The Spanish Maliki jurist Ibn `Abd al-Barr (d. 464/ 1070)) defines the agent of hiraba as ‘Anyone who disturbs free passage in the streets and renders them unsafe to travel, striving to spread corruption in the land by taking money, killing people or violating what God has made it unlawful to violate is guilty of hirabah . . .”
7. Sneak attacks are forbidden. Muslim commanders must give the enemy fair warning that war is imminent. The Prophet Muhammad at one point gave 4 months notice.
8. The Prophet Muhammad counseled doing good to those who harm you and is said to have commanded, “Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
9. The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice toward people even where they have reason to be angry with them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8]
10. The Qur’an assures Christians and Jews of paradise if they believe and do good works, and commends Christians as the best friends of Muslims. I wrote elsewhere, “Dangerous falsehoods are being promulgated to the American public. The Quran does not preach violence against Christians.


Yeah. Not all muslims see things your way. I know that Islam is not supposed to tolerate terrorists.
Last edited by Evil the Great on Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sebastianbourg
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Postby Sebastianbourg » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:51 am

Evil the Great wrote:I hope you guys don't believe I'm a conspirationist when I mentioned the Radical Party's freemasons. These guys were right.

Not all all. I hold Freemasons in high regard.

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Lordieth
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Postby Lordieth » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:53 am

Clearly this is a time for reactionary laws that restrict civil liberties.
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Badakhishan
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Postby Badakhishan » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:55 am

Lordieth wrote:Clearly this is a time for reactionary laws that restrict civil liberties.

Clearly.
NSG's resident Afghan Deobandi Islamist in Iran - yep shit.
"The militant atheist ridicules, demonizes and discriminates against theists because of the same reasons the Christian Church ridicules, demonizes and discriminates against Hebrews, Muslims and "Pagans". Fear. Fear born of the fact that no matter how oppressive one is, no matter how brutal and no matter how obscene, faith will not bow to the will of ignorant, terrified men."

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Sebastianbourg
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Postby Sebastianbourg » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:56 am

OP, I would imagine the entire body of posters here is horrified at this. It's not that we don't care; we just don't have a solution to radicalism.

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Valaran
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Postby Valaran » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:05 am

Evil the Great wrote:Nobody gives a shit? That's a major problem. We're most likely the country that has the biggest number of citizens in ISIS...


For the record the nation with the most foreign fighters in IS is Tunisia.
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Iwassoclose
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Postby Iwassoclose » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:06 am

While politicians from the FN suggested taking away the french citizenship of those gone to fight in Syria, and arresting those who come home, the rest of the so-called political elite is being silent, even denying that there is a problem related to Islam within the french society, and that answers should be quicly looked for.


One should only have to look at Denmark to look at what happens when they deny the problem and act like everything is alright when people come back from Syria/Iraq.

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Evil the Great
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Postby Evil the Great » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:16 am

Valaran wrote:For the record the nation with the most foreign fighters in IS is Tunisia.


Yeah, I should have said "out of western nations'".


Sebastianbourg wrote:Not all all. I hold Freemasons in high regard.


Yeah well, those who participated in the French Revolution and accompanied Napoleon were indeed heroes, but these days, I am afraid many of them have turned into something they should not have, in France at least. They're not as strong-spirited as they were, and are really doing a poor job at upholding any value. They need to go back to their old ways :D

Iwassoclose wrote:One should only have to look at Denmark to look at what happens when they deny the problem and act like everything is alright when people come back from Syria/Iraq.


What is happening in Denmark? If that's true that's particularly shameful, given that the Danes are those who suffered the worst percentage of losses while fighting against islamists in Afghanistan. Treasonous, even.
Last edited by Evil the Great on Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Kievan People
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Postby The Kievan People » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:19 am

Evil the Great wrote:Nobody gives a shit? That's a major problem. We're most likely the country that has the biggest number of citizens in ISIS...


It's not really surprising that it happened and it will happen again... so what is there to say?
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Earl of Sandwich IV
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Postby Earl of Sandwich IV » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:21 am

It's a major problem that the mainstream parties in europe have never seriously dealt with muslim immigration. People who are concerned about radical Islam and mass immigration have always been mocked by them. That's why the radical right is able to step in.

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Evil the Great
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Postby Evil the Great » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:24 am

The Kievan People wrote:It's not really surprising that it happened and it will happen again... so what is there to say?


Trying to even remotely suggest solutions to a problem that has the potential of well, not destroying Western Civilization, as fear-mongers would say, but to make our daily lives a really fucked up mess.
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Badakhishan
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Postby Badakhishan » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:26 am

Earl of Sandwich IV wrote:It's a major problem that the mainstream parties in europe have never seriously dealt with muslim immigration. People who are concerned about radical Islam and mass immigration have always been mocked by them. That's why the radical right is able to step in.

Haha.
No.
NSG's resident Afghan Deobandi Islamist in Iran - yep shit.
"The militant atheist ridicules, demonizes and discriminates against theists because of the same reasons the Christian Church ridicules, demonizes and discriminates against Hebrews, Muslims and "Pagans". Fear. Fear born of the fact that no matter how oppressive one is, no matter how brutal and no matter how obscene, faith will not bow to the will of ignorant, terrified men."

