Transgender woman correctly buried as man?

[Kincoboh]

It absolutely disgusts me that trans folks are treated like the way they are in America today - and indeed in some of the comments here in this thread. Awhile back, in another of my nations, I made a thread regarding whether or not someone would date a trans person. That thread was just as... for lack of a better word, enlightening, as this one has been. Attitudes toward transgender people never cease to spur my consternation.

In the case of this person, it is too bad she did not die far away from her horrible family. I do not understand how someone can disrespect someone so completely and utterly as they did. Not only that, but it is a giant middle finger to the trans community as a whole. I just don't understand why people just don't let stuff be. It's not hurting you. Why on Earth would you care what someone else does to themselves?

She died 2500 mIles away from her family.

Well then. Touche.

[Ancient Humans]

This is starting to get out of hand really fast.

Just accept that this happened and move on.

I Apologize to the mods if this comes across as an infringement to any rules.

[Eleanor Ritas]

Reading the article, she had many friends (people who accepted her and loved her, her real family in a way) and it effected them. It also effects how we view trans people in our culture.



Again, my advocacy was not for the corpse in the literal sense, but for those who truly loved her and accepted her seeing the that her family, in death, made even her body into what they wanted in the end. Its good that she will never learn of that choice, yes, but it's still a shitty (not illegal, just shitty) choice for them to have made and there were living people, her friends, at the service who were effected. It wasn't petty to them or trans people.

Reasonable minds can differ.

But thank you for the edgey certainty of your response. I was starting to forget where I was.

Then her friends should have had a memorial service remembering who she was and what she meant to them. Or should have offered to bury the body themselvds. The family has the right to remember her as they choose to.

Based on what the article said, I looks like her friends would have loved to be able to do that. They weren't. It's sad the family chose to remember her as "they chose to" instead of for who she was.

And because that's how they think, imagine how they treated her in life. Imagine what she had to live with. That says something. It means something. It means something how we treat trans people.

I think people are misunderstanding me. Must be too much/not enough satire, but I think the point is being overlooked.

I'm not saying it should've been illegal what was done to her. I'm not saying anyone should file a lawsuit. I'm not saying we should redirect cancer research funding to making a working time machine so we can send back Arnold Schwarzenegger to handle this. ("Are you Funeral Director Eli Himmler-Silversteinberg?" "Yes." BLAM. "Okay. Only three more in da phone book.")

I'm saying it was shitty that her parents did this to her, and I think by letting them know we think they're shitty, it might make it easier for trans people to know that people will speak up when they're treated shitty.

[Ethel mermania]

Then her friends should have had a memorial service remembering who she was and what she meant to them. Or should have offered to bury the body themselvds. The family has the right to remember her as they choose to.

Based on what the article said, I looks like her friends would have loved to be able to do that. They weren't. It's sad the family chose to remember her as "they chose to" instead of for who she was.

And because that's how they think, imagine how they treated her in life. Imagine what she had to live with. That says something. It means something. It means something how we treat trans people.

I think people are misunderstanding me. Must be too much/not enough satire, but I think the point is being overlooked.

I'm not saying it should've been illegal what was done to her. I'm not saying anyone should file a lawsuit. I'm not saying we should redirect cancer research funding to making a working time machine so we can send back Arnold Schwarzenegger to handle this. ("Are you Funeral Director Eli Himmler-Silversteinberg?" "Yes." BLAM. "Okay. Only three more in da phone book.")

I'm saying it was shitty that her parents did this to her, and I think by letting them know we think they're shitty, it might make it easier for trans people to know that people will speak up when they're treated shitty.

and I am not saying what they did is right, but it's what they needed to do for closure. TheI child died, paying to bring the body home and burying her are not trivial expenses. they must have loved her in their own way. I'm not going to pound them for making sure she had a proper burial and dealing with it in a way they can. She may have been a grown up woman, but at one time she was their sweet little boy. No parent should ever have to bury a child.

