10 Hours Walking Through NYC as a Woman: catcalling

[Keventle]

Or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5mmp-uwNNY

[Tubbsalot]

Again, go back to tumblr and spout this BS. It's not welcome here. "God bless you" is not a "hilarious one-liner". It's a greeting.

I don't mean "god bless you," I mean:

"Go back to tumblr and spout this BS, please. Oh, and watch the fucking video. Good day."

No, it's not. Usually, the link posted on these threads possess some informstion you should know about the topic at hand.

Yes, and I can guess what's in the video. I already know about the subject. I've talked about it before; it's not new to me. If there was a thread with an article about healthcare I wouldn't need to read that either. The chance of it saying something I didn't know would be a fraction of a percent, if it was from a general news site.

Look, I'll watch the video if you're that insistent that I have to. But I'm going to finish watching, and come back, and absolutely nothing will be different.

[Tubbsalot]

Holy fuck, I stand corrected. That changes everything. The guys saying "God bless you" were about fifty billion times creepier than I could possibly have imagined. How can you not realise how creepy that is? Jesus. Just talk to a woman for once. Show them this and ask whether they find that creepy.

It's unbelievable that there is even a debate here, if everyone has actually watched that.

[Upper America]

Holy fuck, I stand corrected. That changes everything. The guys saying "God bless you" were about fifty billion times creepier than I could possibly have imagined. How can you not realise how creepy that is? Jesus. Just talk to a woman for once. Show them this and ask whether they find that creepy.

It's unbelievable that there is even a debate here, if everyone has actually watched that.

Get out of here. I'm losing brain cells reading your posts.

[Keventle]

The person that did this is an unknown actress waiting for her breakthrough...

Their goal is to get seen in anyway shape or form.

[Upper America]

The person that did this is an unknown actress waiting for her breakthrough...

Their goal is to get seen in anyway shape or form.

And it seems like all the respectable ways of getting famous all failed.

[Vamtrl]

Or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5mmp-uwNNY

Hilarious.

[Keventle]

The person that did this is an unknown actress waiting for her breakthrough...

Their goal is to get seen in anyway shape or form.

And it seems like all the respectable ways of getting famous all failed.

Well yes. This video is only for her to get attention and blow the feminist movement out of proportion.

[Keventle]

Or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5mmp-uwNNY

Hilarious.

It's one of my favorites right now.

[Tubbsalot]

Get out of here. I'm losing brain cells reading your posts.

Look, that video could have been edited together from half a year of footage. We don't know, so it's worthless as a measure of how bad it is for a woman walking down the street. But let's be clear here: every single one of those clips was obviously, blatantly creepy. The first comment I get reads "These guys sure as hell would not be saying 'have a nice day' to a 45 year old mother of two." And that's absolutely true. The fact that there are so many people in this thread who've just shrugged their shoulders and said "well I don't see how this is creepy at all" is indicative of serious social issues.

It just blows my mind that you can see a guy staring at a woman, hear "god bless you, mami" - mami meaning sexy/baby, in case you weren't aware - and think "well that's clearly not sexual or creepy at all." That's a problem.

[Jetan]

I have mixed feelings about the video. She clearly looks uncomfortable throughout, and some of the comments, as well as one man even walking beside her for some time makes for uncomfortable viewing. However, mixed within actual cases of invasion of personal space and harassment are perfectly acceptable greetings, and everything about this video feels a little staged. They've purposely picked a rather voluptuous participant for this..demonstration? So what does that say about them?

Also, she had to walk around for ten hours through busy streets in New York, and this is the best of what they could get. Some instances are simply of people saying "hello" and "how are you" as she walked by. Come on, now. There's harassment, and there's over-reacting.

I'm not saying there wasn't some harassment in the video, but it's been muddled in with people politely saying hello, and the woman looks generally uncomfortable throughout. Seeing as they were looking for situations to use to point their point across, I think the video sends out some horribly mixed messages.

In short, the video does highlight some serious concerns, but by mixing that in with some instances which clearly aren't harassment, smacks of an attempt to stir controversy.

^This. So much this.

[Upper America]

Get out of here. I'm losing brain cells reading your posts.

