NationStates

Devvo Mate wrote:

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Then have a glass of real ale.

Lovely idea but I have a feeling the bloke who's selling me this pint of real ale has also laced it with lots of shit just like everybody else, he just seems better at conning people into thinking he's the real deal.

Move to Scotland and vote SNP in future.

Fionnuala_Saoirse wrote:

Devvo Mate wrote:
Lovely idea but I have a feeling the bloke who's selling me this pint of real ale has also laced it with lots of shit just like everybody else, he just seems better at conning people into thinking he's the real deal.

Move to Scotland and vote SNP in future.

Or move to Ireland and vote SF...you're esentially advocating for the same thing.

Fionnuala_Saoirse wrote:

Devvo Mate wrote:Move to Scotland and vote SNP in future.

Do you know how tempted I was to move to Scotland to get myself registered for the independence vote

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:

Fionnuala_Saoirse wrote:
Move to Scotland and vote SNP in future.

Or move to Ireland and vote SF...you're esentially advocating for the same thing.

Both good choices

Fionnuala_Saoirse wrote:

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Or move to Ireland and vote SF...you're esentially advocating for the same thing.

Both good choices

Then, hopefully new parties will spring up that advocate for the independence of Manchester...then Moss Side...then a single street. Parties that want the separation of a nation are unlikely to get my support.

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:

Fionnuala_Saoirse wrote:
Both good choices

Then, hopefully new parties will spring up that advocate for the independence of Manchester...then Moss Side...then a single street. Parties that want the separation of a nation are unlikely to get my support.

This is certainly the inevitable outcome. Pure anarchy. It can't play out any other way.

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Then, hopefully new parties will spring up that advocate for the independence of Manchester...then Moss Side...then a single street.

Yes that is literally exactly comparable to the situations in Scotland and NI

Devvo Mate wrote:

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Then, hopefully new parties will spring up that advocate for the independence of Manchester...then Moss Side...then a single street.

Yes that is literally exactly comparable to the situations in Scotland and NI

Actually, as Wales has its own independence party, and their is a higher level of discontent with Westminster in Yorkshire than Wales, the rise of the Yorkshire independence movement is coming.

Labour

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Actually, as Wales has its own independence party, and their is a higher level of discontent with Westminster in Yorkshire than Wales, the rise of the Yorkshire independence movement is coming.

....

Come on. You aren't actually comparing Wales, a different country to England, with its own language and history dating back over a thousand years, with pissed off northerners. You're not doing that because you aren't an idiot.

Devvo Mate wrote:

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:UKIP tend to take more votes from the tories. If you want to keep them out, vote UKIP.

UKIP are polling at 16% here so make no difference, and they're about the only party I'm less inclined to vote for than Labour in an attempt to keep the Tories out.

Aren't the Greens fairly strong in Bristol?

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:

Devvo Mate wrote:
Yes that is literally exactly comparable to the situations in Scotland and NI

Actually, as Wales has its own independence party, and their is a higher level of discontent with Westminster in Yorkshire than Wales, the rise of the Yorkshire independence movement is coming.

There is a serious Yorkshire devolution movement brewing, not a independence movement. Just like Mebyon Kernow is a devolution movement not an independence movement.

Angleter wrote:

Imperializt Russia wrote:That's FPTP for you.
Vote Labour, because they're the only large party that still cares about voting reform and might give you it in the next election.
Then in 2020, you can vote TUSC and that vote will actually matter.

They cared in 1997 too.

The Tories abjectly don't care and the LibDems aren't getting back in.

Angleter wrote:Aren't the Greens fairly strong in Bristol?

Yeah, but they do better in Bristol West, which I was in until the boundary change, so now I'm right at the south end of Bris NW. West might actually go Green, it's got the perfect ingredients for them which is lots of students, lots of middle-class lefties who used to vote Lib Dem but now feel betrayed so are going green, loads of hippies in Montpelier and St Werburghs, and lots of poor black people who feel completely shafted by the traditional left. Add to that a complete damp rag of a Lib Dem MP in Stephen Williams and we might see a Green MP in Bristol West. I think all of the Green council seats in Bristol are concentrated in West.

