Transgender woman correctly buried as man?

[Esternial]

If she had a sex-change surgery, then she would have to be buried as a female.

If not, then the issue is less crystal clear, imo. Do we bury people according to their sex or gender?

Let's all stop right there.

You are falling for a fairly common tactic of transphobic activism.

What is a TERF?

You might be a TERF if…
TERFs aren’t really all that radical, anyway
Trans-exclusionary radical feminism: what exactly is it, and why does it hurt?
Ways in which TERFs are similar to other hate groups

If we can't tolerate it from feminism, can we do so from others?

Biological essentialism is harmful

It’s Time For People to Stop Using the Social Construct of “Biological Sex” to Defend Their Transmisogyny – Using debunked science as a scapegoat for transmisogyny? Don’t do that.
Sex is not a biological reality
Bilaterally Gynandromorphic Chickens, and Why I’m Not “Scientifically” Male
Intersex society of America: What is intersex?
The Intersex Roadshow – Intersex Genitalia Illustrated and Explained

Common misconceptions

Seven Transphobic Tropes Debunked

Scientific studies/resources

Why Male and Female are Not Enough, by Anne Fausto-Sterling
Medical historian, psychiatrist, and UCLA clinician Vernon Rosario, for example, notes that sex is “a polymorphic and multifactorial model” that must take into account dozens of genes, chromosomes and environmental factors. Even in orthodox biology, it seems, sex is no longer as simple as XX or XY.
The many non-XX-or-XY combinations of chromosomes
Fixing Sex: Intersex, Medical Authority, and Lived Experience
The two-sex system is a historically recent and culturally specific understanding of sex grounded in the Enlightenment.

This has thousands of implications. Why do people need to follow their birth gender designation as an excuse based on their genitals, if that is an imperfect measure according to plenty of evidence and the continued existence of important intersex and "trans/transgender"* minorities across societies?

What needs to change is society, not our bodies.

* Referring to non-Western genders as transgender follows our Eurocentric viewpoint of a discussion our society had that does not apply to others. Some societies don't take genders that are not male or female as non-normative, some have another stuff to designate for their children/babies, some do not designated nothing at all until after childhood. Bear this in mind, as people of non-Western genders and their allies might consider their labeling as trans, transgender or non-binary colonizing - I know for a fact Brazilian travestis do, for example.

Probably shouldn't have stopped right there and continue reading.

Either way, Nadkor already explained my error to me. Not sure what this is all about.

[Buse]

What? Gender indetity disorder=transsexualism.

"Evidence suggests that people who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not just due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics, the makeup of their brains, or prenatal exposure to hormones."
-The Wiki Page you just linked, plonker.

and? hemophilia is caused by genetics so it does not means that it is not a sickness.

Really, burrial and mourning, the whole process the Western World has devised around it, is a way to remember the deceased. We remember who this person was, what he or she stood for, what they meant to us. To her friends, to her surroundings, to everyone she met, she was a woman. She changed that. She changed her body, her legal status, everything necessary. She changed into a woman. Her family not agreeing with that has no bearing on this whatsoever. They disfigured her to look like a man again, to serve their wishes. Had she been born a woman, stayed a woman, and then stuck into a man's suit, how would we feel about that? We would be horrified. Yet, when someone changed his or her legal status during his or her life, suddenly, different rules apply?

he may be a good person that does not mean that his familn should play according to his disorder. it was for his best and because of his family love to be burried according to his real gender.

[Liriena]

"Evidence suggests that people who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not just due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics, the makeup of their brains, or prenatal exposure to hormones."
-The Wiki Page you just linked, plonker.

and? hemophilia is caused by genetics so it does not means that it is not a sickness.

Really, burrial and mourning, the whole process the Western World has devised around it, is a way to remember the deceased. We remember who this person was, what he or she stood for, what they meant to us. To her friends, to her surroundings, to everyone she met, she was a woman. She changed that. She changed her body, her legal status, everything necessary. She changed into a woman. Her family not agreeing with that has no bearing on this whatsoever. They disfigured her to look like a man again, to serve their wishes. Had she been born a woman, stayed a woman, and then stuck into a man's suit, how would we feel about that? We would be horrified. Yet, when someone changed his or her legal status during his or her life, suddenly, different rules apply?

he may be a good person that does not mean that his familn should play according to his disorder. it was for his best and because of his family love to be burried according to his real gender.

