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Left Wing and Right Wing - Lets sort this out!

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Martean
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Founded: Aug 08, 2012
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Postby Martean » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:51 am

New Aerios wrote:people who put milk in their coffee


Milk in my coffee in the morning > All
Compass:
Left/Right: -9.00
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.03
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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:51 am

There are many things that separate right from left.

Socially the right is more pro-business and small government. While the left is pro-business they are anti-big corporations and support a stronger government overall. The right is also more pro-status quo than the left who likes social change.

Economically the left is more pro-welfare states than right wing in varying degrees, the right generally supports as little taxes as possible due to the fact that they believe that private purchase parity should be the ideal of business, in varying degrees.

In foreign policy the right is more prone to be war hawks than the left in varying degrees. The left is less militaristic and generally supports humanitarian aid instead and diplomacy in varying degrees.

In immigration the right is more conservative, wanting more regulation and immigration restrictions while the left wants less immigration restrictions but increased security.

The right-left spectrum generally means that people have a mish-mash of opinions that are applied in different situations. For example a right-wing person can be for welfare and humanitarian aid and immigration, but at different levels of comfort for them, and the left-wing person can be for military intervention and pro-business and status quo at differing levels of comfort as well.
Last edited by Soldati Senza Confini on Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

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New Aerios
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Postby New Aerios » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:54 am

Martean wrote:
New Aerios wrote:people who put milk in their coffee


Milk in my coffee in the morning > All


EVIL LEFTIE SCUM GO LIVE IN THE SOVIET UNION IF YOU LOVE COMMIESOCIALISM SO MUCH! OH WAIT IT DOESNT EXIST BECAUSE COMMIESOCIALISM LEFTIE SCUM ARE SHIT AND THEREFORE SO IS MILK IN COFFEE!
-------------------------------I--M--P--E--R--I--V--M----N--O--V--A----A--E--R--I--O--S---------------------------------
"No matter how worthy the cause, it is robbery, theft, and injustice to confiscate the property of one person and give it to another to whom it does not belong"

"Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man."
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Martean
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Postby Martean » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:54 am

Soldati senza confini wrote:There are many things that separate right from left.

Socially the right is more pro-business and small government. While Liberals are pro-business they are anti-big corporations and support a stronger government overall. The right is also more pro-status quo than the left who likes social change.

Economically the left is more pro-welfare states than right wing in varying degrees, the right generally supports as little taxes as possible due to the fact that they believe that private purchase parity should be the ideal of business, in varying degrees.

In foreign policy the right is more prone to be war hawks than the left in varying degrees. The left is less militaristic and generally supports humanitarian aid instead and diplomacy in varying degrees.

In immigration the right is more conservative, wanting

The right-left spectrum generally means that people have a mish-mash of opinions that are applied in different situations. For example a right-wing person can be for welfare and humanitarian aid and immigration, but at different levels of comfort for them, and the left-wing person can be for military intervention and pro-business and status quo at differing levels of comfort as well.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but as you've called 'liberals' left-wing, I must tell you the Democrat Party it's everything except left-wing.

At least in Europe they would be on the liberal right.
Compass:
Left/Right: -9.00
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.03
Spanish, communist
Pro: Democracy, Nationalized economy, socialism, LGTB Rights, Free Speech, Atheism, Inmigration, Direct Democracy
Anti: Dictatorship, Fascism, Social-democracy, Social Liberalism, Neoliberalism, Nationalism, Racism, Xenophobia, Homophobia.
''When you have an imaginary friend, you're crazy, but when many people have the same imaginary friend, it's called religion''

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Martean
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Founded: Aug 08, 2012
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Postby Martean » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:55 am

New Aerios wrote:
Martean wrote:
Milk in my coffee in the morning > All


EVIL LEFTIE SCUM GO LIVE IN THE SOVIET UNION IF YOU LOVE COMMIESOCIALISM SO MUCH! OH WAIT IT DOESNT EXIST BECAUSE COMMIESOCIALISM LEFTIE SCUM ARE SHIT AND THEREFORE SO IS MILK IN COFFEE!


I'm commie and proud of it :3
Compass:
Left/Right: -9.00
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.03
Spanish, communist
Pro: Democracy, Nationalized economy, socialism, LGTB Rights, Free Speech, Atheism, Inmigration, Direct Democracy
Anti: Dictatorship, Fascism, Social-democracy, Social Liberalism, Neoliberalism, Nationalism, Racism, Xenophobia, Homophobia.
''When you have an imaginary friend, you're crazy, but when many people have the same imaginary friend, it's called religion''

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Koopaville
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Founded: Jul 26, 2014
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Postby Koopaville » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:56 am

I'm a hardcore right-winger on all issues bar religion.

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:58 am

Martean wrote:
Soldati senza confini wrote:There are many things that separate right from left.

Socially the right is more pro-business and small government. While Liberals are pro-business they are anti-big corporations and support a stronger government overall. The right is also more pro-status quo than the left who likes social change.

Economically the left is more pro-welfare states than right wing in varying degrees, the right generally supports as little taxes as possible due to the fact that they believe that private purchase parity should be the ideal of business, in varying degrees.

