NATION

PASSWORD

Student to Bring Dagger to School for Religious Reasons

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Kiribati-Tarawa
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1341
Founded: Jan 24, 2014
Ex-Nation

Student to Bring Dagger to School for Religious Reasons

Postby Kiribati-Tarawa » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:16 pm

http://www.columbian.com/news/2014/oct/ ... ry-school/

AUBURN — The Auburn School District is permitting a boy at Gildo Rey Elementary to bring a dagger to school for religious reasons.

The district says it's an exception to its zero-tolerance policy for weapons.

Assistant Superintendent Ryan Foster tells KING the knife is to remain under the boy's clothes at all times.

The small ceremonial knife called a kirpan is considered an instrument of social justice in the Sikh faith.

A Sikh student has been allowed to bring a dagger, called a Kirpan, to school because it is a part of his religion. The knife is ceremonial and carrying it is apparently part of the Sikh faith.

Meanwhile, a different student (not the same school or district) was suspended for wearing a shirt in support of the 2nd Amendment, because it had an image of a firearm on it.

Here's my view: I think that allowing people to practise their religion, be what it may, is important. However, there are certain religious practises which ought to be, at least, regulated, given the chance that it may inflict harm upon others. For example, if one were to demand that they be allowed to sacrifice humans for religious reasons, would we give them the green light? I don't think that bringing knives to school, even ceremonial ones, is appropriate, even if motivated by religious beliefs, for the sole purpose that it may be used to harm others. Now, I am not aware whether or not the knife is actually kept sharp (though I'm assuming it is), nor whether it actually does have the potential to be used as a weapon. Nonetheless, I don't think it sends the right message that one should be allowed to bring weapons into schools (speaking of which, another school shooting occurred just recently), simply because of their religious beliefs. What do you think?
From the desk of:
Ambassador Sir Thomas Chapman, CD, KG
His Majesty's Ambassador to the WA for Kiribati-Tarawa
Office # 22, Floor 5 of the General Assembly building

User avatar
Tyrinth
Diplomat
 
Posts: 706
Founded: Apr 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Tyrinth » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:20 pm

From what I recall, and I am by no means an expert, oftentimes they are ceremonial and kept dull. This isn't anything new, really. I often hear of Sikhs and that dagger, and there's usually someone saying it's dangerous or whatever.

Frankly, I don't think knives should be banned in schools. Within reason, of course. Not all knives are weapons. But I do support their right to carry one as part of their religion. Perhaps my views of knives in general is coloring my perspective here, I will admit, but I see no problem. I think comparing this to sacrifices is a little silly.
さあ、一緒に狂いましょう。
Ardoki wrote:Hitler was basically a libertarian, he supported the libertarian ideology of social Darwinism.

User avatar
Digital Planets
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1977
Founded: Jul 27, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Digital Planets » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:21 pm

Hang on, bringing my shotgun to school for religious purposes.
So you decide to open it anyway? What the heck, man?

User avatar
Kiribati-Tarawa
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1341
Founded: Jan 24, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Kiribati-Tarawa » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:23 pm

Tyrinth wrote:From what I recall, and I am by no means an expert, oftentimes they are ceremonial and kept dull. This isn't anything new, really. I often hear of Sikhs and that dagger, and there's usually someone saying it's dangerous or whatever.

Frankly, I don't think knives should be banned in schools. Within reason, of course. Not all knives are weapons. But I do support their right to carry one as part of their religion. Perhaps my views of knives in general is coloring my perspective here, I will admit, but I see no problem. I think comparing this to sacrifices is a little silly.

If it was a Christian, say, who wanted to bring a knife to school for "religious reasons," do you think it would be allowed? Also, what do you think about the student who was suspended because his shirt displayed an image of a gun?
From the desk of:
Ambassador Sir Thomas Chapman, CD, KG
His Majesty's Ambassador to the WA for Kiribati-Tarawa
Office # 22, Floor 5 of the General Assembly building

User avatar
Digital Planets
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1977
Founded: Jul 27, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Digital Planets » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:25 pm

Kiribati-Tarawa wrote:
Tyrinth wrote:From what I recall, and I am by no means an expert, oftentimes they are ceremonial and kept dull. This isn't anything new, really. I often hear of Sikhs and that dagger, and there's usually someone saying it's dangerous or whatever.