Olivaero wrote:

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Actually, as Wales has its own independence party, and their is a higher level of discontent with Westminster in Yorkshire than Wales, the rise of the Yorkshire independence movement is coming.

There is a serious Yorkshire devolution movement brewing, not a independence movement. Just like Mebyon Kernow is a devolution movement not an independence movement.

But devolution in one area, like what happened in Scotland/Wales, is not a good idea. Regions need to be created all at once, to ensure fareness.

Honestly Scottish Independence should not even be considered at this point, neither should moving to AV. There was a referendum, people had their say and the issue should be settled for the foreseeable future regardless of actual merits of either of these cases.

Great Nepal wrote:Honestly Scottish Independence should not even be considered at this point

Maybe not but should thinks be kept as is? 45% of the country voted to leave the UK, you can't completely ignore their many legitimate grievances.

Great Nepal wrote:neither should moving to AV.

I don't think abybody is still suggesting we move to AV. I don't think anyone wanted AV in the first place.

Great Nepal wrote:Honestly Scottish Independence should not even be considered at this point, neither should moving to AV. There was a referendum, people had their say and the issue should be settled for the foreseeable future regardless of actual merits of either of these cases.

And... why, exactly? It is to my understanding that a discussion on the theoretical possibility can continue and a referendum is not some mystical black hole where an issue immediately falls in, especially if the issue is quite obviously not dead and is quite obviously still being discussed.

This sounds like an easy, and kind of illogical, way to worm yourself out of the minority in those issues transforming into the majority.

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Actually, as Wales has its own independence party, and their is a higher level of discontent with Westminster in Yorkshire than Wales, the rise of the Yorkshire independence movement is coming.

Admittedly the appetite for full independence in Wales is quite small but I think the idea of independence in Yorkshire is next to none. Dissatisfaction with Westminster and London orientated politics is obviously high but that doesn't translate into independence movements - certainly not successful ones.

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:

Olivaero wrote:There is a serious Yorkshire devolution movement brewing, not a independence movement. Just like Mebyon Kernow is a devolution movement not an independence movement.

But devolution in one area, like what happened in Scotland/Wales, is not a good idea. Regions need to be created all at once, to ensure fareness.

Devolution for Scotland and Wales was a very good idea. It gave us a chance to move our countries forwards. Problem is, only Scotland is taking that opportunity.

Great Nepal wrote:Honestly Scottish Independence should not even be considered at this point, neither should moving to AV. There was a referendum, people had their say and the issue should be settled for the foreseeable future regardless of actual merits of either of these cases.

I agree to a certain extent but that doesn't mean that people can't continue putting the case forward for either. Also whilst the independence referendum on Scotland left a clear victory for no, it wasn't an overwhelming no and it obviously means a lot to the 45% of people who voted yes. You write of an issue every-time its been put to a referendum if the appetite for one is still there.

Pesda wrote:Devolution for Scotland and Wales was a very good idea. It gave us a chance to move our countries forwards. Problem is, only Scotland is taking that opportunity.

Only if you see the only way forward as independence. Surely there's a happy median with genuine home rule for all the constituent parts of the United Kingdom perhaps with a much smaller British Parliament in Westminster, dealing with macro economic and foreign policy?

Pesda wrote:

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:But devolution in one area, like what happened in Scotland/Wales, is not a good idea. Regions need to be created all at once, to ensure fareness.

Devolution for Scotland and Wales was a very good idea. It gave us a chance to move our countries forwards. Problem is, only Scotland is taking that opportunity.

It was a very good idea for Scotland and wales, it was a poor idea for the entire UK that it just happened in Scotland and wales.

Olivaero wrote:

Pesda wrote:Devolution for Scotland and Wales was a very good idea. It gave us a chance to move our countries forwards. Problem is, only Scotland is taking that opportunity.

It was a very good idea for Scotland and wales, it was a poor idea for the entire UK that it just happened in Scotland and wales.

It didn't just happen in Scotland and Wales though

Frazers wrote:

Olivaero wrote:It was a very good idea for Scotland and wales, it was a poor idea for the entire UK that it just happened in Scotland and wales.

It didn't just happen in Scotland and Wales though

Frazers, we've talked about this before, Northern Ireland doesn't exist. You're actually just from a really shitty part of the Isle of Man.