NationStates

Alyakia wrote:http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-attack-mps-fashioned-spears-while-harper-hid-in-closet/article21278580/

e: because a link alone doesn't do it justice: they made an MP phalanx with flagpole spears

Molon labe: it's not just a historical expression any more.

Infected Mushroom wrote:I think Parliament needs more security.

They should have trained elites (like the Kingsguard) outside of the Commons at all time for instance...

Not really, I think this attack as well as those various fence jumpers at the White House have proven something we probably should have known all a long-- you can increase security strength however much you want, but you're still going to have a reaction delay. A quick and reckless person can bypass security almost every time.

It only took this guy a minute-and-change to get from the original shooting to Parliament hill's centre block, and start shooting there, at which point he appears to have just run past security before they were able to take him down. And the RCMP did good work in doing so.

Fort Meade and the Maple Leaf - Foreign Policy.

The terror attacks in Ottawa mean that NSA-style surveillance could be coming to Canada much faster than anyone thought.

In the annals of Canadian history, the shooting death of a soldier and the wounding of three security personnel by a suspected Islamic terrorist this week may go down as the pivotal moment that allowed the country's spy services to expand their monitoring of Canadian citizens.

On Thursday, Prime Minister Stephen Harper addressed members in Canada's House of Commons, mere yards from where the gunman was shot dead by authorities the day before, and promised to push even harder for previously proposed enhancements to Canada's surveillance and detention laws for suspected terrorists.

The amendments would make it easier for Canada to monitor its citizens abroad and to share information with other countries' spy agencies, particularly the U.S. National Security Agency, which runs a vastly larger and more sophisticated intelligence-gathering apparatus than its counterpart to the north. The proposals have been hotly debated in Canada for the past week, and passage isn't a foregone conclusion. But the shooting may have given Harper's conservative government, which holds a majority of seats in parliament, the final push it needs to get them turned into law.

West Aurelia wrote:Fort Meade and the Maple Leaf - Foreign Policy.

The terror attacks in Ottawa mean that NSA-style surveillance could be coming to Canada much faster than anyone thought.

In the annals of Canadian history, the shooting death of a soldier and the wounding of three security personnel by a suspected Islamic terrorist this week may go down as the pivotal moment that allowed the country's spy services to expand their monitoring of Canadian citizens.

On Thursday, Prime Minister Stephen Harper addressed members in Canada's House of Commons, mere yards from where the gunman was shot dead by authorities the day before, and promised to push even harder for previously proposed enhancements to Canada's surveillance and detention laws for suspected terrorists.

The amendments would make it easier for Canada to monitor its citizens abroad and to share information with other countries' spy agencies, particularly the U.S. National Security Agency, which runs a vastly larger and more sophisticated intelligence-gathering apparatus than its counterpart to the north. The proposals have been hotly debated in Canada for the past week, and passage isn't a foregone conclusion. But the shooting may have given Harper's conservative government, which holds a majority of seats in parliament, the final push it needs to get them turned into law.

Well, crap, more ineffective internet surveillance system that logically and statistically has been proven to be useless in stopping crime.

West Aurelia wrote:Fort Meade and the Maple Leaf - Foreign Policy.

The terror attacks in Ottawa mean that NSA-style surveillance could be coming to Canada much faster than anyone thought.

In the annals of Canadian history, the shooting death of a soldier and the wounding of three security personnel by a suspected Islamic terrorist this week may go down as the pivotal moment that allowed the country's spy services to expand their monitoring of Canadian citizens.

On Thursday, Prime Minister Stephen Harper addressed members in Canada's House of Commons, mere yards from where the gunman was shot dead by authorities the day before, and promised to push even harder for previously proposed enhancements to Canada's surveillance and detention laws for suspected terrorists.

The amendments would make it easier for Canada to monitor its citizens abroad and to share information with other countries' spy agencies, particularly the U.S. National Security Agency, which runs a vastly larger and more sophisticated intelligence-gathering apparatus than its counterpart to the north. The proposals have been hotly debated in Canada for the past week, and passage isn't a foregone conclusion. But the shooting may have given Harper's conservative government, which holds a majority of seats in parliament, the final push it needs to get them turned into law.

Those libertarian floating islands are looking better and better.

Alyakia wrote:http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-attack-mps-fashioned-spears-while-harper-hid-in-closet/article21278580/

e: because a link alone doesn't do it justice: they made an MP phalanx with flagpole spears

That is amazing.

It's sad how Harper is just using this tragic event to push his tough-on-crime agenda down everyone's throats.

Ainin wrote:It's sad how Harper is just using this tragic event to push his tough-on-crime agenda down everyone's throats.

I'm not a Harper fan, in fact I find him to be pretty awful. But, I've yet to see him do such a thing. Can you give me an example?

Svatantra Mulukama wrote:

Ainin wrote:It's sad how Harper is just using this tragic event to push his tough-on-crime agenda down everyone's throats.

I'm not a Harper fan, in fact I find him to be pretty awful. But, I've yet to see him do such a thing. Can you give me an example?

Five posts up.

The Foreign Policy article linked there is being awfully sensationalist (similarly to most US media coverage of the whole thing *looks at CNN's nonsensical reporting*) about the whole thing but it got most of the points right.

Ainin wrote:

Svatantra Mulukama wrote:
I'm not a Harper fan, in fact I find him to be pretty awful. But, I've yet to see him do such a thing. Can you give me an example?

Five posts up.

