10 Hours Walking Through NYC as a Woman: catcalling

[Atlanticatia]

So, I don't know if any of you have seen this video yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A

Basically, a woman recorded herself walking casually through NYC to show the street harassment they have to endure. Honestly, I always knew catcalling was a problem, but watching this video made me realise how scary it can be to be a lone woman, just walking through the street. She was repeatedly harassed, with one man silently following her for two minutes.

What are your thoughts on this, NSG? Are the catcalling just being friendly, or is it a problem of harassment?

My opinion:

I think that this is just frightening. I live around NYC, and as a male, I've never had to endure this level of harassment. I always knew it was a problem, but this showed me how huge of a problem it is. (I was walking with a female friend in the city one day, and about four men all walked behind her and said "DAMN! LOOK AT THAT!". Things like that aren't okay.) I think this proves that we are extremely far from gender equality. This woman wasn't even dressed provocatively or doing anything out of the ordinary, yet she was still harassed. (And if she was dressed more provocatively - that shouldn't matter. I don't believe in blaming the victim.) But it was shocking to see how she was repeatedly harassed, and how the men felt entitled to her. No woman should have to be repeatedly harassed on the street, have sexual remarks made towards her, and be silently stalked. She was catcalled 108 times in 10 hours.

This woman was obviously very uninterested in talking to people or showing any positive response to anyone. She was walking swiftly, not responding, and was looking ahead. However, she was continually harassed.

A lot of the remarks are sexual harassment. They're not just "compliments". Things like reading out the logo on the back of her pants or saying "hey sexy!" are definitely uncalled for. NYC was considering establishing'no catcalling' zones around schools, which I think is a good idea. While we can't really limit what people say on every street, obviously, protecting young girls from being sexually harassed around schools is definitely something we can do.

There also needs to be more education for people about why catcalling people isn't okay, and what it is. I think that there is a difference between being friendly (i.e. just saying hi or smiling is fine), but screaming "DAMN! THAT ASS!" to someone on the street isn't a compliment. It's just creepy.

[Adiedren]

It's just pure harrasment. You don't walk up to a man and just give him compliments. It's creepy. It's not pleasant. You shouldn't do it to a woman either. And the guy who followed should learn when he has no chance. If a girl was interested or open, she would show it someway or another. And i'm sure she wouldn't just go out with random strangers. The catcalling is completly harrasment

[Cetacea]

She walked for 10 hours and got a couple of minites of footage, a lot of it saying good morning - what happened in the other 9 hours?

Im not saying harrassment doesnt happen, cat calling is uncalled for and is straight harrassment.
I dont know about people in NYC, but where I come from people say hello when you walk pass on the street, the polite thing is to at least smile in acknowledgement. Walking straight ahead without even looking sideways is rude possibly suspicious.

And in deference to the guy walking alongside her, he did nothing but walk, may be he was going that way too...

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I've been reading something similar but from India. There it's called Eve teasing. It's horrid. It ranges from catcalling to severe sexual harassment with groping and its, apparently, a huge problem related to youth delinquency.

It's penalized in India under Section 294 of the Indian Penal Code.

[Lordieth]

I have mixed feelings about the video. She clearly looks uncomfortable throughout, and some of the comments, as well as one man even walking beside her for some time makes for uncomfortable viewing. However, mixed within actual cases of invasion of personal space and harassment are perfectly acceptable greetings, and everything about this video feels a little staged. They've purposely picked a rather voluptuous participant for this..demonstration? So what does that say about them?

Also, she had to walk around for ten hours through busy streets in New York, and this is the best of what they could get. Some instances are simply of people saying "hello" and "how are you" as she walked by. Come on, now. There's harassment, and there's over-reacting.

I'm not saying there wasn't some harassment in the video, but it's been muddled in with people politely saying hello, and the woman looks generally uncomfortable throughout. Seeing as they were looking for situations to use to point their point across, I think the video sends out some horribly mixed messages.

In short, the video does highlight some serious concerns, but by mixing that in with some instances which clearly aren't harassment, smacks of an attempt to stir controversy.

[Kelinfort]

Complete and total harassment. This should never be tolerated.

[Atlanticatia]

She walked for 10 hours and got a couple of minites of footage, a lot of it saying good morning - what happened in the other 9 hours?

