NATION

PASSWORD

Why do so many people hate Islam?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
The Union of the West
Minister
 
Posts: 2211
Founded: Jul 07, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Union of the West » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:16 pm

The-South wrote:I think people hate Islam (myself included) as they view it as a corrupt and violent religion that has caused the deaths of many good people.

The religion itself hasn't. However, some of it's more radical adherents have, but are they representative of their faith? Not in my opinion.
☩ Orthodox Christian ☩
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.

User avatar
Olerand
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13169
Founded: Sep 18, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Olerand » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:20 pm

The-South wrote:I think people hate Islam (myself included) as they view it as a corrupt and violent religion that has caused the deaths of many good people.

As has Christianity. As has Judaism, if the Old Testament is to be believed. And many, many more!
French citizen. Still a Socialist Party member. Ségolène Royal 2019, I guess Actually I might vote la France Insoumise.

Qui suis-je?:
Free Rhenish States wrote:You're French, without faith, probably godless, liberal without any traditional values or respect for any faith whatsoever

User avatar
Eastern Denmark
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1189
Founded: Jul 23, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Eastern Denmark » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:27 pm

Threlizdun wrote:
Southern Arkansas wrote:I'm guessing it's because Islam isn't compatible with their social liberalism.
Sure it is. There are plenty of Muslim social liberals.
Burleson wrote:Islam's entire history has been filled with attacks on innocent people. Forced conversion of people in north Africa and the Middle East, the crusades, constant attacks on Israel, terrorism against America (9/11, Benghazi, etc.), Boko Haram's attacks, Sudan, violation of human rights and women's rights in islamic countries, ISIS, and the Iranian Hostage Crisis.
Christianity has a much greater history of violence than Islam. Radical Islam only really gained prominence in the last century. Prior to that, while violence carried out by Muslims certainly wasn't uncommon, it was at levels equal too or at quite a few periods lesser than those of other faiths at the time.


The crusades wasn't a single sided sword. Muslims blocked out Christians. Christians want in. Muslims say no. Christians attack. Muslims attack. War. It wasn't: Christians savagely mutilate the entire Muslim populace for no good reason. The Muslims blocked out peaceful Christians so the Pope starts a holy war.

Christianity as a religion didn't have a "Much greater history of violence" it would be fairly equal or lean slightly to the Christianity side, until you get to the modern world which definitely makes Shiite Islam more violent.
Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be. -Miguel De Cervantes

User avatar
The-South
Secretary
 
Posts: 29
Founded: Nov 26, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The-South » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:29 pm

The Union of the West wrote:
The-South wrote:I think people hate Islam (myself included) as they view it as a corrupt and violent religion that has caused the deaths of many good people.

The religion itself hasn't. However, some of it's more radical adherents have, but are they representative of their faith? Not in my opinion.


Its an underlying problem that the material in their "holy book" allows for them to promote violence.
The south will rise again!

Christian and a Gun-Owner and proud of it.

User avatar
The Union of the West
Minister
 
Posts: 2211
Founded: Jul 07, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Union of the West » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:30 pm

The-South wrote:
The Union of the West wrote:The religion itself hasn't. However, some of it's more radical adherents have, but are they representative of their faith? Not in my opinion.


Its an underlying problem that the material in their "holy book" allows for them to promote violence.

You make a fair point. However, most Muslims do not interpret it that way.
☩ Orthodox Christian ☩
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.

User avatar
Lechites
Diplomat
 
Posts: 512
Founded: Nov 25, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Lechites » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:34 pm

I've never actually met a person that I've associated with that can't tell the difference between radical Islam and Islam and it's followers. It's a rather simple concept.

User avatar
Eastern Denmark
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1189
Founded: Jul 23, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Eastern Denmark » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:34 pm

The Union of the West wrote:
The-South wrote:
Its an underlying problem that the material in their "holy book" allows for them to promote violence.

You make a fair point. However, most Muslims do not interpret it that way.


