Is War A Valid Option To Deal With Putin?

[Fascist Republic Of Bermuda]

and hundreds of years before that happened, the high lords of the Ukraine swore oaths of fealty and eternal loyalty to the Russian Empire.

Yet hundreds of years later, they seek to betray that pact and seize the local crown for themselves by breaking away from Moscow.

Who's not keeping their word now?

Except that the Russian Empire (and Romanov Dynasty) ceased to exist in 1917, with the February Revolution.

And the USSR ceased to exist in 1991, with Russia being the official successor state.

Don't get me wrong, if parts of Ukraine wants to go from Ukraine, they can go, but Ukraine's independence is official. By your logic, Denmark has claims to most of Scandinavia, the UK has claims to 1/4 of Earth's land, Italy has claims on the entire Roman Empire, Germany has claims on most of Europe (Third Reich), and the Mongolia has claims to most of Asia. Not to mention France, who, by your logic, has claims on Germany, Spain, and lots of European Russia.

[Holyrood]

Mutually Assured Destruction.

[Insaeldor]

With the Ruble dropping to its lowest point since 1994 I'd say we're doing alright with sanctions and diplomatic pressures.

[Imperializt Russia]

Mutually Assured Destruction.

MAD is an argument against strategic nuclear exchange.
That's about it.

[Baltenstein]

After reading Infected Mushroom's posts, I am now picturing Russia as an insane, scorned ex-lover-turned-stalker who is chasing after a terrified Ukraine with a butcher's knife, all the while screaming:

"LOVE IS ETERNAL! TOGETHER FOREVER, UKRAINE! TOGETHER FOREVER!"

[Cyrisnia]

After reading Infected Mushroom's posts, I am now picturing Russia as an insane, scorned ex-lover-turned-stalker who is chasing after a terrified Ukraine with a butcher's knife, all the while screaming:

"LOVE IS ETERNAL! TOGETHER FOREVER, UKRAINE! TOGETHER FOREVER!"

http://i.imgur.com/Ay1q3d6.png

[Rebellious Fishermen]

Absolutely, but it's not at that point.

[Fukien]

What flavor is that kool-aid, OP?

[Grand Russian Federation]

Putin is the greatest Russian leader the country has got in 3 centuries.

One who is aiding pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine? The same rebels who SHOT DOWN a commercial plane AND KILLED everyone on board? That's real great. Good Putnin.

He does what is best for his country.

I would fund the Pro-Russian rebels too. Think about it, put yourself in the shoes of Putin. The West seeks to isolate your country. Unless you are crazy, you will NOT let Ukraine fall to Western and right-wing influence.

[Vamtrl]

We all know Russian President Putin is growing out of hand. Something has to be done, since economic sanctions aren't effective since they were issued against Russia. Should war be brought forth? Or is there yet another option?

Growing out of hand? War?

[Infected Mushroom]

and hundreds of years before that happened, the high lords of the Ukraine swore oaths of fealty and eternal loyalty to the Russian Empire.

Yet hundreds of years later, they seek to betray that pact and seize the local crown for themselves by breaking away from Moscow.

Who's not keeping their word now?

Except that the Russian Empire (and Romanov Dynasty) ceased to exist in 1917, with the February Revolution.

And the USSR ceased to exist in 1991, with Russia being the official successor state.

Don't get me wrong, if parts of Ukraine wants to go from Ukraine, they can go, but Ukraine's independence is official. By your logic, Denmark has claims to most of Scandinavia, the UK has claims to 1/4 of Earth's land, Italy has claims on the entire Roman Empire, Germany has claims on most of Europe (Third Reich), and the Mongolia has claims to most of Asia. Not to mention France, who, by your logic, has claims on Germany, Spain, and lots of European Russia.

Denmark might have a claim to the rest of Scandinavia, I don't know enough about history to say.

Mongols never engaged in enough cultural assimilation to have a cultural claim over most of the lands they may have seized.

Most European empires are disqualified because their conquest is seperated by massive bodies of water. There's just no sense in saying the British have a historical claim over South Africa, its way too far away.

Russia on the other hand, overcomes both obstacles. Hundreds of years of control of the Ukraine and cultural assimilation, they are connected by land and there are a few hundred miles apart (from Moscow).

For the puporses of the law and this doctrine, Russian Empire = Soviet Union = Russia, its the continuation of the same Crown...

[Baltenstein]

One who is aiding pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine? The same rebels who SHOT DOWN a commercial plane AND KILLED everyone on board? That's real great. Good Putnin.

He does what is best for his country.

I would fund the Pro-Russian rebels too. Think about it, put yourself in the shoes of Putin. The West seeks to isolate your country. Unless you are crazy, you will NOT let Ukraine fall to Western and right-wing influence.

They won't take you away from me, my precioussssssss!

Seriously, some people in this thread paint Putin much more like a possessive maniac than he probably is in reality.

[United Marxist Nations]

Except that the Russian Empire (and Romanov Dynasty) ceased to exist in 1917, with the February Revolution.

And the USSR ceased to exist in 1991, with Russia being the official successor state.

Don't get me wrong, if parts of Ukraine wants to go from Ukraine, they can go, but Ukraine's independence is official. By your logic, Denmark has claims to most of Scandinavia, the UK has claims to 1/4 of Earth's land, Italy has claims on the entire Roman Empire, Germany has claims on most of Europe (Third Reich), and the Mongolia has claims to most of Asia. Not to mention France, who, by your logic, has claims on Germany, Spain, and lots of European Russia.

Denmark might have a claim to the rest of Scandinavia, I don't know enough about history to say.

Mongols never engaged in enough cultural assimilation to have a cultural claim over most of the lands they may have seized.