Im not saying harrassment doesnt happen, cat calling is uncalled for and is straight harrassment.
I dont know about people in NYC, but where I come from people say hello when you walk pass on the street, the polite thing is to at least smile in acknowledgement. Walking straight ahead without even looking sideways is rude possibly suspicious.

And in deference to the guy walking alongside her, he did nothing but walk, may be he was going that way too...

It's a lot different when you're in a city environment and people are constantly yelling sexual remarks to you. Saying hi and smiling is much different from saying "DAMN! THAT ASS!" to someone. Especially when they are obviously uninterested and not showing any signs that they would be.

[Lordieth]

Complete and total harassment. This should never be tolerated.

0.35 seconds in, man says "How are you this morning?"

Is this harassment? There's a lot of harassment in this video, I don't contest that, but the makers of this video have a somewhat confused interpretation of what constitutes harassment if simply greeting someone should be considered harassment.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Complete and total harassment. This should never be tolerated.

0.35 seconds in, man says "How are you this morning?"

Is this harassment?

Depends, really. Was it a polite greeting or was there body language indicating lewdness or obscene gestures? If it was merely a polite greeting, then no, that's not harassment. But if the body language was vulgar, then yes.

[The Ham Social Union]

Ive seen this before, watched it the other day. Some of it, the sexual oriented stuff is obviously harassment, but some of it is just compliments and basic greetings and such like "How are your this morning" "Hello" etc though there was a slight lean to sexual/appearance based shoutouts so i will admit that.

So about 60/40 in my eyes though i can understand how it would unnerve some women and make the uncomfortable (and men who experience it as well)

[Atlanticatia]

0.35 seconds in, man says "How are you this morning?"

Is this harassment?

Depends, really. Was it a polite greeting or was there body language indicating lewdness or obscene gestures? If it was merely a polite greeting, then no, that's not harassment. But if the body language was vulgar, then yes.

Also, the majority of comments were things like "sexy!" "damn!" "god bless you sexy!" - a minority were more friendly comments.

[Lordieth]

0.35 seconds in, man says "How are you this morning?"

Is this harassment?

Depends, really. Was it a polite greeting or was there body language indicating lewdness or obscene gestures? If it was merely a polite greeting, then no, that's not harassment. But if the body language was vulgar, then yes.

It was a man sitting down, who said "How are you this morning?" as she walked by. He didn't appear to do anything, and seeing as his face is blurred, it's difficult to make any judgement on his body language, but he was sitting still and didn't appear to be lewd or obscene.

I'm not making light of sexual harassment, but at the same time I think we must be critical of the video in its entirety as well as the motives of the makers of said video. It highlights some serious issues, but the video has some flaws.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Depends, really. Was it a polite greeting or was there body language indicating lewdness or obscene gestures? If it was merely a polite greeting, then no, that's not harassment. But if the body language was vulgar, then yes.

Also, the majority of comments were things like "sexy!" "damn!" "god bless you sexy!" - a minority were more friendly comments.

Those comments can be considered harassment, but maybe not the rest if they were just polite comments. "Good morning" and "God bless you sexy" are very different, in tone and in context.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Depends, really. Was it a polite greeting or was there body language indicating lewdness or obscene gestures? If it was merely a polite greeting, then no, that's not harassment. But if the body language was vulgar, then yes.

It was a man sitting down, who said "How are you this morning?" as she walked by. He didn't appear to do anything, and seeing as his face is blurred, it's difficult to make any judgement on his body language, but he was sitting still and didn't appear to be lewd or obscene.

I'm not making light of sexual harassment, but at the same time I think we must be critical of the video in its entirety as well as the motives of the makers of said video. It highlights some serious issues, but the video has some flaws.

I understand your point, and its something that's been pointed out by others. What's more, I agree. I'm just clarifying what I'd consider harassment to be in this case. Good morning isn't one of those, unless it was done in a vulgar manner with groping or other gestures.

[Lordieth]

Depends, really. Was it a polite greeting or was there body language indicating lewdness or obscene gestures? If it was merely a polite greeting, then no, that's not harassment. But if the body language was vulgar, then yes.

Also, the majority of comments were things like "sexy!" "damn!" "god bless you sexy!" - a minority were more friendly comments.

