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Gamergate, Feminisim, and Journalistic Ethics

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:05 am
by Len Hyet
Alright NSG. Those of us who haven't been living under a rock for the past few weeks will know of Gamergate.

Compilation of better explanations than I can give wrote:Gamergate is something that started a while back when an ex boyfriend of Zoe Quinn, developer of Depression Quest, claimed she had cheated on him, in particular with several people in the gaming journalism spheres, in order to get her game more exposure and positive reviews.

This has not been proven and most likely never will be. Obtaining evidence that would actually prove this is, realistically, something you need a court order for and even then, the agreements spoken of could have never been written down.

So you have 3 sides to this, 1 who insists people are just being sexists and misogynist and that this is just men trying to push their patriarchy agenda, 1 who insists this proves gaming journalism is corrupt to the bone and that these journalists only care about pushing their matriarchy agenda. And then there's the side that doesn't get involved because they feel there is no strong enough evidence to support either side. That it's all a bunch of "he said she said" on both sides.

One could easily make the argument though, that Zoe Quinn handled this badly. When this exploded, her response was to promptly claim that this was just the entire hating women and that's all there's to it.

A few days in, Anita Sarkeesian claimed she had been receiving death threats and had filed a police report for this and was forced to move out of her house because of it. Though when the SFPD was contacted and asked about it, they claimed they had received no such case: Sauce

Other people have promised Anita large amounts of money if she would post a copy of her report online, which she has not done to this day. While Anita now claims that the police didn't believe her. Though there should then still be a report.Sauce


Moot figures in to this after having recently purged almost all his moderators and has forbidden all conversation about GamerGate on 4chan. Here's a summary: moot makes me sad.


Then there's the Fine Young Capitalists. They're involved through Zoe Quinn having orchestrated a negative media campaign. The Fine Young Capitalists are a group of people who wanted to help female game writers and developers financially in the creation of their vision. So the idea was you present your vision for a game and they have some artists that they pay do the art and such, while you code on it. For free. The FYC took care of paying the artists.

Zoe Quinn apparently viewed this as misogynistic oppression, since the women didn't get paid for their work. And she successfully shut them down. That just fuels the fires.

But behind all this is a bigger problem. What this all comes down to is that people are taking the word "feminism" and forgetting the definition. Feminism is supposed to be about equality for women. Which is good. But there are people who call just about everything they do feminism, regardless of context. Including harassing companies and journalists in to only doing certain projects or articles. They bully people and claim it's all good because it's feminism. Why? Because they said so, that's why. And because it is feminism, whatever they did somehow helped the cause of equality for women.

It's being used as a shield to hide behind while doing bad things and a lot of people are sick and tired of it. And the size of GamerGate reflects that.

A lot of people simply don't care about the nuances anymore. They feel marginalized and want that to end. And the only solution they see is by removing that which hinders them completely.


So what do you think NSG? On the one hand, the people sending rape and death threats clearly are in the wrong, there's no two ways about it. Most of these threats have been proven to have been falsified by Anita, as was her police report. On the other hand, there are a lot of people who are using that as an excuse to ignore the bigger problem, that is that complete lack of ethics in Gaming Journalism, and the tendency of "feminist" bloggers to blow any tiny detail in video games completely out of proportion, aka clickbait, and even worse, the massed censorship that has been a uniform reaction to these events.

Edit: I call the censorship and corruption a larger issue because in my mind, the censorship and corruption of a multi million dollar journalistic industry is far more worrying than a few (mostly fake) death threats sent by minors from /b/ with zero intention of carrying them out, and are, to use a quote "just doing it for the lulz"

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:08 am
by The Holy Therns
Oh for the love of fucking creation, not this crap again.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:08 am
by Ashmoria
I think that those who are still talking about this are gossips.

and that we already had a pretty thorough thread on it.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:10 am
by Len Hyet
Ashmoria wrote:I think that those who are still talking about this are gossips.

and that we already had a pretty thorough thread on it.

Did we? I've been out from NSG for a while

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:11 am
by Ashmoria
Len Hyet wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:I think that those who are still talking about this are gossips.

and that we already had a pretty thorough thread on it.

Did we? I've been out from NSG for a while

yeah

it was a fun topic but it really did get talked out.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:12 am
by Alto Mantovano
Len Hyet wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:I think that those who are still talking about this are gossips.

and that we already had a pretty thorough thread on it.