[Fartsniffage]

Based on what the article said, I looks like her friends would have loved to be able to do that. They weren't. It's sad the family chose to remember her as "they chose to" instead of for who she was.

And because that's how they think, imagine how they treated her in life. Imagine what she had to live with. That says something. It means something. It means something how we treat trans people.

I think people are misunderstanding me. Must be too much/not enough satire, but I think the point is being overlooked.

I'm not saying it should've been illegal what was done to her. I'm not saying anyone should file a lawsuit. I'm not saying we should redirect cancer research funding to making a working time machine so we can send back Arnold Schwarzenegger to handle this. ("Are you Funeral Director Eli Himmler-Silversteinberg?" "Yes." BLAM. "Okay. Only three more in da phone book.")

I'm saying it was shitty that her parents did this to her, and I think by letting them know we think they're shitty, it might make it easier for trans people to know that people will speak up when they're treated shitty.

and I am not saying what they did is right, but it's what they needed to do for closure. TheI child died, paying to bring the body home and burying her are not trivial expenses. they must have loved her in their own way. I'm not going to pound them for making sure she had a proper burial and dealing with it in a way they can. She may have been a grown up woman, but at one time she was their sweet little boy. No parent should ever have to bury a child.

The problem is, behaviours and attitudes such as those shown by the family are contributing to more parents having to bury their children.

[Eleanor Ritas]

and I am not saying what they did is right, but it's what they needed to do for closure. TheI child died, paying to bring the body home and burying her are not trivial expenses. they must have loved her in their own way. I'm not going to pound them for making sure she had a proper burial and dealing with it in a way they can. She may have been a grown up woman, but at one time she was their sweet little boy. No parent should ever have to bury a child.

The problem is, behaviours and attitudes such as those shown by the family are contributing to more parents having to bury their children.

Bingo.

And would she have considered her burial proper? Because for my closure, I'd want to do what my child would have wanted. Otherwise it's not closure, it's close minded.

You know Ethel, when I told you I loved you when you made your "If I were a Jewish Parent" (unless it was a completely different poster and I'm confusing you with someone and I'm sorry), I thought it was funny because I thought you were making a John Stewart style satirical Jew joke. I thought you were making a joke about stereotypical greed.

That's what your focus on the fiscals of this make it look like.

But how about this: If the friends had offered to pay all the expenses, should the parents have allowed them to do so and bury her as a woman? (I'm not asking legally, I'm asking shitty/not shitty).

[Grenartia]

Well from my perspective its simple really. The corpse does not care. Not any more. Corpses don't have feelings. So the ceremony of burial is something that obviously exists solely for the benefit of the people still alive. Thus what ever they want to do that makes them feel better about their loss is perfectly fine by me.

1. I wish more people look you understand. Sadly, people still think that dead cells still need to be dressed as women.

All loving people who truly wished to honour someone they cared about who had died... by insulting their memory and rewriting their existence, and how they had been living. Champs. Me? Someone I care about who died? I'd want to make sure they went into the ground in a way they'd be happy with, if they were capable of knowing. Otherwise I'd be showing myself as both selfish, and a rather poor example of a decent human being.

But since you're so willing to write off a persons ingrained psychology, I trust you'd be equally ok with the people ignoring a persons religious conversion. Or a cultural one. Or a.... you know, the things someone chooses. Bury a guy who converted from Islam to Christianity as a Muslim. You're Atheists, but your son in late stages of dementia is a Catholic? Well, no need to call anyone to perform last rites, and we'll not have a religious funeral. Or vice versa - one's Atheist son didn't want anything religious involved, but we'll ignore their wishes and not respect them and ensure they get buried in a full Catholic funeral.

Yeah, good people.

2. Not ingrained psychology; simply ingrained idiocy. Your nucleotides, nucleic acids, and other chromatic productions dictate your sex.

1. Its called respect for the memory of the deceased, dammit.

2. Sex, however, is not gender. And gender is all that matters in purely social interactions.

If they wanted to be a Man and where buried as a Man then let it be, It was what they wanted and the people around them respected the deceased to Refer to them as a He.