The majority were, I agree, but the others that are questionable do smack of barrel-scraping. How many men did she have to walk past in 10 hours to get this handful of responses? As horrible as these are, and they are horrible, this does paint a biased view. The way the video is put together makes it appear each incident took place close together, when it took them 10 hours to get this footage. I know the title informs us of this, but the seamless style of editing, without any sort of clock or indication of time between incidents, shows the makers of the video were aiming to tell a specific narrative.

[Lordieth]

It was a man sitting down, who said "How are you this morning?" as she walked by. He didn't appear to do anything, and seeing as his face is blurred, it's difficult to make any judgement on his body language, but he was sitting still and didn't appear to be lewd or obscene.

I'm not making light of sexual harassment, but at the same time I think we must be critical of the video in its entirety as well as the motives of the makers of said video. It highlights some serious issues, but the video has some flaws.

I understand your point, and its something that's been pointed out by others. What's more, I agree. I'm just clarifying what I'd consider harassment to be in this case. Good morning isn't one of those, unless it was done in a vulgar manner with groping or other gestures.

A male youtuber did his own version. I don't think it's the same thing. For many reasons, but you can see he was trying to make the same point. Make people question what is/isn't acceptable for people to say to you or act towards you in the street.

[Cetacea]

Depends, really. Was it a polite greeting or was there body language indicating lewdness or obscene gestures? If it was merely a polite greeting, then no, that's not harassment. But if the body language was vulgar, then yes.

Also, the majority of comments were things like "sexy!" "damn!" "god bless you sexy!" - a minority were more friendly comments.

I just did a count there are 21 incidents of harrasment (including things like hello sweetie) and 20 incidents of simple greetings (3 of these did demand response so were borderline).

Also the guy walking alongside her offering his phone number was only counted once.

So yeah 21 vs 20 is a bit over 51% hardly a majority even 17 vs 24 only gives 58%

[Atlanticatia]

I think it also comes down to the fact that even if some were friendly comments, men aren't getting them. When I walk around Manhattan or Brooklyn, as a male, I've almost never received a harassing comment from another person. If you stop into a cafe or something, you might exchange hellos with the person in front of you in a line, but it's not expected to do anything beyond a smile or small hello on the street, if at all. I'd be pretty creeped out if someone screamed something at me, when I'm trying to get somewhere, not looking at people. It's also very different if someone is calling something out (i.e. catcalling) and just mentioning "hi" in passing. And you might get some weird things from an obviously mentally ill homeless man. Of course, I've never heard anything that could be considered sexual or with a sexual undertone.

However, women have to experience this constantly, everyday. Whenever I'm walking with a female friend, the situation changes completely: at least one or two people will always yell something out at her. The important thing to notice is that it only happens to women, but very rarely to men. Obviously, there are exceptions, but it's a constant problem for every woman.

I'm not saying that men can't experience catcalling, but it's experienced all the time by women. Anyone who lives in NYC and is or knows a woman will agree.

[Lordieth]

Also, the majority of comments were things like "sexy!" "damn!" "god bless you sexy!" - a minority were more friendly comments.

I just did a count there are 20 incidents of harrasment (including things like hello sweetie) and 21 incidents of simple greetings (3 of these did demand response so were borderline).

I also the guy walking alongside her offering his phone number was only counted once.

So yeah 21 vs 20 is a bit over 51% hardly a majority even 17 vs 24 only gives 58%

That's interesting. Roughly I'd have put the incidents of harassment a bit higher, but again this is part of the problem. Some of them are very clear cut, and I think most of us can agree on those. A good proportion are open to interpretation, with a small few being clearly not harassment. Does a man who simply says hello as you walk by deserve to be vilified and treated the same as someone making lewd or suggestive comments and invading your personal space? I think that's a terrible message to send out.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I think it also comes down to the fact that even if some were friendly comments, men aren't getting them. When I walk around Manhattan or Brooklyn, as a male, I've never, ever received a comment such as from another person. If you stop into a cafe or something, you might exchange hellos with the person in front of you in a line, but it's not expected to do anything beyond a smile on the street, if at all. I'd be pretty creeped out if someone screamed something at me, when I'm trying to get somewhere, not looking at people. It's also very different if someone is calling something out (i.e. catcalling) and just mentioning "hi" in passing. And, of course, I've never heard anything that could be considered sexual or with a sexual undertone.