Did we? I've been out from NSG for a while

Haven't noticed it either

Sad end to it though.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:13 am
by The Matthew Islands
Regarding the Fine Young Capitalists. Part of that controversy is that Ms Quinn is alleged to have done the negative campaign against the FYCs event while promoting her own similar event IIRC. Can't sauce ATM, on a dodgy phone connection, but I am pretty sure that was a bit of that particular controversy.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:13 am
by Olivaero
TIL Bad gaming journalism is a bigger problem than rape and death threats.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:17 am
by Len Hyet
Olivaero wrote:TIL Bad gaming journalism is a bigger problem than rape and death threats.

See, this is the kind of shit that makes people not want to address the rape and death threats.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:17 am
by -The Unified Earth Governments-
Oh for fucks sake, here comes the people who know what gamergate is about, and then comes the strawman arguments, and etc, and etc.

OP, do you know what a search function is?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:20 am
by Len Hyet
-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:Oh for fucks sake, here comes the people who know what gamergate is about, and then comes the strawman arguments, and etc, and etc.

OP, do you know what a search function is?

You know I do, and funnily enough when I searched Gamergate, guess what?

There were no comments and no threads that it came up in.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:22 am
by -The Unified Earth Governments-

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:23 am
by Olivaero
Len Hyet wrote:
Olivaero wrote:TIL Bad gaming journalism is a bigger problem than rape and death threats.

See, this is the kind of shit that makes people not want to address the rape and death threats.


You literally
Len Hyet wrote:So what do you think NSG? On the one hand, the people sending rape and death threats clearly are in the wrong, there's no two ways about it. On the other hand, there are a lot of people who are using that as an excuse to ignore the bigger problem, that is that complete lack of ethics in Gaming Journalism, and the tendency of "feminist" bloggers to blow any tiny detail in video games completely out of proportion, aka clickbait.
said this in your OP.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:26 am
by -The Unified Earth Governments-
About the excuse part, that really pissed me off the last time we had this debate when several posters just used strawman arguments to denounce one side as being sexist.

No, the issue isn't about her fucking, at most I wouldn't like it for her to cheat if its true, I don't control that.

Now if she had sex to get favors, thats wrong, but the journalism industry gaming wise is already fucked up.

Now the censorship is what annoys me here.

Thats my issue personally.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:28 am
by Dyakovo

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:33 am
by -The Unified Earth Governments-
Dyakovo wrote:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=309498

Nope, I'm not considering the strawman circle there.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:45 am
by Ifreann
Let's all discuss the allegations of an angry ex against Zoe Quinn, because making video games means her personal life is our business. :roll:

Re: #Gamergate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:46 am
by Terra Sector Union
Sure is alot of drama for a bunch of people that report on video games.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:51 am
by -The Unified Earth Governments-
Terra Sector Union wrote:Sure is alot of drama for a bunch of people that report on video games.

The gaming industry is very valid and important.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:52 am
by Sebtopiaris
Oh dear lord, OP. You really shouldn't have made this thread, but now there's no going back. It looks like round two of this shit has begun.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:54 am
by Sebtopiaris
-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:
Terra Sector Union wrote:Sure is alot of drama for a bunch of people that report on video games.

The gaming industry is very valid and important.

Yes, but that doesn't mean one person performing a normal human function in exchange for better publicity is worthy of anything more than a minor scandal.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:54 am
by Sebtopiaris
Ifreann wrote:Let's all discuss the allegations of an angry ex against Zoe Quinn, because making video games means her personal life is our business. :roll:

Obviously.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:54 am
by -The Unified Earth Governments-
Sebtopiaris wrote:Oh dear lord, OP. You really shouldn't have made this thread, but now there's no going back. It looks like round two of this shit has begun.

Hey Seb, what do you think is more important, the (Not news) Corruption of Gaming Journalism or the censorship?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:55 am
by -The Unified Earth Governments-
Sebtopiaris wrote:
-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:The gaming industry is very valid and important.

Yes, but that doesn't mean one person performing a normal human function in exchange for better publicity is worthy of anything more than a minor scandal.

Not what I am upset about though.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:56 am
by Xsyne
-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:
Sebtopiaris wrote:Oh dear lord, OP. You really shouldn't have made this thread, but now there's no going back. It looks like round two of this shit has begun.

Hey Seb, what do you think is more important, the (Not news) Corruption of Gaming Journalism or the censorship?

What fucking censorship?