About 10%-13% interpret it that way
Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be. -Miguel De Cervantes

User avatar
The Union of the West
Minister
 
Posts: 2211
Founded: Jul 07, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Union of the West » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:35 pm

Eastern Denmark wrote:
The Union of the West wrote:You make a fair point. However, most Muslims do not interpret it that way.


About 10%-13% interpret it that way

Probably not even that much.
☩ Orthodox Christian ☩
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.

User avatar
Eastern Denmark
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1189
Founded: Jul 23, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Eastern Denmark » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:42 pm

The Union of the West wrote:
Eastern Denmark wrote:
About 10%-13% interpret it that way

Probably not even that much.


That's the percentage of Shiites so I guess it might be lower. Obviously some Shiites wouldn't interpret it that way but some Sunnis might.
Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be. -Miguel De Cervantes

User avatar
Sun Wukong
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9798
Founded: Oct 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Sun Wukong » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:15 pm

Eastern Denmark wrote:
Threlizdun wrote:Sure it is. There are plenty of Muslim social liberals.
Christianity has a much greater history of violence than Islam. Radical Islam only really gained prominence in the last century. Prior to that, while violence carried out by Muslims certainly wasn't uncommon, it was at levels equal too or at quite a few periods lesser than those of other faiths at the time.


The crusades wasn't a single sided sword. Muslims blocked out Christians. Christians want in. Muslims say no. Christians attack. Muslims attack. War. It wasn't: Christians savagely mutilate the entire Muslim populace for no good reason. The Muslims blocked out peaceful Christians so the Pope starts a holy war.

Somehow I think that if the US closed its borders to Mexican immigration, and Mexico responded with "to kill a Yankee is not a sin! Deus Vult!" you wouldn't be defending that as two-sided.
Great Sage, Equal of Heaven.

User avatar
Eastern Denmark
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1189
Founded: Jul 23, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Eastern Denmark » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:18 pm

Sun Wukong wrote:
Eastern Denmark wrote:
The crusades wasn't a single sided sword. Muslims blocked out Christians. Christians want in. Muslims say no. Christians attack. Muslims attack. War. It wasn't: Christians savagely mutilate the entire Muslim populace for no good reason. The Muslims blocked out peaceful Christians so the Pope starts a holy war.

Somehow I think that if the US closed its borders to Mexican immigration, and Mexico responded with "to kill a Yankee is not a sin! Deus Vult!" you wouldn't be defending that as two-sided.


If they had both attacked eachother multiple times I would say it is.
Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be. -Miguel De Cervantes

User avatar
Skinia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1545
Founded: Nov 23, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Skinia » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:20 pm

The-South wrote:I think people hate Islam (myself included) as they view it as a corrupt and violent religion that has caused the deaths of many good people.

I find christianity to be thoroughly despicable for the same reasons than islam. It's dumb, it's bloody and their holy books are shoved up the anuses of the children in religious households by their parents during their upbringing. Also, both religions have such lovely tolerance for child molestation and molesters.
Synthesis anarchist, eco-socialist, queer feminist and your friendly neighborhood violent drugged-out potty-mouth with a gun boner. I am a gynephilic bisexual.
Anti-authoritarian, anti-capitalist, anti-discrimination, anti-fascist, anti-genderist, anti-leninist, anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-sexualist, anti-statist and anti-theist.
Straight marriage should be illegal. My holy book told me so. According to Levitacos, the punishment for heterosexuality is tickling the bottoms of their feet.
There are no other gods than Young Urban Perverts and Jarkko Martikainen is their prophet. Peace be upon Him. (I am not a skinhead in real life. This is just a skinhead-themed nation. Now get off me.)

User avatar
Tierra Prime
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7080
Founded: Apr 07, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Tierra Prime » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:25 pm

The Union of the West wrote:
The-South wrote:I think people hate Islam (myself included) as they view it as a corrupt and violent religion that has caused the deaths of many good people.

The religion itself hasn't. However, some of it's more radical adherents have, but are they representative of their faith? Not in my opinion.