To bury a Woman as a Woman when they felt they where supposed to live life as a Man would be Disgraceful.

Did you read the OP? This was a woman who others insisted (and still insist) be considered a man, despite the woman's wishes.

And what about Compete AIS? Where someone who's chromosomally male develops as a female due to the inability of their cells to respond to Androgens during gestation and later life?

As I said, if it is natural, fine. But if it was done procedurally, it is not fine.

As somebody who wants "it done procedurally", why the fuck is it "not fine"?

I am conflicted. On one hand, the person is dead.
On the other, she lived a life of designated femininity.
I can only say that she does deserve to be remembered as the woman that she identified herself as, and lived her everyday life to be.
1. However, the dead still don't complain. 2. Why do we even have to be buried?

1. And what does that matter to respecting their memory?

2. Are you honestly fucking asking that? Do you realize what happens when you leave dead people's bodies out in the open? You might as well be asking why you can't shit and piss in the kitchen of a restaurant.

Didn't the person legally change their gender though?

I've never had a single government form ask my gender in the first place, so there really is no way to legally change it

You must not live in America, then.

He is a man, play simple.
While he may have been a transgender, he is still a woman.
He went through life as a women, and thats great because he felt comfortable like that.
But now he's death, and if his family or somebody else didn't want to feel the shame for him being transgender they shouldn't, he should be happy that they let him be a woman in life in the first place

1. Learn to English.
2. Learn to respect the memory of the deceased. This means referring to them by the proper (i.e., their preferred) pronouns, and referring to them as the proper gender (i.e., the one they identify as). Otherwise, you're doing little more than whitewashing history.
3. I don't know where the fuck you're getting the stupid idea that an individual's happiness should be enslaved to the whims and desires of others.

I'm done.

This fucking place is a cesspit. It's disgusting.

It's all well and good having a safe space where people can express their opinions and be protected by the rules. But this - with the active endorsement of the mods, who should be ashamed of themselves - makes this a decidedly unsafe space for many, many people who outside of here face endless abuse, violence, sexual assault, and persecution every single day.

Plenty of people exercise their "right" to do this. I'm exercising my right to leave and never come back.

Enjoy your shithole of a forum full of people spewing forth hateful malevolent bile - things that hurt people, things that kill people - and regularly and openly denigrating, belittling, and abusing women, gay people, trans people, and whatever else, all permitted and protected in the name of "free speech".

Never a truer word spoken.

Rather than devoting their attention to picking up on trans people snapping back after provocation on an epic scale, moderators should put something more than a nominal effort into addressing the real offences going on in this thread and others. I would hope that they have at least some interest as long-time posters in this being a forum to be proud of, but we've had this exact same bloody issue far too many times without any real lessons being learned for me to retain much faith at this stage.

Prove me wrong, please.

I wholeheartedly fucking agree.

There is nothing about to discuss here. Everything was alright.

My, grandma, what utter bullshit you can spew!

clearly there is since we have so many pages

1. From what I saw the usuall players are posting text whit esenitally the same message how the LGBTers are supposdly oppresed. 2. The man is born as a man so there is no controversy about his buring.

1. "Supposedly"? We have fucking proof.

2. No. Sex is not gender. Gender is a matter of identity. She was buried in a manner utterly disrespectful to how she lived her life. Fuck your "no controversy" bullshit. The Earth ain't flat, hun.

except there is because it almost definitely goes against what the person themselves would have wanted and the only argument against can be easily applied to all sorts of shit. if it doesn't matter what happens when they die, why not harvest them for parts? why not just destroy all the graveyards and make space?

Look, is some shizophrenics thinks he is a dog and wants to be burried in a dog semitery that does not mean that does not mean that people should not burry him in a human graveyard despite what the dead have wanted. The same applies for this man.

I dont see the second question in any connection with this case.

Ah, the classic dogtoaster fallacy.

