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NHS waiting times kill

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Frazers
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NHS waiting times kill

Postby Frazers » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:55 am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... h-nhs.html

Nearly 1,400 patients annually wait at least a year for an operation, figures obtained by the Liberal Democrats show. In England, which is 17 times larger, only 574 people suffer the same delay.

In just five years, 99 heart disease victims have died while awaiting treatment at hospitals in Cardiff and Swansea.
The lengthy delays were a ‘plausible explanation’ for their deaths, the Royal College of Surgeons said.

Other patients deteriorate in the months before their operations, making it more difficult to treat them when they go under the knife. The college warned last year that cardiac patients were regularly dying on the waiting list for surgery at the University Hospital of Wales in Cardiff.

Today’s investigation has uncovered shocking stories including that of a retired businessman who expects to be dead by Christmas because delays in seeing a heart specialist have left him too ill to be treated.

By this time his condition was so serious that the specialist told him there was nothing more they could do.

Official statistics show Welsh residents must wait much longer than their counterparts in England for essential diagnostic tests. Some 36.5 per cent wait more than six weeks for an MRI scan. Across the border the figure is just 1.2 per cent.

A shocking 46.3 per cent of patients in Wales face waits of over six weeks for a colonoscopy examination, which is used to look for signs of bowel cancer. In England only 3.5 per cent do

.

We're often very quick to accept glowing praise regarding the NHS and more often than not it does a grand job but waiting times have always been the major source of its criticism and this certainly doesn't help. Its a disgrace that in modern Britain people are dying from an outdated system that isn't supporting them properly. This should be a point of national shame. I'm not sure how to fix it but certainly money alone isn't the answer .

What say you?

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Tubbsalot
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Postby Tubbsalot » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:03 am

Frazers wrote:I'm not sure how to fix it but certainly money alone isn't the answer

But, I mean, are you sure? Because maybe that is the answer. I haven't looked at the numbers here but it's always a good move politically to crush budgets unless you're engaging in a high-visibility Improvement Of Publicly-Funded Department X (like education, for example). Is it really that hard to believe that the NHS just isn't getting the money it needs to operate effectively? Aren't some of the major issues that there's insufficient bed space and hospitals and medical staff? Those all seem like issues which would be fixed primarily by the application of money.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:04 am

seems like they need a bit of reorganizing the resources they do have so that there are no more pockets of long waits like those outlined in the article.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:06 am

You know what kills more people?

Not going to the doctor at all because you can't afford it.
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Svatantra Mulukama
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Postby Svatantra Mulukama » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:23 am

Frazers wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2802344/condemned-die-waiting-list-shambles-day-3-mail-s-expose-welsh-nhs.html

Nearly 1,400 patients annually wait at least a year for an operation, figures obtained by the Liberal Democrats show. In England, which is 17 times larger, only 574 people suffer the same delay.

In just five years, 99 heart disease victims have died while awaiting treatment at hospitals in Cardiff and Swansea.
The lengthy delays were a ‘plausible explanation’ for their deaths, the Royal College of Surgeons said.

Other patients deteriorate in the months before their operations, making it more difficult to treat them when they go under the knife. The college warned last year that cardiac patients were regularly dying on the waiting list for surgery at the University Hospital of Wales in Cardiff.

Today’s investigation has uncovered shocking stories including that of a retired businessman who expects to be dead by Christmas because delays in seeing a heart specialist have left him too ill to be treated.

By this time his condition was so serious that the specialist told him there was nothing more they could do.

Official statistics show Welsh residents must wait much longer than their counterparts in England for essential diagnostic tests. Some 36.5 per cent wait more than six weeks for an MRI scan. Across the border the figure is just 1.2 per cent.

A shocking 46.3 per cent of patients in Wales face waits of over six weeks for a colonoscopy examination, which is used to look for signs of bowel cancer. In England only 3.5 per cent do

.

