Tell me Brother: How Much Gold is Worth this Much Tar?

[Insaeldor]

People choose to fill there lungs with tar and I can choose to be rich. I think I'll take the $150,000 a year and keep on letting people make there own choices.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

That shouldn't matter to a prospective employee. Personal beliefs aren't to interfere with professional appraisal of ability. And the position you described sounds like excellent proof of ability to me.

I guarantee you... if on your resume you say that you've worked for a tobacco company... almost ANY interviewer is going to bring it up.

And they WILL ask you the moral questions.

You're going to have an awkward time.

No one is just going to gloss it over, it will probably be the most interesting thing on your resume. And it is going to elicit all types of responses, I suspect disgust and suspicion in many cases. They will definitely ask you, and whatever answer you give... it will probably count against you unless they are really desperate.

Not really.

Most common questions an employer asks you about the job (in no particular order):

What did you do?
What did you like about the job?
How do you think this job prepared you for the position for which you are applying?
Who is your supervisor?
Can we call them for a reference?

[The Grey Wolf]

I would take the position in a heartbeat.

So would I.

[Infected Mushroom]

I guarantee you... if on your resume you say that you've worked for a tobacco company... almost ANY interviewer is going to bring it up.

And they WILL ask you the moral questions.

You're going to have an awkward time.

No one is just going to gloss it over, it will probably be the most interesting thing on your resume. And it is going to elicit all types of responses, I suspect disgust and suspicion in many cases. They will definitely ask you, and whatever answer you give... it will probably count against you unless they are really desperate.

Not really.

Most common questions an employer asks you about the job (in no particular order):

What did you do?
What did you like about the job?
How do you think this job prepared you for the position for which you are applying?
Who is your supervisor?
Can we call them for a reference?

so if you were interviewing a candidate to work at your company (and he mentions on his resume that he worked in management at a tobacco company)... you WOULDN'T ask him a moral question about it?

Aren't you interested in seeing if his personal morals, values, and motivations are in line with your personal beliefs and your company's?

I'd definitely ask.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Not really.

Most common questions an employer asks you about the job (in no particular order):

What did you do?
What did you like about the job?
How do you think this job prepared you for the position for which you are applying?
Who is your supervisor?
Can we call them for a reference?

so if you were interviewing a candidate to work at your company (and he mentions on his resume that he worked in management at a tobacco company)... you WOULDN'T ask him a moral question about it?

Aren't you interested in seeing if his personal morals, values, and motivations are in line with your personal beliefs and your company's?

I'd definitely ask.

I wouldn't, really.

We all work for money. I see the tobacco workers as simple workers. They are in my company to do as I say, not for me to gauge their morals regarding the tobacco industry.

Now, that I would ask his personal morals, values, and motivations? Maybe, but I wouldn't ask stupid questions regarding his job and his morals and how they both conflict.

[The Grey Wolf]

you WOULDN'T ask him a moral question about it?

Maybe Soldati doesn't view adults as children and believes they're capable of making decisions for themselves.

A strange form of thought, I know.

[Infected Mushroom]

so if you were interviewing a candidate to work at your company (and he mentions on his resume that he worked in management at a tobacco company)... you WOULDN'T ask him a moral question about it?

Aren't you interested in seeing if his personal morals, values, and motivations are in line with your personal beliefs and your company's?

I'd definitely ask.

I wouldn't, really.

We all work for money. I see the tobacco workers as simple workers. They are in my company to do as I say, not for me to gauge their morals regarding the tobacco industry.

Now, that I would ask his personal morals, values, and motivations? Maybe, but I wouldn't ask stupid questions regarding his job and his morals and how they both conflict.

I wish law firm interviewers thought like you.

Its almost impossible to get a job with them without pretending you are overly enthusiastic about their firm's values, ethics, and culture. They ask all sorts of casual conversational questions to test your wit, morals, and character predisposition.

Heck if I showed up with TOBACCO at the top of my resume, I'm going to be peppered with questions from them for sure.

We have a very different understanding of what employers ask at interviews. My experiences tell me they generally find a few of the most interesting things on your resume and then ask you about them in detail... just to see what you reveal on purpose or accidentally.