Species is a matter of biology, not identity. Gender is a matter of identity, not biology.

2+2=/=5.

show me a study showing a human with a brain closer to that of a dog than that of a human, analogous to studies showing the brains of female to male people having parts of their brain that more closely resemble what would be expected in a male than than female and vice versa for male to female and give me a few cases of humans being born in such a state it is hard to tell whether they are human or canine, again analogous to the countless cases of fuckups we see related to sex in the human body, and i will consider pretending that what you actually said was a valid point.

I dont have to as transgenderenism is classified as a mental illness in most countries in the world. So, we dont have to fullfy all wishes of a sick person.

And? Most countries are fucking wrong, in the same way they'd be wrong if their geographical/geological bodies said the Earth was flat.

Merely identifying as a gender other than the one typically associated with your biological sex does not mean you have a mental disorder, because it does not inherently fit the definition of a mental disorder. lrn2basicpsychology.

Fuck you. It's called gender dysphoria. That's the illness. Being transgender is not. Fucking get it right, people.

What? Gender indetity disorder=transsexualism.

Only in a world where 2+2=5.

What? Gender indetity disorder=transsexualism.

"Evidence suggests that people who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not just due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics, the makeup of their brains, or prenatal exposure to hormones."
-The Wiki Page you just linked, plonker.

Really, burrial and mourning, the whole process the Western World has devised around it, is a way to remember the deceased. We remember who this person was, what he or she stood for, what they meant to us. To her friends, to her surroundings, to everyone she met, she was a woman. She changed that. She changed her body, her legal status, everything necessary. She changed into a woman. Her family not agreeing with that has no bearing on this whatsoever. They disfigured her to look like a man again, to serve their wishes. Had she been born a woman, stayed a woman, and then stuck into a man's suit, how would we feel about that? We would be horrified. Yet, when someone changed his or her legal status during his or her life, suddenly, different rules apply?

Finally, somebody who gets it.

What? Gender indetity disorder=transsexualism.

Oh, shut the fuck up.

The official classification of gender dysphoria as a disorder in the DSM-5 may help resolve some of these issues, because the term "gender dysphoria" applies only to the discontent experienced by some persons resulting from gender identity issues

Perhaps you should educate yourself.

Gender dysphoria refers specifically to the discontent and anxiety experienced by transgender people. Being transgender is not in and of itself a mental disorder, as your own sources have stated.
Don't abuse psychology like this. It deserves better.

LIBTURD CONSPIRACY!!!!eleven1

and? hemophilia is caused by genetics so it does not means that it is not a sickness.


he may be a good person that does not mean that his familn should play according to his disorder. it was for his best and because of his family love to be burried according to his real gender.

1. You do realize that accomodating to one's gender identity is the recommended course of treatment for gender dysphoria, right? So you going to such lengths to argue that being transgender is a disorder is rather pointless. Even if you are right, the standard course of treatment involves doing the exact thing you stubbornly insist on not doing, which is recognizing the transgender person's gender identity and accomodating their body and lifestyle to it.
2. Transgender identity is not a synonym for gender dysphoria. In other words, being transgender is not in itself a disorder.
3. Don't misgender transgender people. It's not only inaccurate, but also impolite.
4. Her "real" gender wasn't male. That's the whole point of being transgender.
5. Since when is "love" a synonym for "selfishly erasing a part of a deceased loved one's identity is politically disagreed with"?

Because "dumb trannys", probably.

Yeah, that's not what people who go to funerals think funerals are for.

It's what they are objectively. Everything else is rationalization.

Or at least not people who nitpick it's meaning.

It's to say goodbye to the dead person. It's as much for the dead person as it is for the dead person's loved ones.

And saying goodbye to the dead person is just a fancy way of saying "getting closure". As in, achieving an emotional separation and acceptance of the persons death. It's simply a coping mechanism for people to make them suffer less from the loss. Anything else is just a mixture of rationalization and tradition/religion added on to help with rationalizing.