Look, that video could have been edited together from half a year of footage. We don't know, so it's worthless as a measure of how bad it is for a woman walking down the street. But let's be clear here: every single one of those clips was obviously, blatantly creepy. The first comment I get reads "These guys sure as hell would not be saying 'have a nice day' to a 45 year old mother of two." And that's absolutely true. The fact that there are so many people in this thread who've just shrugged their shoulders and said "well I don't see how this is creepy at all" is indicative of serious social issues.

It just blows my mind that you can see a guy staring at a woman, hear "god bless you, mami" - mami meaning sexy/baby, in case you weren't aware - and think "well that's clearly not sexual or creepy at all." That's a problem.

That one was a little creepy. But one guy said that without the "mami" part added. And so what if they wouldn't say it to a mother of two? I guess flirting is bad. My bad. I'll remember to stay single my whole life so I don't "insult" a woman who may be dying for someone to talk to her. And like another video posted here says, many women would die for this kind of attention.

[Tubbsalot]

That one was a little creepy. But one guy said that without the "mami" part added. And so what if they wouldn't say it to a mother of two? I guess flirting is bad. My bad. I'll remember to stay single my whole life so I don't "insult" a woman who may be dying for someone to talk to her. And like another video posted here says, many women would die for this kind of attention.

I don't know what to tell you, guy. Do you have female friends? Seriously, show them this and ask them what they think.

I understand if you don't see how a lot of that is bad, and that's fair, it's not like you've experienced any of that, so you don't really have the context. But that is nowhere near acceptable.

[Upper America]

That one was a little creepy. But one guy said that without the "mami" part added. And so what if they wouldn't say it to a mother of two? I guess flirting is bad. My bad. I'll remember to stay single my whole life so I don't "insult" a woman who may be dying for someone to talk to her. And like another video posted here says, many women would die for this kind of attention.

I don't know what to tell you, guy. Do you have female friends? Seriously, show them this and ask them what they think.

I understand if you don't see how a lot of that is bad, and that's fair, it's not like you've experienced any of that, so you don't really have the context. But that is nowhere near acceptable.

Considering how one of my female friends is going to homecoming in a tight pink dress, I don't think she'll find simple compliments and greetings creepy. In fact, I don't think most of my female friends would mind. You must hang around a very conservative group.

[Tubbsalot]

Considering how one of my female friends is going to homecoming in a tight pink dress, I don't think she'll find simple compliments and greetings creepy.

Great! So you can show her that video in perfect confidence that she won't see any problem, and she'd love to get those comments, and then you can come back and tell me I was wrong. Show a few women, get some opinions.

edit: well, I guess I should clarify - women over 18. younger teenagers tend to have sort of fucked-up views on relationships and sex. i'm assuming you're not 14 or something.

[Blazedtown]

It's a courtesy to say "hello" or "good afternoon" or something like that when you pass people on the street. I do it all the time. If she sees that as harassment, her skin is way too thin.

It depends if it's done in a threatening or aggressive manner though. Yelling, or saying it with sexual undertones is very different from just saying hi in passing on the street.

How the fuck do you say good afternoon in a threatening way?

[Condunum]

That one was a little creepy. But one guy said that without the "mami" part added. And so what if they wouldn't say it to a mother of two? I guess flirting is bad. My bad. I'll remember to stay single my whole life so I don't "insult" a woman who may be dying for someone to talk to her. And like another video posted here says, many women would die for this kind of attention.

I don't know what to tell you, guy. Do you have female friends? Seriously, show them this and ask them what they think.

I understand if you don't see how a lot of that is bad, and that's fair, it's not like you've experienced any of that, so you don't really have the context. But that is nowhere near acceptable.

That's all worth recognizing, but I don't think it's worth anything past that. Comments like "hello" and "how is your day" should not be considered unacceptable. That they are considered unacceptable is, itself, unacceptable. And also a byproduct of a dangerous society.

[Condunum]

I don't know what to tell you, guy. Do you have female friends? Seriously, show them this and ask them what they think.

I understand if you don't see how a lot of that is bad, and that's fair, it's not like you've experienced any of that, so you don't really have the context. But that is nowhere near acceptable.

Considering how one of my female friends is going to homecoming in a tight pink dress, I don't think she'll find simple compliments and greetings creepy. In fact, I don't think most of my female friends would mind. You must hang around a very conservative group.

Homecoming dance and the streets of New York are two very, very different situations.