We're often very quick to accept glowing praise regarding the NHS and more often than not it does a grand job but waiting times have always been the major source of its criticism and this certainly doesn't help. Its a disgrace that in modern Britain people are dying from an outdated system that isn't supporting them properly. This should be a point of national shame. I'm not sure how to fix it but certainly money alone isn't the answer .

What say you?


Money alone isn't the answer? You're forgetting that the NHS is severely underfunded, and that increased funding and availability can prevent things like this. The alternative is scrapping the universal healthcare system, which would be nothing short of disastrous.
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Greater-London
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Postby Greater-London » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:34 am

David Starkey for once was right when he said that the NHS was the "sacred cow of British politcs" which often puts its beyond criticism and makes politicians scared of meaningful reform.

Regardless of what direction the NHS goes in I think there is a general consensus that most people want to keep the health service free and available to everyone which means we need to have a grown up discussion about how were going to pay for it. You may not like the answer but there's no way about it LOTS more money through cutting elsewhere or tax rises.
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Frazers
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Postby Frazers » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:36 am

The Rich Port wrote:You know what kills more people?

Not going to the doctor at all because you can't afford it.


This is the UK. That doesn't happen here. Its not a binary question.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:39 am

Frazers wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:You know what kills more people?

Not going to the doctor at all because you can't afford it.


This is the UK. That doesn't happen here. Its not a binary question.


Then be fucking happy you're not waiting 10 years for your parents to earn enough money to take you for a regular checkup to see if anything's killing you or not.

Now that I'm beyond that age, now I have to wait until I can get a job to finally go to the doctor.
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Landenburg
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Postby Landenburg » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:39 am

The Rich Port wrote:You know what kills more people?

Not going to the doctor at all because you can't afford it.

What's the point of going to a doctor if you can't get what you need because of the wait times? So that I know what I'm going to die from?

Their system needs to be changed.
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Auroya
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Postby Auroya » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:41 am

Reorganization and better funding are the answer.

Even in its present state it's a hell of a lot better than having no public healthcare, but hey, we can always improve.
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Frazers
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Postby Frazers » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:41 am

The Rich Port wrote:
Frazers wrote:
This is the UK. That doesn't happen here. Its not a binary question.


Then be fucking happy you're not waiting 10 years for your parents to earn enough money to take you for a regular checkup to see if anything's killing you or not.

Now that I'm beyond that age, now I have to wait until I can get a job to finally go to the doctor.


Why would I be happy with slightly better than rock bottom. Have some aspirations for fuck sake.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:42 am

Landenburg wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:You know what kills more people?

Not going to the doctor at all because you can't afford it.

What's the point of going to a doctor if you can't get what you need because of the wait times? So that I know what I'm going to die from?

Their system needs to be changed.


Not going to the doctor at all vs. waiting, on average, a few weeks?

Yeah, I'll take the latter any day.

Shit, I'll wait a month or more.
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS
CONSERVATISM IS FEAR AND STAGNATION AS IDEOLOGY. ONLY MARCH FORWARD.

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Frazers
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Postby Frazers » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:49 am

The Rich Port wrote:
Landenburg wrote:What's the point of going to a doctor if you can't get what you need because of the wait times? So that I know what I'm going to die from?

Their system needs to be changed.


Not going to the doctor at all vs. waiting, on average, a few weeks?

Yeah, I'll take the latter any day.

Shit, I'll wait a month or more.


So people should always settle for slightly better than your abysmal country? Fuck that.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:52 am

Frazers wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
Then be fucking happy you're not waiting 10 years for your parents to earn enough money to take you for a regular checkup to see if anything's killing you or not.

Now that I'm beyond that age, now I have to wait until I can get a job to finally go to the doctor.


Why would I be happy with slightly better than rock bottom. Have some aspirations for fuck sake.


How is waiting a few weeks goddamn rock bottom?

Most of the world would kill for that shit.

What next, do you want the doctor to give you a blowjob too while serving you your medicine on a silver platter?

Be fucking realistic.
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS
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Frazers
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Postby Frazers » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:55 am

The Rich Port wrote:
Frazers wrote:
Why would I be happy with slightly better than rock bottom. Have some aspirations for fuck sake.