The rise of Islam directly caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people during the Arab jihads into the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, Sassanid Persia, and Visigoth Spain.
Last edited by Tierra Prime on Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Sun Wukong
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9798
Founded: Oct 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Sun Wukong » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:29 pm

Eastern Denmark wrote:
Sun Wukong wrote:Somehow I think that if the US closed its borders to Mexican immigration, and Mexico responded with "to kill a Yankee is not a sin! Deus Vult!" you wouldn't be defending that as two-sided.


If they had both attacked eachother multiple times I would say it is.

The Seljuks had never once launched an attack on Western Europe.

But it's not really a rebuttal in any case. The US and Mexico have fought wars.
Last edited by Sun Wukong on Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Great Sage, Equal of Heaven.

User avatar
Blakk Metal
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6738
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Blakk Metal » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:42 pm

Divitaen wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:
You didn't adress the dynamics of social alienation I mentioned. White flight is real. A German, a Brit or a Swede can be the most open-minded, multicultural person in the world and deliberately live in a multi-ethnic neighborhood, but as soon as it comes to sending their own kids to a immigrant-majority public school? Nope, off to a private school or a better neighborhood it is then.


That is true, and I believe that that white flight and desire to alienate and force them the Muslims into segregated neighbourhoods stems from Islamophobic xenophobia.

No, it happens because the Muslims treat the natives like crap.

User avatar
Benuty
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37334
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:24 pm

Olerand wrote:
The-South wrote:I think people hate Islam (myself included) as they view it as a corrupt and violent religion that has caused the deaths of many good people.

As has Christianity. As has Judaism, if the Old Testament is to be believed. And many, many more!

If you were to ignore the historical existence of Yahwism...then sure!

Of-course the Old Testament has nowhere near the validity of the Tanach.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity. Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

User avatar
Big Jim P
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55158
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Big Jim P » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:42 am

Araksasya wrote:Just because of 9/11, c'mon 13 years ago, a lunatic fringe group did a horrible thing, but now peoplehave so much hate. We don't hate Germans because of Hitler and Nazis but yet we hate Muslims because of al-Qaeda and Bin Laden?


Because Muslims cannot get over themselves and realize that Islam is nothing special, and that they and their beliefs do not deserve special treatment.
Hail Satan!
Happily married to Roan Cara, The first RL NS marriage, and Pope Joan is my Father-in-law.
I edit my posts to fix typos.

User avatar
Twilight Imperium
Minister
 
Posts: 2869
Founded: May 19, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Twilight Imperium » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:47 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Araksasya wrote:Just because of 9/11, c'mon 13 years ago, a lunatic fringe group did a horrible thing, but now peoplehave so much hate. We don't hate Germans because of Hitler and Nazis but yet we hate Muslims because of al-Qaeda and Bin Laden?


Because Muslims cannot get over themselves and realize that Islam is nothing special, and that they and their beliefs do not deserve special treatment.


People say the same thing about Christians, you know.

User avatar
Esalonia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1162
Founded: Aug 15, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Esalonia » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:49 am

Because Murica. Case closed.
Tech level: NS MT
Esalonian Factbook *does not use NS Stats anymore*
DEFCON: 1 2 3 4 [5]
Member of these Multilateral Organizations
Fortitudinem wrote:They're a budding power. Pun intended.

Marquesan wrote:You have a damned fine advanced understanding of interior and exterior ballistics for a fifteen year old.

Gim wrote:

You would be an excellent Filipino Super Junior member. :p

Facebook chat:
Sum frind: okay klng? (Are you okay?)
Me: Yes. I am definitely okay in a mental asylum
Sum frind: ?

A Proud Adherent to the Nordic Model

User avatar
Germanic Nordland
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 168
Founded: May 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Germanic Nordland » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:55 am

I'm going to explain this to you, pure and simple.

USA created Al Qaeda to fight Soviet.
USA liked Hussein, Bin Laden, ETC, etc.

In the end, the muslims didn't want to be American pawns (At least SOME muslims Saudi-Arabia is still a "US-state")
This led to Americans creating a "war on terrorism", which the west is dragged into.