1. You do realize that accomodating to one's gender identity is the recommended course of treatment for gender dysphoria, right? So you going to such lengths to argue that being transgender is a disorder is rather pointless. Even if you are right, the standard course of treatment involves doing the exact thing you stubbornly insist on not doing, which is recognizing the transgender person's gender identity and accomodating their body and lifestyle to it.
2. Transgender identity is not a synonym for gender dysphoria. In other words, being transgender is not in itself a disorder.
3. Don't misgender transgender people. It's not only inaccurate, but also impolite.
4. Her "real" gender wasn't male. That's the whole point of being transgender.
5. Since when is "love" a synonym for "selfishly erasing a part of a deceased loved one's identity is politically disagreed with"?

[Skinia]

"Evidence suggests that people who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not just due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics, the makeup of their brains, or prenatal exposure to hormones."
-The Wiki Page you just linked, plonker.

and? hemophilia is caused by genetics so it does not means that it is not a sickness.

Really, burrial and mourning, the whole process the Western World has devised around it, is a way to remember the deceased. We remember who this person was, what he or she stood for, what they meant to us. To her friends, to her surroundings, to everyone she met, she was a woman. She changed that. She changed her body, her legal status, everything necessary. She changed into a woman. Her family not agreeing with that has no bearing on this whatsoever. They disfigured her to look like a man again, to serve their wishes. Had she been born a woman, stayed a woman, and then stuck into a man's suit, how would we feel about that? We would be horrified. Yet, when someone changed his or her legal status during his or her life, suddenly, different rules apply?

he may be a good person that does not mean that his familn should play according to his disorder. it was for his best and because of his family love to be burried according to his real gender.

Go peddle your fucking transphobia elsewhere, bigot.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

"Evidence suggests that people who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not just due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics, the makeup of their brains, or prenatal exposure to hormones."
-The Wiki Page you just linked, plonker.

and? hemophilia is caused by genetics so it does not means that it is not a sickness.

Really, burrial and mourning, the whole process the Western World has devised around it, is a way to remember the deceased. We remember who this person was, what he or she stood for, what they meant to us. To her friends, to her surroundings, to everyone she met, she was a woman. She changed that. She changed her body, her legal status, everything necessary. She changed into a woman. Her family not agreeing with that has no bearing on this whatsoever. They disfigured her to look like a man again, to serve their wishes. Had she been born a woman, stayed a woman, and then stuck into a man's suit, how would we feel about that? We would be horrified. Yet, when someone changed his or her legal status during his or her life, suddenly, different rules apply?

he may be a good person that does not mean that his familn should play according to his disorder. it was for his best and because of his family love to be burried according to his real gender.

It was her choice, not some sort of disorder. Her family should respect the choices she made. It's not just something inside her head. She changed her body for it, for one, and she made all the legal changes necessary. She was a woman, period. No matter how she was born.

[Liriena]

Trans woman = a woman designated male at birth

Trans man = a man designated female at birth

So in this case they buried a woman who already lived as a woman as a man because they held this transition as unnatural and disgraceful.

No, not always. It's more like:

Trans woman = a man designated male at birth but then decided to become a woman

Trans man = a woman designated female at birth but then decided to be a man

No. That's grossly inaccurate.

A transgender person doesn't "want" to be a certain gender. They identify as a certain gender. If transgender people "want" anything, it is that their bodies match their gender identity, and that their gender identity is recognized by their peers.

[Liriena]

I wish more people look you understand. Sadly, people still think that dead cells still need to be dressed as women.

Appealing to ridicule won't win you any points in this discussion, buddy.

If you don't think this is a matter worth discussing, you are free to go elsewhere.

[Liriena]

As I said, if it is natural, fine. But if it was done procedurally, it is not fine.