[Infected Mushroom]

So, I don't know if any of you have seen this video yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A

Basically, a woman recorded herself walking casually through NYC to show the street harassment they have to endure. Honestly, I always knew catcalling was a problem, but watching this video made me realise how scary it can be to be a lone woman, just walking through the street. She was repeatedly harassed, with one man silently following her for two minutes.

What are your thoughts on this, NSG? Are the catcalling just being friendly, or is it a problem of harassment?

My opinion:

I think that this is just frightening. I live around NYC, and as a male, I've never had to endure this level of harassment. I always knew it was a problem, but this showed me how huge of a problem it is. (I was walking with a female friend in the city one day, and about four men all walked behind her and said "DAMN! LOOK AT THAT!". Things like that aren't okay.) I think this proves that we are extremely far from gender equality. This woman wasn't even dressed provocatively or doing anything out of the ordinary, yet she was still harassed. (And if she was dressed more provocatively - that shouldn't matter. I don't believe in blaming the victim.) But it was shocking to see how she was repeatedly harassed, and how the men felt entitled to her. No woman should have to be repeatedly harassed on the street, have sexual remarks made towards her, and be silently stalked. She was catcalled 108 times in 10 hours.

This woman was obviously very uninterested in talking to people or showing any positive response to anyone. She was walking swiftly, not responding, and was looking ahead. However, she was continually harassed.

A lot of the remarks are sexual harassment. They're not just "compliments". Things like reading out the logo on the back of her pants or saying "hey sexy!" are definitely uncalled for. NYC was considering establishing'no catcalling' zones around schools, which I think is a good idea. While we can't really limit what people say on every street, obviously, protecting young girls from being sexually harassed around schools is definitely something we can do.

There also needs to be more education for people about why catcalling people isn't okay, and what it is. I think that there is a difference between being friendly (i.e. just saying hi or smiling is fine), but screaming "DAMN! THAT ASS!" to someone on the street isn't a compliment. It's just creepy.

catcallers should be arrested and jailed for causing the woman distress...

[Upper America]

Considering how one of my female friends is going to homecoming in a tight pink dress, I don't think she'll find simple compliments and greetings creepy.

Great! So you can show her that video in perfect confidence that she won't see any problem, and she'd love to get those comments, and then you can come back and tell me I was wrong. Show a few women, get some opinions.

edit: well, I guess I should clarify - women over 18. younger teenagers tend to have sort of fucked-up views on relationships and sex. i'm assuming you're not 14 or something.

I'm 15. Considering how conservative you are, I assume you're about 40.

Considering how one of my female friends is going to homecoming in a tight pink dress, I don't think she'll find simple compliments and greetings creepy. In fact, I don't think most of my female friends would mind. You must hang around a very conservative group.

Homecoming dance and the streets of New York are two very, very different situations.

A greeting is a greeting, no matter where you are. Calling someone beautiful in homecoming is no different than doing it in Manhattan.

[Tubbsalot]

I don't know what to tell you, guy. Do you have female friends? Seriously, show them this and ask them what they think.

I understand if you don't see how a lot of that is bad, and that's fair, it's not like you've experienced any of that, so you don't really have the context. But that is nowhere near acceptable.

That's all worth recognizing, but I don't think it's worth anything past that. Comments like "hello" and "how is your day" should not be considered unacceptable. That they are considered unacceptable is, itself, unacceptable. And also a byproduct of a dangerous society.

Well, I mean, it depends on the context. I'm not saying it should be illegal to greet someone, of course. But it's very possible to say "hello" or "how is your day" in an incredibly creepy or concerning way, and if that happens, people should at least be able to recognise that it was creepy instead of dismissing it just a polite greeting.

[Condunum]

That's all worth recognizing, but I don't think it's worth anything past that. Comments like "hello" and "how is your day" should not be considered unacceptable. That they are considered unacceptable is, itself, unacceptable. And also a byproduct of a dangerous society.

Well, I mean, it depends on the context. I'm not saying it should be illegal to greet someone, of course. But it's very possible to say "hello" or "how is your day" in an incredibly creepy or concerning way, and if that happens, people should at least be able to recognise that it was creepy instead of dismissing it just a polite greeting.

Fair enough.

Homecoming dance and the streets of New York are two very, very different situations.

A greeting is a greeting, no matter where you are. Calling someone beautiful in homecoming is no different than doing it in Manhattan.