And during ww2, and before, and after, germans were mistreated in a matter of speaking you cannot imagine. Muslims aren't treated as badly as you think, but your people are not allowed to "govern yourselfs" by the USA, as the USA aren't really fond of people ruling themselves UNLESS they accept Americans overlords.

And yes; It's of course a problem that muslims in the west have a hard time "changing"; and the mulicultural society "we" once dreamed about has been an utter failure. While muslims aren't really 100% at fault for this, they're judged for not adopting the new culture, while people from let's say, Eastern-Asia are brilliant at settling in.

Multi-culture makes people dislike muslims a bit. And US propaganda does the rest

User avatar
Vallermoore
Senator
 
Posts: 4791
Founded: Mar 27, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vallermoore » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:04 am

I don't hate all Muslims. I dislike the way some of them treat their women, and I dislike violent jihadis and their vids, which are giving governments an excuse to try and censor the Internet.

User avatar
The Seleucids (Ancient)
Diplomat
 
Posts: 989
Founded: Nov 03, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Seleucids (Ancient) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:13 am

Vallermoore wrote:I don't hate all Muslims. I dislike the way some of them treat their women, and I dislike violent jihadis and their vids, which are giving governments an excuse to try and censor the Internet.


Dislike Jihads? Why? Jihad can be spread in many many ways, its not about war. Jihad just means struggle, and it can even be a struggle in your own mind.
You should also know that a Jihad (in the means of war) can only be called upon in a defensive matter. Like the Jihad against the Soviets and later on the Americans. The Jihad of IS for example is not a Jihad according to Muslim rules.

User avatar
The Seleucids (Ancient)
Diplomat
 
Posts: 989
Founded: Nov 03, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Seleucids (Ancient) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:15 am

Eastern Denmark wrote:
The Union of the West wrote:Probably not even that much.


That's the percentage of Shiites so I guess it might be lower. Obviously some Shiites wouldn't interpret it that way but some Sunnis might.


You do realize that violence in the name of Islam is dominated by Sunni's right?

User avatar
The Seleucids (Ancient)
Diplomat
 
Posts: 989
Founded: Nov 03, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Seleucids (Ancient) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:18 am

The-South wrote:
The Union of the West wrote:The religion itself hasn't. However, some of it's more radical adherents have, but are they representative of their faith? Not in my opinion.


Its an underlying problem that the material in their "holy book" allows for them to promote violence.


This isn't really true if you know how one should read the Quran.
According to a large group of influential Muslims one is not allowed to pick a sentence out of the Quran without taking into account the rest of the Quran itself. Basicly those thatt promote this violence simply do not read the Quran in the way it should be read.

User avatar
Papait
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1302
Founded: Jun 11, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Papait » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:19 am

The Seleucids wrote:
Vallermoore wrote:I don't hate all Muslims. I dislike the way some of them treat their women, and I dislike violent jihadis and their vids, which are giving governments an excuse to try and censor the Internet.


Dislike Jihads? Why? Jihad can be spread in many many ways, its not about war. Jihad just means struggle, and it can even be a struggle in your own mind.
You should also know that a Jihad (in the means of war) can only be called upon in a defensive matter. Like the Jihad against the Soviets and later on the Americans. The Jihad of IS for example is not a Jihad according to Muslim rules.

most things about IS are not according to Muslim Rule.
Taking over churches, denying rights to Jews, Blowing up mosques, wanting to destroy the Kaaba, suicide bombings, beheading captives that converted, beheading Christians who did not commit a crime against Islam, using drugs, raping women they aren't married to and almost everything else about them.
Positive: EU, Catalan Independence, Scottish Independence, Brabant Autonomy, Hezbollah, Fatah, Iran, Lebanon, LGB-Rights, Religion, Secularism, Kemalism, Facism
Neutral: The rights of T's, UN, Hamas, Capitalism, Socialism, Assad
Negative: USA, Israel, India, Saudi Arabia, Abortion, Theocracy, Tenchnocracy, Nazism, Racism, IS

Embassy: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=294523

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alvecia, Ancientania, Ariddia, Ifreann, Kaumudeen, Likhinia, Omphalos, Shearoa, Tungstan

Advertisement

Remove ads