Oath Keepers patrolling Ferguson going to use lethal force

[Seaxeland]

Oh yeah, because the National Guard was handling the situation so well...

Normally I am against citizens taking the law into their own hands, but if the authorities are too incompetent to do their jobs properly, then maybe the people are better off policing themselves.

and you think it would have been better if random civilians had had guns?

youre dreaming.

No, I'm not, I'm right here in reality, not in liberal la la land like you.

[Keyboard Warriors]

that's why we have police.

They seem a bit overstretched.

I'm not saying vigilantes are good but how is this "fascist"? It's ridiculous to think that these people are dangerous but the rioters are justifiable.

It's not ridiculous to think these people are just dangerous though.

and you think it would have been better if random civilians had had guns?

youre dreaming.

No, I'm not, I'm right here in reality, not in liberal la la land like you.

Do you have to be in liberal la la land to understand why giving the untrained, uncertified and legal illiterate guns and encouraging them to uphold the law is a bad idea?

[The Lone Star Republics]

The Oath Keepers gun rights group is seeking volunteers to patrol Ferguson to guard against looting and vandalism.

The militia-style group sought veteran police officers and firefighters, HAM radio operators, truck drivers, photographers, and “direct action infantry” with their own body armor and other tactical gear to volunteer for the overnight patrols.

At least 10 members so far have traveled from as far as Iowa to the Missouri town, reported Sky News, where months of simmering protests exploded Monday night after a grand jury declined to indict Officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown.

“The people of Ferguson have learned a sad and difficult lesson, that there aren’t enough police and National Guard to help police all the homes and businesses,” said Sam Andrews, who organized the Oath Keeper patrols. “When you see a militarized police force and angry citizens who choose to be violent it becomes a very volatile and dangerous situation.”

Andrews, who was carrying a handgun and military-style rifle fitted with a silencer, told Sky News his group was prepared to use lethal force to protect property.

The Oath Keepers are made up of law enforcement officers, firefighters, current and former military, and other first responders who have vowed not to enforce gun laws and others they deem to be unconstitutional – and they urge others to do the same.

They urged volunteers to focus on looters and law-breakers, rather than bullying media and protestors.

“We need officers to put violent criminals in jail, not shoot tear gas and rubber bullets at reporters too ignorant to not shine lights in the officers’ eyes while they are trying to work,” the group said.

The Oath Keepers harshly criticized Democratic Gov. Jay Nixon’s response to the protests, which they described as “riot control tactics” that violated the demonstrators’ constitutional rights.

“With hundreds of criminals stealing the businesses of Ferguson blind and damaging private property, how many arrests of actual looters took place?” the group said. “The percentage is embarrassing (and arrests of otherwise peaceful protesters for ‘failure to disperse’ or ‘failure to keep moving’ don’t count).”

Ok, what do you think of this? I think this is horrible, it is cypto-fascism. It is disgusting, they would defend a rich white man who has avoided taxes but they would point guns at the black masses.

Armed groups have helped protect innocent store owners from violent criminal looters for a very long time, its not fascist, not racist, and its a reasonable response to mass arson, looting, and assault. Its pretty terrible that you, OP, associate the civil store owners with being tax-evading rich white men, and these barbaric looters as being black, as if protecting (easily African-American shop owners) from looters regardless of race is somehow racist.

Edit: While some would ainply associate these men with Brownshirts, these two are clearly differant because the brownshirts used mass violence to enforce a political agenda, while this group is simply willing to use necessary violence to defend others, something militias have been doing since before colonial times.

[The Sotoan Union]

They seem a bit overstretched.

I'm not saying vigilantes are good but how is this "fascist"? It's ridiculous to think that these people are dangerous but the rioters are justifiable.

It's not ridiculous to think these people are just dangerous though.

No, I'm not, I'm right here in reality, not in liberal la la land like you.

Do you have to be in liberal la la land to understand why giving the untrained, uncertified and legal illiterate guns and encouraging them to uphold the law is a bad idea?

Anyone there who causes harm and destructions is dangerous.

[Ifreann]

They're not defending their town. They're defending someone else's town.

Then they are trying to protect other people's property. Seems like a similar manner of thinking.

I don't think so. If your house burns down then you need to find somewhere else to live. Whereas if you live in Iowa and someone's house burns down in Ferguson, you can just go home. So defending other people's property isn't really the same as defending your own.

[Greater-London]

I think vigilante justice almost always ends badly.

[The balkens]

and you think it would have been better if random civilians had had guns?

youre dreaming.

No, I'm not, I'm right here in reality, not in liberal la la land like you.

What is this wonderful place?

[Socialist Tera]

Ok, what do you think of this? I think this is horrible, it is cypto-fascism. It is disgusting, they would defend a rich white man who has avoided taxes but they would point guns at the black masses.

Armed groups have helped protect innocent store owners from violent criminal looters for a very long time, its not fascist, not racist, and its a reasonable response to mass arson, looting, and assault. Its pretty terrible that you, OP, associate the civil store owners with being tax-evading rich white men, and these barbaric looters as being black, as if protecting (easily African-American shop owners) from looters regardless of race is somehow racist.

Edit: While some would ainply associate these men with Brownshirts, these two are clearly differant because the brownshirts used mass violence to enforce a political agenda, while this group is simply willing to use necessary violence to defend others, something militias have been doing since before colonial times.

They aren't barbaric, I aplogise for what I said but the Oath Keepers did help a tax evoider. Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggeHYa60D-o

[Risottia]

The Oath Keepers gun rights group is seeking volunteers to patrol Ferguson to guard against looting and vandalism.