Remember, reality does not care about what people believe or say they believe. Reality just is.

Even if you're right, it still doesn't justify blatantly disrespecting the deceased's memory, nor whitewashing crucial aspects of their life.

One can argue a funeral is for the living, and they can argue that the dead don't mind since they are, after all, dead.

However, how the funeral proceeds will affect all the living. If Klansmen burn a cart of deceased black men, the dead don't mind is not a viable defense. To misgender someone in death is to misgender every person in life. It is a desecration of not just the body but the late human's essence, deliberately in malice, ineffably unethical, and an ethereal revocation of individuality.

I think I love you.

@Eleanor Ritas

Yeah, the fact that she was buried incorrectly disgusts me. It's a clear breach of the sanctity of identity which we hold so dear.
Being trans* isn't a delusion any more than being gay is a mental disorder. That's the sort of thinking I'd expect from Rush Limbaugh
and similar proponents of hardline conservative, academi-phobic nutjobs. Get with the facts, people. Trans people deserve
to be treated as who they are, not what they look like. Christ.

I think we have a contender for next year's Best New Poster award.

It absolutely disgusts me that trans folks are treated like the way they are in America today - and indeed in some of the comments here in this thread. Awhile back, in another of my nations, I made a thread regarding whether or not someone would date a trans person. That thread was just as... for lack of a better word, enlightening, as this one has been. Attitudes toward transgender people never cease to spur my consternation.

In the case of this person, it is too bad she did not die far away from her horrible family. I do not understand how someone can disrespect someone so completely and utterly as they did. Not only that, but it is a giant middle finger to the trans community as a whole. I just don't understand why people just don't let stuff be. It's not hurting you. Why on Earth would you care what someone else does to themselves?

You were the OP for that thread? Shit, I feel for you.

That thread was a major clusterfuck, and you had nothing to do with it.

It absolutely disgusts me that trans folks are treated like the way they are in America today - and indeed in some of the comments here in this thread. Awhile back, in another of my nations, I made a thread regarding whether or not someone would date a trans person. That thread was just as... for lack of a better word, enlightening, as this one has been. Attitudes toward transgender people never cease to spur my consternation.

In the case of this person, it is too bad she did not die far away from her horrible family. I do not understand how someone can disrespect someone so completely and utterly as they did. Not only that, but it is a giant middle finger to the trans community as a whole. I just don't understand why people just don't let stuff be. It's not hurting you. Why on Earth would you care what someone else does to themselves?

She died 2500 mIles away from her family.

Still too close.

This is starting to get out of hand really fast.
(Image)
Just accept that this happened and move on.

I Apologize to the mods if this comes across as an infringement to any rules.

We can't move on until we get it through people's heads that what happened is shitty and should never be repeated. The quicker people get that message, the quicker we can all "move on".

Based on what the article said, I looks like her friends would have loved to be able to do that. They weren't. It's sad the family chose to remember her as "they chose to" instead of for who she was.

And because that's how they think, imagine how they treated her in life. Imagine what she had to live with. That says something. It means something. It means something how we treat trans people.

I think people are misunderstanding me. Must be too much/not enough satire, but I think the point is being overlooked.

I'm not saying it should've been illegal what was done to her. I'm not saying anyone should file a lawsuit. I'm not saying we should redirect cancer research funding to making a working time machine so we can send back Arnold Schwarzenegger to handle this. ("Are you Funeral Director Eli Himmler-Silversteinberg?" "Yes." BLAM. "Okay. Only three more in da phone book.")

I'm saying it was shitty that her parents did this to her, and I think by letting them know we think they're shitty, it might make it easier for trans people to know that people will speak up when they're treated shitty.

and I am not saying what they did is right, but it's what they needed to do for closure. TheI child died, paying to bring the body home and burying her are not trivial expenses. they must have loved her in their own way. I'm not going to pound them for making sure she had a proper burial and dealing with it in a way they can. She may have been a grown up woman, but at one time she was their sweet little boy. No parent should ever have to bury a child.