Frankly, I don't think knives should be banned in schools. Within reason, of course. Not all knives are weapons. But I do support their right to carry one as part of their religion. Perhaps my views of knives in general is coloring my perspective here, I will admit, but I see no problem. I think comparing this to sacrifices is a little silly.

If it was a Christian, say, who wanted to bring a knife to school for "religious reasons," do you think it would be allowed? Also, what do you think about the student who was suspended because his shirt displayed an image of a gun?


No expert on this, but I have a hunch that says that it's considered religious discrimination in 'Murica if you deny it.
So you decide to open it anyway? What the heck, man?

User avatar
Sevvania
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6893
Founded: Nov 12, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sevvania » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:26 pm

Digital Planets wrote:Hang on, bringing my shotgun to school for religious purposes.

For what it's worth, according to FBI statistics, knives kill more people than shotguns and rifles put together.

Tyrinth wrote:Frankly, I don't think knives should be banned in schools. Within reason, of course. Not all knives are weapons. But I do support their right to carry one as part of their religion. Perhaps my views of knives in general is coloring my perspective here, I will admit, but I see no problem. I think comparing this to sacrifices is a little silly.

I don't think they should be banned, either, but they are. Schools dogmatically try to enforce "zero tolerance" policies, and now they're making exceptions to it. It's arbitrary and hypocritical.

I'm all for religious freedom, but if you're going to let Sikhs carry knives in a "weapon free" zone, then anyone should be allowed to carry a knife, because a knife is a knife.
Last edited by Sevvania on Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Humble thyself and hold thy tongue."

Current Era: 1945
NationStates Stat Card - Sevvania
OFFICIAL FACTBOOK - Sevvania
4/1/13 - Never Forget

User avatar
Tyrinth
Diplomat
 
Posts: 706
Founded: Apr 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Tyrinth » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:26 pm

Kiribati-Tarawa wrote:If it was a Christian, say, who wanted to bring a knife to school for "religious reasons," do you think it would be allowed? Also, what do you think about the student who was suspended because his shirt displayed an image of a gun?

I do not like to speculate, as school boards are often ridiculous in what they do or don't allow, but I would say no. However, the kirpan is important to that particular religion, and as far as I know there is no such parallel in Christianity. So it would be an empty claim in that case.

And of course I disagree with the suspension due to the shirt.
さあ、一緒に狂いましょう。
Ardoki wrote:Hitler was basically a libertarian, he supported the libertarian ideology of social Darwinism.

User avatar
Kiribati-Tarawa
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1341
Founded: Jan 24, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Kiribati-Tarawa » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:27 pm

Digital Planets wrote:
Kiribati-Tarawa wrote:If it was a Christian, say, who wanted to bring a knife to school for "religious reasons," do you think it would be allowed? Also, what do you think about the student who was suspended because his shirt displayed an image of a gun?


No expert on this, but I have a hunch that says that it's considered religious discrimination in 'Murica if you deny it.

So, what you're saying, is that, in America, we can circumvent any law simply by claiming that our religious is freedom is being denied.
From the desk of:
Ambassador Sir Thomas Chapman, CD, KG
His Majesty's Ambassador to the WA for Kiribati-Tarawa
Office # 22, Floor 5 of the General Assembly building

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:28 pm

How many people have been stabbed with a kirpan in the US over the last...say 20 years?

User avatar
Digital Planets
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1977
Founded: Jul 27, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Digital Planets » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:28 pm

Kiribati-Tarawa wrote:
Digital Planets wrote:
No expert on this, but I have a hunch that says that it's considered religious discrimination in 'Murica if you deny it.

So, what you're saying, is that, in America, we can circumvent any law simply by claiming that our religious is freedom is being denied.


Depends on how you see it. If you prefer the loose terms of the law, yes, you can claim an item as an object of worship, any item will do. For stricter terms, I'd say it would be more related to objects of worship that are used in the well-known religions.
Last edited by Digital Planets on Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
So you decide to open it anyway? What the heck, man?

User avatar
OMGeverynameistaken
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12437
Founded: Jun 24, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby OMGeverynameistaken » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:29 pm

"An exception to the zero-tolerance policy."