Ok, what do you think of this? I think this is horrible, it is crypto-fascism.

It's not "crypto" at all. It's fascist squadristi, plain and simple.

[Pope Joan]

White vigilante groups are planning to attack black organizations.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reconstruc ... 07_qt.html

Why should any black shop owner trust these guys? More likely the owners will be shot in their own stores, as "suspected looters".

[Ifreann]

Ok, what do you think of this? I think this is horrible, it is crypto-fascism.

It's not "crypto" at all. It's fascist squadristi, plain and simple.

No, but see, it's okay, because they help black people sometimes.

[Risottia]

It's not "crypto" at all. It's fascist squadristi, plain and simple.

No, but see, it's okay, because they help black people sometimes.

Hey, even Mussolini had a Jewish mistress!

[Stetterland]

It's not as if they're going to burn down the town. Its own residents did that.

The National Guard was inept, just saying.

[Ifreann]

It's not as if they're going to burn down the town.

They might.

[The Lone Star Republics]

It's not "crypto" at all. It's fascist squadristi, plain and simple.

No, but see, it's okay, because they help black people sometimes.

Or rather theyre protecting stores from looters, many of which are black (the store owners that is). I think its easy to see this situation as criminal versus innocent as opposed to race, especially considering race isnt beholden to one side or the other.

[Scyobayrynn]

Wow, Just really want ot cherry pick dont you.

[quote= "Oath Keepers"]Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, police, and first responders who pledge to fulfill the oath all military and police take to “defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” That oath, mandated by Article VI of the Constitution itself, is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and Oath Keepers declare that they will not obey unconstitutional orders, such as orders to disarm the American people, to conduct warrantless searches, or to detain Americans as “enemy combatants” in violation of their ancient right to jury trial.

Oath Keepers Declaration of Orders We Will Not Obey

1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.
2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people
3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.
10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

….Want to point me to the part of your post you feel represents a counter-argument?

Want to source where you pulled your fake quote from?

[Scyobayrynn]

Tradition of operating as a militia?

On topic, I fully support them. The police and National Guard don't seem to be doing enough to protect people and property, so it's great to see private citizens voluntarily taking on the role despite the risks involved.

When law enforcement officers are selectively enforcing laws, then we have a problem.

When Laws violate constitutional Rights, it is the obligation of Law Officers to in point of fact not obey that law.
The current Law in New York provides for Stop and Frisk(New York State Criminal Procedure Law section 140.50), the constitution however prohibits it.

So I am to assume you support NYC police officers in the Unconstiutional Practice of Stop and Frisk, because /Law/.

[Ifreann]

When law enforcement officers are selectively enforcing laws, then we have a problem.

When Laws violate constitutional Rights, it is the obligation of Law Officers to in point of fact not obey that law.
The current Law in New York provides for Stop and Frisk(New York State Criminal Procedure Law section 140.50), the constitution however prohibits it.

So I am to assume you support NYC police officers in the Unconstiutional Practice of Stop and Frisk, because /Law/.

Whether a law is constitutional or unconstitutional is for the courts to determine, not the police, and not some random dudes with guns.

[East lift]

If you loot than I believe you should be killed.
The cop's did nothing to protect the small business owners who are being taxed out the wazoo to pay for the good for nothing cop's.
The oath keepers are perfect example of anarchism in practice I hope they keep up the good work.

[Sdaeriji]

that's why the governor called up the national guard. we don't need civilian vigilantes.

Oh yeah, because the National Guard was handling the situation so well...

Normally I am against citizens taking the law into their own hands, but if the authorities are too incompetent to do their jobs properly, then maybe the people are better off policing themselves.

I suspect the residents of Ferguson feel that the authorities are too incompetent to do their jobs properly. I suspect a lot of black communities in the country feel that way. I imagine you'd support them if they took the law into their own hands, yes?

[The balkens]

When Laws violate constitutional Rights, it is the obligation of Law Officers to in point of fact not obey that law.
The current Law in New York provides for Stop and Frisk(New York State Criminal Procedure Law section 140.50), the constitution however prohibits it.

So I am to assume you support NYC police officers in the Unconstiutional Practice of Stop and Frisk, because /Law/.

Whether a law is constitutional or unconstitutional is for the courts to determine, not the police, and not some random dudes with guns.

ha.

[Ifreann]

If you loot than I believe you should be killed.
The cop's did nothing to protect the small business owners who are being taxed out the wazoo to pay for the good for nothing cop's.
The oath keepers are perfect example of anarchism in practice I hope they keep up the good work.

This group whose purpose is to protect the US Constitution are the perfect example of anarchism in practice?

---

Whether a law is constitutional or unconstitutional is for the courts to determine, not the police, and not some random dudes with guns.

ha.

What?

[East lift]

If you loot than I believe you should be killed.
The cop's did nothing to protect the small business owners who are being taxed out the wazoo to pay for the good for nothing cop's.
The oath keepers are perfect example of anarchism in practice I hope they keep up the good work.

This group whose purpose is to protect the US Constitution are the perfect example of anarchism in practice?

---

I misspoke I probably should have said non governmental volunteer defense organizations.
Which is commonly associated with anarchist capitalism.

[Ashmoria]

that's why we have police.

They seem a bit overstretched.

I'm not saying vigilantes are good but how is this "fascist"? It's ridiculous to think that these people are dangerous but the rioters are justifiable.

will they be wearing brown shirts?

[Ashmoria]

and you think it would have been better if random civilians had had guns?

youre dreaming.

No, I'm not, I'm right here in reality, not in liberal la la land like you.

it is not liberal to be against roving gangs of gun wielding thugs.