However, women have to experience this constantly, everyday. Whenever I'm walking with a female friend, the situation changes completely: at least one or two people will always yell something out at her. The important thing to notice is that it only happens to women, but very rarely to men. Obviously, there are exceptions, but it's a constant problem for every woman.

I see this often down here, but I live in the South, and in a small town. Greeting people, male or female, is part of the etiquette and expected.

[Zairoon]

Ive seen this before, watched it the other day. Some of it, the sexual oriented stuff is obviously harassment, but some of it is just compliments and basic greetings and such like "How are your this morning" "Hello" etc though there was a slight lean to sexual/appearance based shoutouts so i will admit that.

So about 60/40 in my eyes though i can understand how it would unnerve some women and make the uncomfortable (and men who experience it as well)

Yeah, most of those compliments wouldn't have been given to a man (or to a less attractive woman), but that doesn't make them harassment. C'mon, just ignore people who do this if you don't like it and enjoy being attractive.

EDIT: OK, I just watched the full video... that guy walking besides her for 2 minutes was kind of creepy, but hey, it's the city, there's loads of creeps.
But I just saw they're taking DONATIONS? What the fucking fuck?!

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Ive seen this before, watched it the other day. Some of it, the sexual oriented stuff is obviously harassment, but some of it is just compliments and basic greetings and such like "How are your this morning" "Hello" etc though there was a slight lean to sexual/appearance based shoutouts so i will admit that.

So about 60/40 in my eyes though i can understand how it would unnerve some women and make the uncomfortable (and men who experience it as well)

Yeah, most of those compliments wouldn't have been given to a man (or to a less attractive woman), but that doesn't make them harassment. C'mon, just ignore people who do this if you don't like it and enjoy being attractive.

That's not the solution, however. Some people prefer not to be harassed when they go out. And some of these "compliments" can feel more like harassment than anything else depending on how they're said and what body language accompanies them. It's not as easy as ignoring. Nope.

[Lordieth]

Ive seen this before, watched it the other day. Some of it, the sexual oriented stuff is obviously harassment, but some of it is just compliments and basic greetings and such like "How are your this morning" "Hello" etc though there was a slight lean to sexual/appearance based shoutouts so i will admit that.

So about 60/40 in my eyes though i can understand how it would unnerve some women and make the uncomfortable (and men who experience it as well)

Yeah, most of those compliments wouldn't have been given to a man (or to a less attractive woman), but that doesn't make them harassment. C'mon, just ignore people who do this if you don't like it and enjoy being attractive.

I saw a video on this recently where some commenter they got on an American news show said this would have been a non-issue if the men were attractive. He was crass about it, but he was trying to make the point that, what if a woman wants that kind of attention?

I'll see if I can find the video.

Edit: here it is.

[Tubbsalot]

I dont know about people in NYC, but where I come from people say hello when you walk pass on the street, the polite thing is to at least smile in acknowledgement. Walking straight ahead without even looking sideways is rude possibly suspicious.

You've never lived in a city, apparently. Smiling in acknowledgement doesn't happen; saying hello to strangers is a clear sign of mental illness.

Anyway. As a lot of people have pointed out, a lot of it was probably dead time, but that misses the point - if it was a guy in the video, there wouldn't be any material whatsoever. Not even people saying "hi," I would guess. It's much more uncomfortable to be hello'd when it's a lead-in to hitting on you.

[Lordieth]

I dont know about people in NYC, but where I come from people say hello when you walk pass on the street, the polite thing is to at least smile in acknowledgement. Walking straight ahead without even looking sideways is rude possibly suspicious.

You've never lived in a city, apparently. Smiling in acknowledgement doesn't happen; saying hello to strangers is a clear sign of mental illness.

Anyway. As a lot of people have pointed out, a lot of it was probably dead time, but that misses the point - if it was a guy in the video, there wouldn't be any material whatsoever. Not even people saying "hi," I would guess. It's much more uncomfortable to be hello'd when it's a lead-in to hitting on you.

Actually, it did happen to a guy, but the question is, was he harassed?