I hope every parent in the district is taking this down for the occasion when some kid gets tased by the police for eating their poptart into a 'gun-shape.'
I AM DISAPPOINTED

User avatar
Master Shake
Minister
 
Posts: 2629
Founded: May 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Master Shake » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:29 pm

Kiribati-Tarawa wrote:
Digital Planets wrote:
No expert on this, but I have a hunch that says that it's considered religious discrimination in 'Murica if you deny it.

So, what you're saying, is that, in America, we can circumvent any law simply by claiming that our religious is freedom is being denied.


Within reason....

You can't smoke weed in public even if you are a Rastafarian and you can't go around naked even if you worship Mother Earth...
Only one Hungary. Only one Homeland!

Economic Left/Right: -2.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.15

I hate you all equally

User avatar
Kiribati-Tarawa
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1341
Founded: Jan 24, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Kiribati-Tarawa » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:30 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:How many people have been stabbed with a kirpan in the US over the last...say 20 years?

Well, I don't know. Now, this is speculation, of course, but say that, even if the kirpan was kept dull, the student managed to sharpen it and used it to attack another student or faculty member? Also, what kind of message do you think this is sending to Americans?
From the desk of:
Ambassador Sir Thomas Chapman, CD, KG
His Majesty's Ambassador to the WA for Kiribati-Tarawa
Office # 22, Floor 5 of the General Assembly building

User avatar
Master Shake
Minister
 
Posts: 2629
Founded: May 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Master Shake » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:31 pm

Kiribati-Tarawa wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:How many people have been stabbed with a kirpan in the US over the last...say 20 years?

Well, I don't know. Now, this is speculation, of course, but say that, even if the kirpan was kept dull, the student managed to sharpen it and used it to attack another student or faculty member? Also, what kind of message do you think this is sending to Americans?


The kids already think they can get away with murder....
Only one Hungary. Only one Homeland!

Economic Left/Right: -2.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.15

I hate you all equally

User avatar
-Ebola-
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1872
Founded: Oct 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby -Ebola- » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:31 pm

If he's not whipping it out in class and threatening other students with it, then what's the problem?
There are viruses on the internet! Make sure your computer is protected.
African, asexual, and proud.
Racism is foolish. You're all the same inside. I would know.

User avatar
Kiribati-Tarawa
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1341
Founded: Jan 24, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Kiribati-Tarawa » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:31 pm

Master Shake wrote:
Kiribati-Tarawa wrote:So, what you're saying, is that, in America, we can circumvent any law simply by claiming that our religious is freedom is being denied.


Within reason....

You can't smoke weed in public even if you are a Rastafarian and you can't go around naked even if you worship Mother Earth...

Well, that's a bit of a double standard, don't you think? Particularly odd, since smoking weed and going around naked does not particularly harm other people, whereas allowing someone to carry a knife into school could potentially do so.
From the desk of:
Ambassador Sir Thomas Chapman, CD, KG
His Majesty's Ambassador to the WA for Kiribati-Tarawa
Office # 22, Floor 5 of the General Assembly building

User avatar
Digital Planets
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1977
Founded: Jul 27, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Digital Planets » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:32 pm

-Ebola- wrote:If he's not whipping it out in class and threatening other students with it, then what's the problem?


Not yet. Never forget those two words.
So you decide to open it anyway? What the heck, man?

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:35 pm

Kiribati-Tarawa wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:How many people have been stabbed with a kirpan in the US over the last...say 20 years?

Well, I don't know. Now, this is speculation, of course, but say that, even if the kirpan was kept dull, the student managed to sharpen it and used it to attack another student or faculty member? Also, what kind of message do you think this is sending to Americans?


That acceptance of religion that isn't Christianity is important?

User avatar
Digital Planets
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1977
Founded: Jul 27, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Digital Planets » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:35 pm

Sevvania wrote:then anyone should be allowed to carry a knife, because a knife is a knife.


Then I should be allowed to bring my 12 knives and various machetes to school.

Yes, I have 12 or so knives and machetes.
So you decide to open it anyway? What the heck, man?

User avatar
Kiribati-Tarawa
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1341
Founded: Jan 24, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Kiribati-Tarawa » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:35 pm

-Ebola- wrote:If he's not whipping it out in class and threatening other students with it, then what's the problem?