Perhaps they should try to get closure by acknowledging the truth, instead of trying to whitewash it.

and I am not saying what they did is right, but it's what they needed to do for closure. TheI child died, paying to bring the body home and burying her are not trivial expenses. they must have loved her in their own way. I'm not going to pound them for making sure she had a proper burial and dealing with it in a way they can. She may have been a grown up woman, but at one time she was their sweet little boy. No parent should ever have to bury a child.

The problem is, behaviours and attitudes such as those shown by the family are contributing to more parents having to bury their children.

Exactly. Shit like this only fuels the transphobia that makes too many burials of trans people necessary.

[Ethel mermania]

The problem is, behaviours and attitudes such as those shown by the family are contributing to more parents having to bury their children.

Bingo.

And would she have considered her burial proper? Because for my closure, I'd want to do what my child would have wanted. Otherwise it's not closure, it's close minded.

You know Ethel, when I told you I loved you when you made your "If I were a Jewish Parent" (unless it was a completely different poster and I'm confusing you with someone and I'm sorry), I thought it was funny because I thought you were making a John Stewart style satirical Jew joke. I thought you were making a joke about stereotypical greed.

That's what your focus on the fiscals of this make it look like.

But how about this: If the friends had offered to pay all the expenses, should the parents have allowed them to do so and bury her as a woman? (I'm not asking legally, I'm asking shitty/not shitty).

It was me, and I was being sincere. He marries a Christian and wants to be buried as such it becomes his and his wife's responsibility.

To answer your question, i think so, if they wanted to, particularly if she had specifically asked for it. Its hard to say for sure as we do not know the dynamic of the family. She moved to Miami which is a fairly safe place to be out, and I can't imagine Idaho would be.

Generally it's a fast decision, the morgue wants someone to claim the body. if she had a health care proxy, they would have been consulted. Do we know anything about how she died? If she was hit by a bus, there wouldn't be a lot of time, if she were ill, she should have been able to.

[Eleanor Ritas]

Bingo.

And would she have considered her burial proper? Because for my closure, I'd want to do what my child would have wanted. Otherwise it's not closure, it's close minded.

You know Ethel, when I told you I loved you when you made your "If I were a Jewish Parent" (unless it was a completely different poster and I'm confusing you with someone and I'm sorry), I thought it was funny because I thought you were making a John Stewart style satirical Jew joke. I thought you were making a joke about stereotypical greed.

That's what your focus on the fiscals of this make it look like.

But how about this: If the friends had offered to pay all the expenses, should the parents have allowed them to do so and bury her as a woman? (I'm not asking legally, I'm asking shitty/not shitty).

It was me, and I was being sincere. He marries a Christian and wants to be buried as such it becomes his and his wife's responsibility.

To answer your question, i think so, if they wanted to, particularly if she had specifically asked for it. Its hard to say for sure as we do not know the dynamic of the family. She moved to Miami which is a fairly safe place to be out, and I can't imagine Idaho would be.

Generally it's a fast decision, the morgue wants someone to claim the body. if she had a health care proxy, they would have been consulted. Do we know anything about how she died? If she was hit by a bus, there wouldn't be a lot of time, if she were ill, she should have been able to.

The link gives some information on that, aneurism at 32 I think, just went down and never woke up.

So, are there any living wills you could do on this if you wanted? Or could you list your next of kind or responsible party as a friend or agency that does that?

We should see if any of the posters on this board are lawyers in the US would want to do an offsite project website and/or agency that does that.

Do lawyers ever post on here? Is that Gallo guy one?

[Ethel mermania]

It was me, and I was being sincere. He marries a Christian and wants to be buried as such it becomes his and his wife's responsibility.

To answer your question, i think so, if they wanted to, particularly if she had specifically asked for it. Its hard to say for sure as we do not know the dynamic of the family. She moved to Miami which is a fairly safe place to be out, and I can't imagine Idaho would be.