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Valaran
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Postby Valaran » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:26 am

Evil the Great wrote:
Valaran wrote:For the record the nation with the most foreign fighters in IS is Tunisia.


Yeah, I should have said "out of western nations'".


Ah, ok.

Yeah, from just the Western nations (excluding Russia) France does have the highest number of IS fighters
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Valaran wrote:To be fair though.... I was judging on coolness factor, the most important criteria in any war.
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Martean
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Postby Martean » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:27 am

200,000 more votes for Marine Le-Pen
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Valaran
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Postby Valaran » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:28 am

Badakhishan wrote:
Earl of Sandwich IV wrote:It's a major problem that the mainstream parties in europe have never seriously dealt with muslim immigration. People who are concerned about radical Islam and mass immigration have always been mocked by them. That's why the radical right is able to step in.

Haha.
No.



Exactly. Mass immigration is not that related to radicalisation (the vast majority of IS come from primarily islamic nations).
Last edited by Valaran on Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
I used to run an alliance, and a region. Not that it matters now.
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:"I don't always nice, but when I do, I build it up." Valaran
Valaran wrote:To be fair though.... I was judging on coolness factor, the most important criteria in any war.
Zoboyizakoplayoklot wrote:Val: NS's resident mindless zombie
Planita wrote:you just set the OP on fire

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Evil the Great
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Postby Evil the Great » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:29 am

Martean wrote:200,000 more votes for Marine Le-Pen


Most likely, yeah.
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Fortschritte
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Postby Fortschritte » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:30 am

Earl of Sandwich IV wrote:It's a major problem that the mainstream parties in europe have never seriously dealt with muslim immigration. People who are concerned about radical Islam and mass immigration have always been mocked by them. That's why the radical right is able to step in.


Muslim immigration is not a problem. Radicalism is, and curbing immigration will not stop radicalism. The radical right, on the other hand, is a problem since it uses fearmongering and populism to win votes.
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Fortschritte
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Postby Fortschritte » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:30 am

Martean wrote:200,000 more votes for Marine Le-Pen


Jesus, I hope not.
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Evil the Great
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Postby Evil the Great » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:31 am

Valaran wrote:
Evil the Great wrote:
Yeah, I should have said "out of western nations'".


Ah, ok.

Yeah, from just the Western nations (excluding Russia) France does have the highest number of IS fighters


Yep, indeed Russians don't really see themselves as westerners. Most of their IS fighters are from the Caucasus. And Chechnya.
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Badakhishan
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Postby Badakhishan » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:31 am

Fortschritte wrote:
Earl of Sandwich IV wrote:It's a major problem that the mainstream parties in europe have never seriously dealt with muslim immigration. People who are concerned about radical Islam and mass immigration have always been mocked by them. That's why the radical right is able to step in.


Muslim immigration is not a problem. Radicalism is, and curbing immigration will not stop radicalism. The radical right, on the other hand, is a problem since it uses fearmongering and populism to win votes.

What's bad with populism?
NSG's resident Afghan Deobandi Islamist in Iran - yep shit.
"The militant atheist ridicules, demonizes and discriminates against theists because of the same reasons the Christian Church ridicules, demonizes and discriminates against Hebrews, Muslims and "Pagans". Fear. Fear born of the fact that no matter how oppressive one is, no matter how brutal and no matter how obscene, faith will not bow to the will of ignorant, terrified men."

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Valaran
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Postby Valaran » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:32 am

Fortschritte wrote:
Earl of Sandwich IV wrote:It's a major problem that the mainstream parties in europe have never seriously dealt with muslim immigration. People who are concerned about radical Islam and mass immigration have always been mocked by them. That's why the radical right is able to step in.


Muslim immigration is not a problem. Radicalism is, and curbing immigration will not stop radicalism. The radical right, on the other hand, is a problem since it uses fearmongering and populism to win votes.



Succinct summary of my view there :)

Evil the Great wrote:
Valaran wrote:
Ah, ok.

Yeah, from just the Western nations (excluding Russia) France does have the highest number of IS fighters


Yep, indeed Russians don't really see themselves as westerners. Most of their IS fighters are from the Caucasus. And Chechnya.


They don't and I assumed that's where they originated from but everyone has their own classification system :p
I used to run an alliance, and a region. Not that it matters now.
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:"I don't always nice, but when I do, I build it up." Valaran
Valaran wrote:To be fair though.... I was judging on coolness factor, the most important criteria in any war.
Zoboyizakoplayoklot wrote:Val: NS's resident mindless zombie
Planita wrote:you just set the OP on fire

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Fortschritte
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Postby Fortschritte » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:33 am

Badakhishan wrote:
Fortschritte wrote:
Muslim immigration is not a problem. Radicalism is, and curbing immigration will not stop radicalism. The radical right, on the other hand, is a problem since it uses fearmongering and populism to win votes.

What's bad with populism?


It often demonizes various groups and stirs up fear, instead of providing actual policies. Quite frankly, populism is dangerous.
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