Most European empires are disqualified because their conquest is seperated by massive bodies of water. There's just no sense in saying the British have a historical claim over South Africa, its way too far away.

Russia on the other hand, overcomes both obstacles. Hundreds of years of control of the Ukraine and cultural assimilation, they are connected by land and there are a few hundred miles apart (from Moscow).

For the puporses of the law and this doctrine, Russian Empire = Soviet Union = Russia, its the continuation of the same Crown...

No it isn't. The USSR is not the continuation of the Russian Empire. That line was broken, it was destroyed, it was meaningless. The USSR wasn't an empire in the legal sense. As per the Union Treaty of 1922 (treaty that established the USSR), separate Soviet Republics joined together to form the USSR. In theory, the USSR was a compact by the SSR's to form a government, whereas the Russian Empire was a government organized in the opposite manner. And the Soviet Union decreed itself non-existent, nullifying the duties of the SSR's per the Union Treaty.

[Respubliko de Libereco]

If America went to war with Russia, Canada would be putin a bad situation.
Sorry.

[Roski]

Is war a Valid option.

its feasible, possible, and the likelyhood of NATO victory is very high, so I say yes.

However, I kind of like living, as well as the other 7 billion people here, so could we not?

[Constantinopolis]

War is a valid option for Putin to deal with the Ukrainian nationalists and fascists.

[Fascist Republic Of Bermuda]

Except that the Russian Empire (and Romanov Dynasty) ceased to exist in 1917, with the February Revolution.

And the USSR ceased to exist in 1991, with Russia being the official successor state.

Don't get me wrong, if parts of Ukraine wants to go from Ukraine, they can go, but Ukraine's independence is official. By your logic, Denmark has claims to most of Scandinavia, the UK has claims to 1/4 of Earth's land, Italy has claims on the entire Roman Empire, Germany has claims on most of Europe (Third Reich), and the Mongolia has claims to most of Asia. Not to mention France, who, by your logic, has claims on Germany, Spain, and lots of European Russia.

Denmark might have a claim to the rest of Scandinavia, I don't know enough about history to say.

Mongols never engaged in enough cultural assimilation to have a cultural claim over most of the lands they may have seized.

Most European empires are disqualified because their conquest is seperated by massive bodies of water. There's just no sense in saying the British have a historical claim over South Africa, its way too far away.

Russia on the other hand, overcomes both obstacles. Hundreds of years of control of the Ukraine and cultural assimilation, they are connected by land and there are a few hundred miles apart (from Moscow).

For the puporses of the law and this doctrine, Russian Empire = Soviet Union = Russia, its the continuation of the same Crown...

The Russian "Crown" ended with the February Revolution. The Soviet Union was just that, a Union of different Soviet Socialist Republics, and was never the legal successor to the Russian Empire.

The Roman Empire also overcame both (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_(cultural), and the Empire was connected on land at Palestine), so the French, English, Israelis, Greeks, Arabs, etc. need to bow down before their new Italian overlords.

Technically, however, that means that Yugoslavia has claims on all of ex-Yugoslavia. And before you say, "The Yugoslavs never truly achieved cultural assimilation", the Russians and Ukrainians never truly did either. That's why Ukraine became independent. They had a different culture than the rest of Russia. Also, following that logic, the CSA has every right in the world to exist, since the North/South cultural split has continued (although to a much lesser extent) from the Civil War to today, and as such the USA has no right to the land.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Going to war with Russia is a stupid idea from a Foreign Policy angle.

[Svatantra Mulukama]

Anyone who understands geopolitics at the most basic level knows that going to war with Russia is a ludicrous idea.

[Roski]

Anyone who understands geopolitics at the most basic level knows that going to war with Russia is a ludicrous idea.

Being a bad idea doesn't make it invalid, however.

[Svatantra Mulukama]

Anyone who understands geopolitics at the most basic level knows that going to war with Russia is a ludicrous idea.

Being a bad idea doesn't make it invalid, however.

I suppose. But, it's still a downright shitty idea.

[Natapoc]

A war with Russia over a disagreement in Putin's leadership style would be among the dumbest things a country could do. Especially if they don't like Putin.

[Sun Wukong]

A war with Russia over a disagreement in Putin's leadership style would be among the dumbest a country could do. Especially if they don't like Putin.

Naw, it's just like when the Royals had Diana assassinated. She was forgotten within a week.

[Infected Mushroom]

Denmark might have a claim to the rest of Scandinavia, I don't know enough about history to say.

Mongols never engaged in enough cultural assimilation to have a cultural claim over most of the lands they may have seized.

Most European empires are disqualified because their conquest is seperated by massive bodies of water. There's just no sense in saying the British have a historical claim over South Africa, its way too far away.

Russia on the other hand, overcomes both obstacles. Hundreds of years of control of the Ukraine and cultural assimilation, they are connected by land and there are a few hundred miles apart (from Moscow).

For the puporses of the law and this doctrine, Russian Empire = Soviet Union = Russia, its the continuation of the same Crown...

No it isn't. The USSR is not the continuation of the Russian Empire. That line was broken, it was destroyed, it was meaningless. The USSR wasn't an empire in the legal sense. As per the Union Treaty of 1922 (treaty that established the USSR), separate Soviet Republics joined together to form the USSR. In theory, the USSR was a compact by the SSR's to form a government, whereas the Russian Empire was a government organized in the opposite manner. And the Soviet Union decreed itself non-existent, nullifying the duties of the SSR's per the Union Treaty.

well, they were all controlled by the Russians

legal technicalities aside, they are basically reincarnations of the same nation no?

[Greater Istanistan]

As long as NATO stops over here in Canuckistan and removes the Party of One - in other words, Harper - I'm game. After all, Putin and Harper are pretty much identical, and lead their nations in nearly identical wats.