Generally it's a fast decision, the morgue wants someone to claim the body. if she had a health care proxy, they would have been consulted. Do we know anything about how she died? If she was hit by a bus, there wouldn't be a lot of time, if she were ill, she should have been able to.

The link gives some information on that, aneurism at 32 I think, just went down and never woke up.

So, are there any living wills you could do on this if you wanted? Or could you list your next of kind or responsible party as a friend or agency that does that?

We should see if any of the posters on this board are lawyers in the US would want to do an offsite project website and/or agency that does that.

Do lawyers ever post on here? Is that Gallo guy one?

An aneurysm, the poor dear, at least it was quick. She would have had to have the proxy set up in advance, 32 year Olds don't think that way.

Greed is an attorney. Every state is different and yes something could be set up. But at 32? sad

Edit. She lived in Idaho. My bad. She did not leave her family.

[Eleanor Ritas]

The link gives some information on that, aneurism at 32 I think, just went down and never woke up.

So, are there any living wills you could do on this if you wanted? Or could you list your next of kind or responsible party as a friend or agency that does that?

We should see if any of the posters on this board are lawyers in the US would want to do an offsite project website and/or agency that does that.

Do lawyers ever post on here? Is that Gallo guy one?

An aneurysm, the poor dear, at least it was quick. She would have had to have the proxy set up in advance, 32 year Olds don't think that way.

Greed is an attorney. Every state is different and yes something could be set up. But at 32? sad

Edit. She lived in Idaho. My bad. She did not leave her family.

Oh well, never mind an attorney. But it would interesting to send an email to that site that was advocating for her and see if they've already put up an FAQ How-to for LGBT people to control their means of final rest.

[WestRedMaple]

I've never had a single government form ask my gender in the first place, so there really is no way to legally change it

You must not live in America, then.

Most of my life.

The fact is I've never had to fill out any government form which asked my gender, and I've had to fill out a lot of government forms

[Eleanor Ritas]

You must not live in America, then.

Most of my life.

The fact is I've never had to fill out any government form which asked my gender, and I've had to fill out a lot of government forms

Is this a Don Knotts style gender != sex joke?

[Downed Pilots]

OP lends itself to conflict. I don't mind the subject, but I think that the OP shouldn't be so decided in their opinion (in general; not just picking on this one). The OP is bringing in along all the facts in the debate and thus should have minimal bias as to promote productive debate.

But I do have to say that in a nation that clings to the word freedom for all it's worth would be so judgmental of people for their sexuality. Many want to have their guns not be monitored (not restricted, monitored. I'm talking about documentation so each gun can be tracked.) further, but absolutely oppose when there is a question about allowing someone to be different from us in their sexual identity. Sounds like a bit of a problem to me.

Sorry if the latter paragraph is off topic, and or offensive to some readers. Don't want to start a fire.

[WestRedMaple]

Most of my life.

The fact is I've never had to fill out any government form which asked my gender, and I've had to fill out a lot of government forms

Is this a Don Knotts style gender != sex joke?

It is a statement of reality. I've filled out forms for school, driving licenses, carry permits, airmen certificates, selective service, USCIS, census, taxes, military, voting, etc....none required gender, let alone defining a 'legal' gender

[Eleanor Ritas]

OP lends itself to conflict. I don't mind the subject, but I think that the OP shouldn't be so decided in their opinion (in general; not just picking on this one). The OP is bringing in along all the facts in the debate and thus should have minimal bias as to promote productive debate.

But I do have to say that in a nation that clings to the word freedom for all it's worth would be so judgmental of people for their sexuality. Many want to have their guns not be monitored (not restricted, monitored. I'm talking about documentation so each gun can be tracked.) further, but absolutely oppose when there is a question about allowing someone to be different from us in their sexual identity. Sounds like a bit of a problem to me.

Sorry if the latter paragraph is off topic, and or offensive to some readers. Don't want to start a fire.

Um, I really think it might be that the OP rules on the site in fact require that the OP give their own opinion, which I presented with sufficient evidence to be "decided" to the extent my decision are based on evidence examined with sound reason.