The Foreign Policy article linked there is being awfully sensationalist (similarly to most US media coverage of the whole thing *looks at CNN's nonsensical reporting*) about the whole thing but it got most of the points right.

I'll give it a read.

Was this really all that surprising? Canada's been at war in the Middle East for years. I'm amazed that nothing like this happened already. And then of course, we have Harper, using this as an excuse to push his oppressive agenda. Ugh, he's such a scumbag.

Well, crap, it appears you're right Ainin. The fact that Harper is doing this is certainly worrying.

Svatantra Mulukama wrote:Well, crap, it appears you're right Ainin. The fact that Harper is doing this is certainly worrying.

Worrying, but not really that surprising. We're talking about the man that locked the doors of Parliament and threw away the key rather than answer questions about complicity in American war crimes, abolished the Wheat Board and long gun registry with little consultation, and deceived Parliament to save his precious Joint Shit Fighter.

What Harper's doing is exactly what the terrorists want. This article's second half sums up my opinion rather well: http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/natio ... ice=mobile

Merizoc wrote:Was this really all that surprising? Canada's been at war in the Middle East for years. I'm amazed that nothing like this happened already. And then of course, we have Harper, using this as an excuse to push his oppressive agenda. Ugh, he's such a scumbag.

Agreed, he is a scumbag.

Ainin wrote:

Svatantra Mulukama wrote:Well, crap, it appears you're right Ainin. The fact that Harper is doing this is certainly worrying.

Worrying, but not really that surprising. We're talking about the man that locked the doors of Parliament and threw away the key rather than answer questions about complicity in American war crimes, abolished the Wheat Board and long gun registry with little consultation, and deceived Parliament to save his precious Joint Shit Fighter.

What Harper's doing is exactly what the terrorists want. This article's second half sums up my opinion rather well: http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/natio ... ice=mobile

Definitely not surprising. Initially, I was surprised that he hadnt made the attack a political issue. Then I realized that he actually did. Ugh.

Canada is becoming a police state...

Ainin wrote:It's sad how Harper is just using this tragic event to push his tough-on-crime agenda down everyone's throats.

A gunman made it into parliament, and made it very close to the leader of the country.

Like it or not security will have to be tightened.

Edit: The fact you're complaining about Harper using this to push his agenda while you use this to rail on him should also be noted.

Marcurix wrote:

Ainin wrote:It's sad how Harper is just using this tragic event to push his tough-on-crime agenda down everyone's throats.

A gunman made it into parliament, and made it very close to the leader of the country.

Like it or not security will have to be tightened.

Edit: The fact you're complaining about Harper using this to push his agenda while you use this to rail on him should also be noted.

Expanding the powers and abilities of government organizations like CSIS to monitor the Canadian public would have done absolutely nothing to stop these attacks. Put more guards around high value targets, by all means, but intercepting our email, internet traffic, and phone calls, isn't going to do anything to stop batshit crazy people from doing batshit crazy things. For fuck's sake, the RCMP were in a tail car when Couture-Rouleau killed Patrice Vincent in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu.

Canadian Police State wrote:Canada is becoming a police state...

Simply because a politician makes some speeches about tightening civil liberties in the name of security, doesn't mean that the country is a police state. Even if that politician is a majority-holding PM. There's a process that needs to be followed.

Camicon wrote:

Marcurix wrote:
A gunman made it into parliament, and made it very close to the leader of the country.

Like it or not security will have to be tightened.

Edit: The fact you're complaining about Harper using this to push his agenda while you use this to rail on him should also be noted.

Expanding the powers and abilities of government organizations like CSIS to monitor the Canadian public would have done absolutely nothing to stop these attacks. Put more guards around high value targets, by all means, but intercepting our email, internet traffic, and phone calls, isn't going to do anything to stop batshit crazy people from doing batshit crazy things. For fuck's sake, the RCMP were in a tail car when Couture-Rouleau killed Patrice Vincent in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu.

You mistake my agreement for more security for an agreement to further empower organizations like CSIS, I can assure you this is not the case.

It will be explored, however, because its seen as a key security tool of the day and age by governments in the western world, whom are run by a generation of people that didn't grow up with such a tool and thus view it differently than you or I.

Elsa the Snow Queen wrote:But don't get me wrong, I hope that the group of shitheads who tried to instigate this heinous attack get their butts kicked

Who do you think is responsible your majesty?

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014 ... ports.html

Those who would've claimed no one would tell a man what not to wear to avoid being targeted for violence have been utterly discredited.

Novorobo wrote:http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/10/22/soldiers_told_not_to_wear_uniforms_in_public_canadian_press_reports.html

Those who would've claimed no one would tell a man what not to wear to avoid being targeted for violence have been utterly discredited.

*shrug* it was like that here for years thank to the IRA. possibly still is.

Greater Weselton wrote:

Elsa the Snow Queen wrote:But don't get me wrong, I hope that the group of shitheads who tried to instigate this heinous attack get their butts kicked

Who do you think is responsible your majesty?

the Aristocrats.

Alyakia wrote:

Novorobo wrote:http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/10/22/soldiers_told_not_to_wear_uniforms_in_public_canadian_press_reports.html

Those who would've claimed no one would tell a man what not to wear to avoid being targeted for violence have been utterly discredited.

*shrug* it was like that here for years thank to the IRA. possibly still is.

Is here England, NI or ROI?

Just saw the joint-Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto Canadian anthems and I must say, it was moving.