If people were saying what they're saying on this forum (''I did it for the money,'' ''it's just like any other business... people choose to smoke, I choose to be rich'') I doubt they would get hired.

[Infected Mushroom]

you WOULDN'T ask him a moral question about it?

Maybe Soldati doesn't view adults as children and believes they're capable of making decisions for themselves.

A strange form of thought, I know.

maybe

[Kernen]

I wouldn't, really.

We all work for money. I see the tobacco workers as simple workers. They are in my company to do as I say, not for me to gauge their morals regarding the tobacco industry.

Now, that I would ask his personal morals, values, and motivations? Maybe, but I wouldn't ask stupid questions regarding his job and his morals and how they both conflict.

I wish law firm interviewers thought like you.

Its almost impossible to get a job with them without pretending you are overly enthusiastic about their firm's values, ethics, and culture. They ask all sorts of casual conversational questions to test your wit, morals, and character predisposition.

Heck if I showed up with TOBACCO at the top of my resume, I'm going to be peppered with questions from them for sure.

We have a very different understanding of what employers ask at interviews. My experiences tell me they generally find a few of the most interesting things on your resume and then ask you about them in detail... just to see what you reveal on purpose or accidentally.

If people were saying what they're saying on this forum (''I did it for the money,'' ''it's just like any other business... people choose to smoke, I choose to be rich'') I doubt they would get hired.

No more would they inquire about that then they inquired about my participation in a paramilitary organization recently noted for homosexual discrimination and atheist intolerance: Boy Scouts. And my interviewer, and now boss, is openly gay. Didn't once come up, because the only morals businesses are about are in the vein of "will you steal from us?". Whether I agreed or disagreed with the official stance of the BSA never came up.

Interviewers don't Care, because it isn't a moral issue.

[Lenciland]

Of course I'd take the job. I like money and a lot of people enjoy cigarettes. They are exchanging money for my goods.

[Infected Mushroom]

I wish law firm interviewers thought like you.

Its almost impossible to get a job with them without pretending you are overly enthusiastic about their firm's values, ethics, and culture. They ask all sorts of casual conversational questions to test your wit, morals, and character predisposition.

Heck if I showed up with TOBACCO at the top of my resume, I'm going to be peppered with questions from them for sure.

We have a very different understanding of what employers ask at interviews. My experiences tell me they generally find a few of the most interesting things on your resume and then ask you about them in detail... just to see what you reveal on purpose or accidentally.

If people were saying what they're saying on this forum (''I did it for the money,'' ''it's just like any other business... people choose to smoke, I choose to be rich'') I doubt they would get hired.

No more would they inquire about that then they inquired about my participation in a paramilitary organization recently noted for homosexual discrimination and atheist intolerance: Boy Scouts. And my interviewer, and now boss, is openly gay. Didn't once come up, because the only morals businesses are about are in the vein of "will you steal from us?". Whether I agreed or disagreed with the official stance of the BSA never came up.

Interviewers don't Care, because it isn't a moral issue.

i don't think they would draw an inference on your moral character based on your sexuality or political views.

But the fact that you were willing to work for an organization that specializes in selling addictive drugs should have some bearing. I think at least some reasonable people would draw some moral inferences from it.

[Infected Mushroom]

Of course I'd take the job. I like money and a lot of people enjoy cigarettes. They are exchanging money for my goods.

what about arms dealing, narcotics, prostitution, gambling?

[Insaeldor]

Of course I'd take the job. I like money and a lot of people enjoy cigarettes. They are exchanging money for my goods.

what about arms dealing, narcotics, prostitution, gambling?

As long as they are done in a legal manner I don't think we really care. Plus arms deal for the slaughtering of people and choosing to inhale a harmful substance are two totally different things.

[Infected Mushroom]

what about arms dealing, narcotics, prostitution, gambling?

As long as they are done in a legal manner I don't think we really care. Plus arms deal for the slaughtering of people and choosing to inhale a harmful substance are two totally different things.

in both cases you're intentionally selling a product that a person can reasonably foresee will result in injury/death.

Almost all long-term smokers (and they will become addicted) will develop some related health issues if not die or get cancer.