How is waiting a few weeks goddamn rock bottom?

Most of the world would kill for that shit.

What next, do you want the doctor to give you a blowjob too while serving you your medicine on a silver platter?

Be fucking realistic.


I can't believe you're complaining about having to pay to see doctors. At least there are even some in your area.

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Greater-London
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Postby Greater-London » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:01 am

The Rich Port wrote:
How is waiting a few weeks goddamn rock bottom?

Most of the world would kill for that shit.

What next, do you want the doctor to give you a blowjob too while serving you your medicine on a silver platter?

Be fucking realistic.


Where exactly are you from? because I'm assuming (and correct me if I'm wrong) that its somewhere where you get 3 square meals a day, free education, a roof over your head and relative political and social stability. If that's true then most of the world would kill for all the "shit" you have. So grow up and realize that just because healthcare in your country is worse than in the UK doesn't mean noone can mention the failings of the NHS.
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Landenburg
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Postby Landenburg » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:02 am

The Rich Port wrote:
Frazers wrote:
Why would I be happy with slightly better than rock bottom. Have some aspirations for fuck sake.


How is waiting a few weeks goddamn rock bottom?

Most of the world would kill for that shit.

What next, do you want the doctor to give you a blowjob too while serving you your medicine on a silver platter?

Be fucking realistic.

You can afford continuous internet but complain about having to pay for a doctor because you apparently can't afford it?
Alas yonder woman, damn you tempt me with thy saucy bosom
thus methinks I shall bestow my codpiece in thee & make naughty love to my lady all night
Please haste hither & quench this torment fairest maiden
get some

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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:10 am

The cognitive dissonance in this thread is amazing.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:11 am

Landenburg wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
How is waiting a few weeks goddamn rock bottom?

Most of the world would kill for that shit.

What next, do you want the doctor to give you a blowjob too while serving you your medicine on a silver platter?

Be fucking realistic.

You can afford continuous internet but complain about having to pay for a doctor because you apparently can't afford it?


It's a good Internet plan...

Far cheaper than any healthcare I would need... Are you familiar with healthcare costs in America? Way higher than Internet access.

So, best point to bring up. 5/5. A+. Would fap again.

Frazers wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
How is waiting a few weeks goddamn rock bottom?

Most of the world would kill for that shit.

What next, do you want the doctor to give you a blowjob too while serving you your medicine on a silver platter?

Be fucking realistic.


I can't believe you're complaining about having to pay to see doctors. At least there are even some in your area.


Another amazing point. What's the point of having doctors nearby if I can't get them to even look at me without paying them?

That's like having fire extinguishers all over a building but not being able to use them to put out a fire because you need to pay for them. And then there's the one guy who's like "WHO DON'T GOT A SIX PENCE 'ROUND 'ERE?! BLOODY 'ELL!"

Greater-London wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
How is waiting a few weeks goddamn rock bottom?

Most of the world would kill for that shit.

What next, do you want the doctor to give you a blowjob too while serving you your medicine on a silver platter?

Be fucking realistic.


Where exactly are you from? because I'm assuming (and correct me if I'm wrong) that its somewhere where you get 3 square meals a day, free education, a roof over your head and relative political and social stability. If that's true then most of the world would kill for all the "shit" you have. So grow up and realize that just because healthcare in your country is worse than in the UK doesn't mean noone can mention the failings of the NHS.


I don't see why my growing up somewhere has to do with wishing for a universal health care system.

I grew up in Puerto Rico, an awful country, where I did not have 3 square meals a day on average, the free education was awful, the roof over my head leaked and political stability meant buying the Governor a BMW and a hooker.