Why?

Come on, I want you to delve deeper into your appeal to nature.

[Esternial]

and? hemophilia is caused by genetics so it does not means that it is not a sickness.


he may be a good person that does not mean that his familn should play according to his disorder. it was for his best and because of his family love to be burried according to his real gender.

Go peddle your fucking transphobia elsewhere, bigot.

Okey, there's no point in insulting him. Maybe he is being a bigot, but maybe he just doesn't understand. It's possible for someone to be set in their views and be unable to grasp another line of thinking.

Maybe some patience would help to inform those that don't quite grasp it all, and maybe resorting to insults is not the path to take here.

[Firsthome]

I preferred the original OP. It required a bit of intelligence to parse and understand.

Yes, but over the years the mods have repeatedly made clear that NSG is not a place where even a basic level of intelligence is desirable.

Whoops.

Well. I failed

[Liriena]

Not ingrained psychology; simply ingrained idiocy.

Well, you've just dismissed an entire discipline. I think it's time for you to show your credentials, since you seem to think yourself fit to speak in such terms.

[Firsthome]

and? hemophilia is caused by genetics so it does not means that it is not a sickness.


he she may be a good person that does not mean that his familn should play according to hisher disorderLife. it was for hisher best and because of hisher family love to be burried according to hisher real gender.

Fixed

[Firsthome]

He is a man, play simple.
While he may have been a transgender, he is still a woman.
He went through life as a women, and thats great because he felt comfortable like that.
But now he's death, and if his family or somebody else didn't want to feel the shame for him being transgender they shouldn't, he should be happy that they let him be a woman in life in the first place

I'm done.

This fucking place is a cesspit. It's disgusting.

It's all well and good having a safe space where people can express their opinions and be protected by the rules. But this - with the active endorsement of the mods, who should be ashamed of themselves - makes this a decidedly unsafe space for many, many people who outside of here face endless abuse, violence, sexual assault, and persecution every single day.

Plenty of people exercise their "right" to do this. I'm exercising my right to leave and never come back.

Enjoy your shithole of a forum full of people spewing forth hateful malevolent bile - things that hurt people, things that kill people - and regularly and openly denigrating, belittling, and abusing women, gay people, trans people, and whatever else, all permitted and protected in the name of "free speech".

Move to Germany.

Hate speech is not allowed.

[Skinia]

Go peddle your fucking transphobia elsewhere, bigot.

Okey, there's no point in insulting him. Maybe he is being a bigot, but maybe he just doesn't understand. It's possible for someone to be set in their views and be unable to grasp another line of thinking.

Maybe some patience would help to inform those that don't quite grasp it all, and maybe resorting to insults is not the path to take here.

Good people are leaving this site due to hacks like this. He keeps repeating the same point again and again. He's a lost case and deserves to be called out on his stupid views.

[CTALNH]

I support LQBT rights and such but can anyone that has a firmer grasp on the subject explain to me what is the difference between transgender and transsexual?

[Esternial]

Okey, there's no point in insulting him. Maybe he is being a bigot, but maybe he just doesn't understand. It's possible for someone to be set in their views and be unable to grasp another line of thinking.

Maybe some patience would help to inform those that don't quite grasp it all, and maybe resorting to insults is not the path to take here.

Good people are leaving this site due to hacks like this. He keeps repeating the same point again and again. He's a lost case and deserves to be called out on his stupid views.

Won't solve a thing. Moderation allows it, so whether or not you get yourself warned in the process ultimately has no impact on his participation here.

Best to call him out using a less insulting phrasing so you aren't the one that gets booted out, since otherwise we'd be running short on sensible people here..

I support LQBT rights and such but can anyone that has a firmer grasp on the subject explain to me what is the difference between transgender and transsexual?

Nadkor explained it well, imo.

[Skinia]

I support LQBT rights and such but can anyone that has a firmer grasp on the subject explain to me what is the difference between transgender and transsexual?

Transsexual either is not a thing or it is a sexuality towards trans people. Transgender is a person with conflicting gender identity and biological sex, to my understanding.