It's incredibly different. Street harassment is objectifying and yes, it makes women uncomfortable when you do it. Stop doing it.

[Upper America]

So, I don't know if any of you have seen this video yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A

Basically, a woman recorded herself walking casually through NYC to show the street harassment they have to endure. Honestly, I always knew catcalling was a problem, but watching this video made me realise how scary it can be to be a lone woman, just walking through the street. She was repeatedly harassed, with one man silently following her for two minutes.

What are your thoughts on this, NSG? Are the catcalling just being friendly, or is it a problem of harassment?

My opinion:

I think that this is just frightening. I live around NYC, and as a male, I've never had to endure this level of harassment. I always knew it was a problem, but this showed me how huge of a problem it is. (I was walking with a female friend in the city one day, and about four men all walked behind her and said "DAMN! LOOK AT THAT!". Things like that aren't okay.) I think this proves that we are extremely far from gender equality. This woman wasn't even dressed provocatively or doing anything out of the ordinary, yet she was still harassed. (And if she was dressed more provocatively - that shouldn't matter. I don't believe in blaming the victim.) But it was shocking to see how she was repeatedly harassed, and how the men felt entitled to her. No woman should have to be repeatedly harassed on the street, have sexual remarks made towards her, and be silently stalked. She was catcalled 108 times in 10 hours.

This woman was obviously very uninterested in talking to people or showing any positive response to anyone. She was walking swiftly, not responding, and was looking ahead. However, she was continually harassed.

A lot of the remarks are sexual harassment. They're not just "compliments". Things like reading out the logo on the back of her pants or saying "hey sexy!" are definitely uncalled for. NYC was considering establishing'no catcalling' zones around schools, which I think is a good idea. While we can't really limit what people say on every street, obviously, protecting young girls from being sexually harassed around schools is definitely something we can do.

There also needs to be more education for people about why catcalling people isn't okay, and what it is. I think that there is a difference between being friendly (i.e. just saying hi or smiling is fine), but screaming "DAMN! THAT ASS!" to someone on the street isn't a compliment. It's just creepy.

catcallers should be arrested and jailed for causing the woman distress...

Way to drive the poor into more poverty. You see, most of the men shown are poorer minorities. They may have girlfriends or kids who rely on them. Jail these people, and you drive those people who need them into a worse situation. Besides, catcalling is all a matter of opinion. The morons behind this video think that saying hello is catcalling, while a sensible person thinks of "Show me your tits" as cat-calling.

[Upper America]

That's all worth recognizing, but I don't think it's worth anything past that. Comments like "hello" and "how is your day" should not be considered unacceptable. That they are considered unacceptable is, itself, unacceptable. And also a byproduct of a dangerous society.

Well, I mean, it depends on the context. I'm not saying it should be illegal to greet someone, of course. But it's very possible to say "hello" or "how is your day" in an incredibly creepy or concerning way, and if that happens, people should at least be able to recognise that it was creepy instead of dismissing it just a polite greeting.

And what makes you think they were trying to be creepy? The fact that they were minorities? Poor? Unattractive?

Well, I mean, it depends on the context. I'm not saying it should be illegal to greet someone, of course. But it's very possible to say "hello" or "how is your day" in an incredibly creepy or concerning way, and if that happens, people should at least be able to recognise that it was creepy instead of dismissing it just a polite greeting.

Fair enough.

A greeting is a greeting, no matter where you are. Calling someone beautiful in homecoming is no different than doing it in Manhattan.

It's incredibly different. Street harassment is objectifying and yes, it makes women uncomfortable when you do it. Stop doing it.

For the last fucking time, complimenting someone is not objectifying in most cases.

[Infected Mushroom]

catcallers should be arrested and jailed for causing the woman distress...

Way to drive the poor into more poverty. You see, most of the men shown are poorer minorities. They may have girlfriends or kids who rely on them. Jail these people, and you drive those people who need them into a worse situation. Besides, catcalling is all a matter of opinion. The morons behind this video think that saying hello is catcalling, while a sensible person thinks of "Show me your tits" as cat-calling.

They are not being arrested for being poor or for being members of an ethnic minority. They are being arrested for catcalling, from their own decision to disrespect, insult, and potentially cause psychological harm to women.

We don't let people go free when they have done things that are wrong just because they come from a minority.