Well, the fear is that he might begin to do that. This occurred just last April - and now you want to let people carry knives in school? Also, wouldn't this set a precedent for allowing people to bring carry weapons for religious reasons? I'm not just thinking about this particular student, but rather, about the message that it sends.
From the desk of:
Ambassador Sir Thomas Chapman, CD, KG
His Majesty's Ambassador to the WA for Kiribati-Tarawa
Office # 22, Floor 5 of the General Assembly building

User avatar
Kiribati-Tarawa
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1341
Founded: Jan 24, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Kiribati-Tarawa » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:36 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Kiribati-Tarawa wrote:Well, I don't know. Now, this is speculation, of course, but say that, even if the kirpan was kept dull, the student managed to sharpen it and used it to attack another student or faculty member? Also, what kind of message do you think this is sending to Americans?


That acceptance of religion that isn't Christianity is important?

Well, certainly. And I'm all for religious freedom, don't get me wrong, but I think there ought to be limits, or at least regulations, about things like this.
From the desk of:
Ambassador Sir Thomas Chapman, CD, KG
His Majesty's Ambassador to the WA for Kiribati-Tarawa
Office # 22, Floor 5 of the General Assembly building

User avatar
Tyrinth
Diplomat
 
Posts: 706
Founded: Apr 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Tyrinth » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:36 pm

Digital Planets wrote:
Sevvania wrote:then anyone should be allowed to carry a knife, because a knife is a knife.


Then I should be allowed to bring my 12 knives and various machetes to school.

Yes, I have 12 or so knives and machetes.

Only twelve?

That's the issue of "just because you can doesn't mean you should."

No. That's absurd, and I get that that's your point, but there's no reason a student shouldn't be able to carry a pocketknife around school. They're just tools.
さあ、一緒に狂いましょう。
Ardoki wrote:Hitler was basically a libertarian, he supported the libertarian ideology of social Darwinism.

User avatar
Digital Planets
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1977
Founded: Jul 27, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Digital Planets » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:37 pm

Tyrinth wrote:
Digital Planets wrote:
Then I should be allowed to bring my 12 knives and various machetes to school.

Yes, I have 12 or so knives and machetes.

Only twelve?

That's the issue of "just because you can doesn't mean you should."

No. That's absurd, and I get that that's your point, but there's no reason a student shouldn't be able to carry a pocketknife around school. They're just tools.


Well, give or take. I have to go back and count.
So you decide to open it anyway? What the heck, man?

User avatar
Kiribati-Tarawa
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1341
Founded: Jan 24, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Kiribati-Tarawa » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:38 pm

Tyrinth wrote:
Digital Planets wrote:
Then I should be allowed to bring my 12 knives and various machetes to school.

Yes, I have 12 or so knives and machetes.

Only twelve?

That's the issue of "just because you can doesn't mean you should."

No. That's absurd, and I get that that's your point, but there's no reason a student shouldn't be able to carry a pocketknife around school. They're just tools.

A pocketknife... which could easily be used as a weapon. Why do students need to carry pocketknives at school? Are they going to be doing a lot of whittling? If so, I'm pretty sure the wood shop teacher can furnish a few knives.
From the desk of:
Ambassador Sir Thomas Chapman, CD, KG
His Majesty's Ambassador to the WA for Kiribati-Tarawa
Office # 22, Floor 5 of the General Assembly building

User avatar
Master Shake
Minister
 
Posts: 2629
Founded: May 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Master Shake » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:38 pm

Kiribati-Tarawa wrote:
-Ebola- wrote:If he's not whipping it out in class and threatening other students with it, then what's the problem?

Well, the fear is that he might begin to do that. This occurred just last April - and now you want to let people carry knives in school? Also, wouldn't this set a precedent for allowing people to bring carry weapons for religious reasons? I'm not just thinking about this particular student, but rather, about the message that it sends.


Except no one is a big enough Red Neck to claim to worship the Constitution with the 2nd amendment held above all else. Imagine Bioshock Infinite and the religious "Cult of America"...

Besides even if anyone did claim to worship the constitution it still wouldn't be considered a legitimate religion....
Only one Hungary. Only one Homeland!

Economic Left/Right: -2.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.15

I hate you all equally

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Emotional Support Crocodile, Google [Bot], ImSaLiA, Majestic-12 [Bot], Philjia, Post War America, Tungstan

Advertisement

Remove ads