Your perception of failings in the NHS is stupid and spoiled, is what I'm getting at here.
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Indira
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Postby Indira » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:13 am

Significant reform to cut the red tape would be a good place to start. More money and more efficient useage of said money would also be good. And disqualifying daft operations like the Josie Cunningham's breats enlargement would be another place to improve on. More funding would also help, but without reorganisation, I don't think it would solve the issue

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Landenburg
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Postby Landenburg » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:15 am

The Rich Port wrote:
Landenburg wrote:You can afford continuous internet but complain about having to pay for a doctor because you apparently can't afford it?


It's a good Internet plan...

Far cheaper than any healthcare I would need... Are you familiar with healthcare costs in America? Way higher than Internet access.

So, best point to bring up. 5/5. A+. Would fap again.


So you can afford a constant supply of internet but yet you can't afford ANY kind of insurance, at ALL?
Alas yonder woman, damn you tempt me with thy saucy bosom
thus methinks I shall bestow my codpiece in thee & make naughty love to my lady all night
Please haste hither & quench this torment fairest maiden
get some

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:17 am

Landenburg wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
It's a good Internet plan...

Far cheaper than any healthcare I would need... Are you familiar with healthcare costs in America? Way higher than Internet access.

So, best point to bring up. 5/5. A+. Would fap again.


So you can afford a constant supply of internet but yet you can't afford ANY kind of insurance, at ALL?


So you're NOT familiar with healthcare costs.

Good to know.

There is a growing trend of people who use WebMD and Yahoo Answers instead of paying insurance costs for checkups.

From everything to a cold (which, yeah, I guess you don't really need a checkup for, but you do need a doctor's note for school and job excuses) to broken bones (you should really go to a doctor for that) to STDs.
Last edited by The Rich Port on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS
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Sinica
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Postby Sinica » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:18 am

Frazers wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2802344/condemned-die-waiting-list-shambles-day-3-mail-s-expose-welsh-nhs.html

Nearly 1,400 patients annually wait at least a year for an operation, figures obtained by the Liberal Democrats show. In England, which is 17 times larger, only 574 people suffer the same delay.

In just five years, 99 heart disease victims have died while awaiting treatment at hospitals in Cardiff and Swansea.
The lengthy delays were a ‘plausible explanation’ for their deaths, the Royal College of Surgeons said.

Other patients deteriorate in the months before their operations, making it more difficult to treat them when they go under the knife. The college warned last year that cardiac patients were regularly dying on the waiting list for surgery at the University Hospital of Wales in Cardiff.

Today’s investigation has uncovered shocking stories including that of a retired businessman who expects to be dead by Christmas because delays in seeing a heart specialist have left him too ill to be treated.

By this time his condition was so serious that the specialist told him there was nothing more they could do.

Official statistics show Welsh residents must wait much longer than their counterparts in England for essential diagnostic tests. Some 36.5 per cent wait more than six weeks for an MRI scan. Across the border the figure is just 1.2 per cent.

A shocking 46.3 per cent of patients in Wales face waits of over six weeks for a colonoscopy examination, which is used to look for signs of bowel cancer. In England only 3.5 per cent do

.

We're often very quick to accept glowing praise regarding the NHS and more often than not it does a grand job but waiting times have always been the major source of its criticism and this certainly doesn't help. Its a disgrace that in modern Britain people are dying from an outdated system that isn't supporting them properly. This should be a point of national shame. I'm not sure how to fix it but certainly money alone isn't the answer .

What say you?

there is no way to fix the problem in the short run, its not just a matter of money but personnel, and training a large number of new people takes ages, this problem will persist for some time and there is no way around it, but if the government plans well they can get it under control within 5-10yrs.
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Frazers
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Founded: Mar 16, 2013
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Postby Frazers » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:18 am

The Rich Port wrote:
Landenburg wrote:
So you can afford a constant supply of internet but yet you can't afford ANY kind of insurance, at ALL?


So you're NOT familiar with healthcare costs.

Good to know.


This is NOT a thread about the US. Quit it.

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Lordieth
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Postby Lordieth » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:19 am

People waiting for operations can die before operations shocker.

All waiting times kill, unless you're operated on immediately after diagnosis. Typical Daily Mail nonsense.
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