Moreover, I believe the OP guidelines urge one to take a side in the debate, and thus some amount of bias (and certainly no more than what I applied in accordance with a rudimentary examination of the site rules) is unavoidable, a priori.

But thank you for your thoughts.

[Eleanor Ritas]

Is this a Don Knotts style gender != sex joke?

It is a statement of reality. I've filled out forms for school, driving licenses, carry permits, airmen certificates, selective service, USCIS, census, taxes, military, voting, etc....none required gender, let alone defining a 'legal' gender

Did any of them ask for "sex"?

[Fartsniffage]

It is a statement of reality. I've filled out forms for school, driving licenses, carry permits, airmen certificates, selective service, USCIS, census, taxes, military, voting, etc....none required gender, let alone defining a 'legal' gender

Did any of them ask for "sex"?

Wouldn't that be a bit forward without the form buying dinner first?

[Grenartia]

Is this a Don Knotts style gender != sex joke?

It is a statement of reality. I've filled out forms for school, driving licenses, carry permits, airmen certificates, selective service, USCIS, census, taxes, military, voting, etc....none required gender, let alone defining a 'legal' gender

I've filled out much of the same forms, and yet, I distinctly remember being asked for it more than once.

[Eleanor Ritas]

Did any of them ask for "sex"?

Wouldn't that be a bit forward without the form buying dinner first?

The government is going to fuck you regardless of whether your'e fed. That's what the forms mean.

[Eleanor Ritas]

It is a statement of reality. I've filled out forms for school, driving licenses, carry permits, airmen certificates, selective service, USCIS, census, taxes, military, voting, etc....none required gender, let alone defining a 'legal' gender

I've filled out much of the same forms, and yet, I distinctly remember being asked for it more than once.

I'm now about 70% sure this is a "sex is not gender" schtick and we'll be at Wabbit Season Duck Season before the next page...

[Grenartia]

I've filled out much of the same forms, and yet, I distinctly remember being asked for it more than once.

I'm now about 70% sure this is a "sex is not gender" schtick and we'll be at Wabbit Season Duck Season before the next page...

Even though its entirely obvious that 90% of the time a government form asks you to put your "sex", they actually want your gender, which they insist is also your sex. To say nothing of the government documents that actually ask for "gender".

[The New World Oceania]

It absolutely disgusts me that trans folks are treated like the way they are in America today - and indeed in some of the comments here in this thread. Awhile back, in another of my nations, I made a thread regarding whether or not someone would date a trans person. That thread was just as... for lack of a better word, enlightening, as this one has been. Attitudes toward transgender people never cease to spur my consternation.

In the case of this person, it is too bad she did not die far away from her horrible family. I do not understand how someone can disrespect someone so completely and utterly as they did. Not only that, but it is a giant middle finger to the trans community as a whole. I just don't understand why people just don't let stuff be. It's not hurting you. Why on Earth would you care what someone else does to themselves?

She died 2500 mIles away from her family.

Transphobia knows no distances.

[The Rich Port]

It absolutely disgusts me that trans folks are treated like the way they are in America today - and indeed in some of the comments here in this thread. Awhile back, in another of my nations, I made a thread regarding whether or not someone would date a trans person. That thread was just as... for lack of a better word, enlightening, as this one has been. Attitudes toward transgender people never cease to spur my consternation.

In the case of this person, it is too bad she did not die far away from her horrible family. I do not understand how someone can disrespect someone so completely and utterly as they did. Not only that, but it is a giant middle finger to the trans community as a whole. I just don't understand why people just don't let stuff be. It's not hurting you. Why on Earth would you care what someone else does to themselves?

She died 2500 mIles away from her family.

Wait... So the people that buried her... Weren't her family?

[Transyl]

This is amazing in my point of view. He didn't feel right being a woman, so he changed into a man. And he should be accepted and treated as a man, he deserved this kind of a ceremonial burial.