Good people are leaving this site due to hacks like this. He keeps repeating the same point again and again. He's a lost case and deserves to be called out on his stupid views.

Won't solve a thing. Moderation allows it, so whether or not you get yourself warned in the process ultimately has no impact on his participation here.

Best to call him out using a less insulting phrasing so you aren't the one that gets booted out, since otherwise we'd be running short on sensible people here..

I have done nothing that's against the rules. I have called him on his transphobia. Not against the rules.

[Liriena]

I support LQBT rights and such but can anyone that has a firmer grasp on the subject explain to me what is the difference between transgender and transsexual?

Transgender is an umbrella term that comprises all gender identities that do not match a person's gender assigned at birth. A transsexual person is somebody who identifies as a sex different from their inborn one, and wishes to have a body that matches that. In other words, a transsexual woman, for instance, is the one who wants to be physically female in every possible way. A transgender woman, which is a broader term, may not necessarily want to possess all female sexual characteristics.

[Firsthome]

No. Learn to fucking read. Gen-der dys-pho-ri-a.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/apa-s ... -the-name/

Bullshit.

[CTALNH]

I support LQBT rights and such but can anyone that has a firmer grasp on the subject explain to me what is the difference between transgender and transsexual?

Transgender is an umbrella term that comprises all gender identities that do not match a person's gender assigned at birth. A transsexual person is somebody who identifies as a sex different from their inborn one, and wishes to have a body that matches that. In other words, a transsexual woman, for instance, is the one who wants to be physically female in every possible way. A transgender woman, which is a broader term, may not necessarily want to possess all female sexual characteristics.

Thank you that enlightened me enough to achieve nirvana....Or that was the pron I was watching.We may never know.

[Esternial]

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/apa-s ... -the-name/

Bullshit.

Buse, think for yourself. You're not a parrot.

[Firsthome]

Transgender is an umbrella term that comprises all gender identities that do not match a person's gender assigned at birth. A transsexual person is somebody who identifies as a sex different from their inborn one, and wishes to have a body that matches that. In other words, a transsexual woman, for instance, is the one who wants to be physically female in every possible way. A transgender woman, which is a broader term, may not necessarily want to possess all female sexual characteristics.

Thank you that enlightened me enough to achieve nirvana....Or that was the pron I was watching.We may never know.

Pr0nftw

[Skinia]

I support LQBT rights and such but can anyone that has a firmer grasp on the subject explain to me what is the difference between transgender and transsexual?

Transgender is an umbrella term that comprises all gender identities that do not match a person's gender assigned at birth. A transsexual person is somebody who identifies as a sex different from their inborn one, and wishes to have a body that matches that. In other words, a transsexual woman, for instance, is the one who wants to be physically female in every possible way. A transgender woman, which is a broader term, may not necessarily want to possess all female sexual characteristics.

Well. Now I'm embarrassed for realizing my understanding of trans people couldn't have been any more incorrect.

[Land of wisdom]

This wasn't a woman.

I wonder how you'd react if you saw how many suicide attempts attitudes like yours cause.

You do get that the terms "man" and "woman" are just arbitrary categorizations placed on certain organizations of matter, don't you? They don't actually mean anything; some human organisms have traits that fit the "male" category, some have traits that fit the "female" category, some have both and a few have neither. There's no reason these categorizations should mean anything significant (except maybe outside of a medical context), and there's no reason beyond bigotry that people's lives should be dictated for them based on the organization of the matter that is their genitals.
Furthermore, it's none of your business how a person dresses, what they does with their body, or how they choose to be buried. None whatsoever. The only times you have valid reason to make any judgement of them based on that is, again, in a medical context, or if you're planning on sleeping with them. Since you are presumably not a doctor and presumably never tried to sleep with this person, the fact that you still think a person's actions should be dictated by your lack of understanding of biology is because, like whoever buried this woman, you're a bigot.

Claps could you please take up a job as a human rights speaker.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Bullshit.

Buse, think for yourself. You're not a parrot.

Lovely bird, the Norwegian Buse is.