[Rhodisia]

the sale of an addictive and health-destroying products through the multiplication of addicts (many of whom come from economically disadvantaged backgrounds)?

generally, inhaling the combustion products of anything isn't very good for your health - by this logic, we should ban weed, crack, campfires, incinerators, coal plants etc

[Trevor Phillip Enterprises]

Before I started this thread, I had no idea money was such a powerful force.

I mean, I knew that gold wins wars... and that the man who pays often wins but I did not expect THIS much level of fixation on the money.

We truly live in a very capitalist age.

I think if you asked people for a lower (but still bearable) position, they wouldn't mind taking the job. The money doesn't compel people to take the job (so much so that they ditch their morals), but its that they have no moral objections to tobacco companies to begin with.

[Infected Mushroom]

the sale of an addictive and health-destroying products through the multiplication of addicts (many of whom come from economically disadvantaged backgrounds)?

generally, inhaling the combustion products of anything isn't very good for your health - by this logic, we should ban weed, crack, campfires, incinerators, coal plants etc

only to the extent that they are sold directly to the consumer as a form of addictive recreational drug

[Atomic Utopia]

generally, inhaling the combustion products of anything isn't very good for your health - by this logic, we should ban weed, crack, campfires, incinerators, coal plants etc

only to the extent that they are sold directly to the consumer as a form of addictive recreational drug

So having someone voluntarily purchase something that may kill them eventually is worse than selling people stuff produced with the high probability it killed others? That is some pretty messed up logic there.

[Infected Mushroom]

only to the extent that they are sold directly to the consumer as a form of addictive recreational drug

So having someone voluntarily purchase something that may kill them eventually is worse than selling people stuff produced with the high probability it killed others? That is some pretty messed up logic there.

are you talking about weapons?

[Stormaen]

Hell yes I'd take the job!

I wouldn't feel bad about it either. Smoking is voluntary. It may be addictive but it is voluntary. People know what they're doing when they smoke. Same with crack or heroin.

Anyway, at 150K per year, you could bleed that job for all it's worth and then quit on ethical grounds once you'd paid off your mortgage on your giant house...

[Infected Mushroom]

I'd take it in a heartbeat! I'm turning 18 in about 4 weeks, and I'm planning to start cigar smoking then myself (like I have dreamed of since I've been, like, 4 years old).

Everybody likes to shit on the tobacco companies, but I think they're flat out hypocrites. You drink liquor? You eat fast food? you ever owned a night light (which is said to cause cancer)? They're all bad for you too. STFU and let me puff in peace!

You've dreamed of smoking since you were 4?

Maybe he read some of those Lucky Luke comics...

[Finland SSR]

Honestly, I would. Just make sure there are breaks for me to get on NS.
In old dinky Lithuania, 150k is like, a dream job. Not even our highest politicians get a third of that.

[Idzequitch]

An interesting question. I dislike tobacco, and I don't understand why anyone uses it (Yes, I know, it's because they're addicted, but why did they use it the first time?)
That said, 150k is several times what I make now. If people know the risks and decide to buy it anyway, that's more their problem than mine. Sure, I'm kind of empowering them to abuse tobacco, but if I didn't do it, someone else would, so I might as well get a six digit salary out of it.

[Gallia-]

As long as they are done in a legal manner I don't think we really care. Plus arms deal for the slaughtering of people and choosing to inhale a harmful substance are two totally different things.

in both cases you're intentionally selling a product that a person can reasonably foresee will result in injury/death.

Almost all long-term smokers (and they will become addicted) will develop some related health issues if not die or get cancer.

So does everyone else.

[Imperium Sidhicum]

An arms dealer doesn't pull the trigger or force another man to pull it, nor does he put a weapon in the hands of someone and encourages him to kill other people - he merely provides a commodity (weapons) to people who have already made the choice to use it. Same is true for tobacco - a tobacco company doesn't make anyone smoke and die of lung cancer, but merely supplies what people choose to pay for. Since there's the element of free personal choice, I don't quite see what is unethical about working for such a company.

Not to mention that tobacco companies aren't really interested in smokers dying early - or who else would be their customers?