In foreign policy the right is more prone to be war hawks than the left in varying degrees. The left is less militaristic and generally supports humanitarian aid instead and diplomacy in varying degrees.

In immigration the right is more conservative, wanting

The right-left spectrum generally means that people have a mish-mash of opinions that are applied in different situations. For example a right-wing person can be for welfare and humanitarian aid and immigration, but at different levels of comfort for them, and the left-wing person can be for military intervention and pro-business and status quo at differing levels of comfort as well.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but as you've called 'liberals' left-wing, I must tell you the Democrat Party it's everything except left-wing.

At least in Europe they would be on the liberal right.


Slip of the tongue :p

But no, the Democratic Party of the United States is still right-wing, and pretty much bent in right-wing politics. They are just more towards the center of the political spectrum than right-wing religious Republicans.
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Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Distruzionopolis
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Postby Distruzionopolis » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:16 am

It means false dichotomy.

Ubermensch Paragon that defines Democracy
cultural tradition, communitarianism, vertical collectivism, personalism, market localism, federalism, toryism
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance - H.L. Mencken
"Egalitarianism... is incompatible with the idea of private property. Private property implies exclusivity, inequality, and difference." - Hans Herman Hoppe

Knowledge is not power; power is, instead, knowledge applied.

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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:08 am

Distruzionopolis wrote:It means false dichotomy.

Not really.
Conscentia wrote:[An] understanding of the history behind the left-right scale helps one to understand it and why it is how it is.

The terms "left" and "right" appeared during the French Revolution when members of the National Assembly divided into supporters of the king to the president's right and supporters of the revolution to his left.
When the National Assembly was replaced in 1791 by a Legislative Assembly composed of entirely new members, the divisions continued. "Innovators" sat on the left, "moderates" gathered in the centre, while the "conscientious defenders of the constitution" found themselves sitting on the right, where the defenders of the Ancien Régime had previously gathered.

Effectively, once the terms ceased to be more than a mere reference to seating position, the scale became the equivalent of our modern progressive-conservative-reactionary scale. The terms evolved as the scale became more nuanced reflecting the ideological views of the those who came to be on the left and those who came to be on the right. The left became associated with ideas related to egalitarian political ideas, which the right became associated with political ideas that favoured maintaining or strengthening the social hierarchy, such as monarchism.

Left-right spectrum disassociated with the progressive-conservative-reactionary scale as what constituted progressivism, conservatism, and reactionism changed over time (when progressives achieve their goals, those goals cease to be progressive as they become part of the status quo and enter the domain of conservatism. Similarly the status quo conservatives sought to preserve became the status quo ante, and ideas such as monarchist absolutism became reactionary).

Left-right became our modern political anarchy-hierarchy scale by retaining the old associations with egalitarianism & socialism at the left end and elitism & capitalism at the right end.
Last edited by Conscentia on Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Distruzionopolis
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Postby Distruzionopolis » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:10 am

Conscentia wrote:
Distruzionopolis wrote:It means false dichotomy.

Not really.
Conscentia wrote:[An] understanding of the history behind the left-right scale helps one to understand it and why it is how it is.

The terms "left" and "right" appeared during the French Revolution when members of the National Assembly divided into supporters of the king to the president's right and supporters of the revolution to his left.
When the National Assembly was replaced in 1791 by a Legislative Assembly composed of entirely new members, the divisions continued. "Innovators" sat on the left, "moderates" gathered in the centre, while the "conscientious defenders of the constitution" found themselves sitting on the right, where the defenders of the Ancien Régime had previously gathered.

Effectively, once the terms ceased to be more than a mere reference to seating position, the scale became the equivalent of our modern progressive-conservative-reactionary scale. The terms evolved as the scale became more nuanced reflecting the ideological views of the those who came to be on the left and those who came to be on the right. The left became associated with ideas related to egalitarian political ideas, which the right became associated with political ideas that favoured maintaining or strengthening the social hierarchy, such as monarchism.

Left-right spectrum disassociated with the progressive-conservative-reactionary scale as what constituted progressivism, conservatism, and reactionism changed over time (when progressives achieve their goals, those goals cease to be progressive as they become part of the status quo and enter the domain of conservatism. Similarly the status quo conservatives sought to preserve became the status quo ante, and ideas such as monarchist absolutism became reactionary).

Left-right became our modern political anarchy-hierarchy scale by retaining the old associations with egalitarianism & socialism at the left end and elitism & capitalism at the right end.


Indeed. But your comment doesn't counter my comment.

Ubermensch Paragon that defines Democracy
cultural tradition, communitarianism, vertical collectivism, personalism, market localism, federalism, toryism
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance - H.L. Mencken
"Egalitarianism... is incompatible with the idea of private property. Private property implies exclusivity, inequality, and difference." - Hans Herman Hoppe

Knowledge is not power; power is, instead, knowledge applied.


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Allentyr
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Postby Allentyr » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:19 am

I'm a left leaning Centrist.

I mostly disagree on banning guns, relaxed immigration, banning the death penalty and the whole "Less military, bitches!" thing with lefts.

I disagree with most right wing things, except for the things mentioned above.
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Distruzionopolis
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Postby Distruzionopolis » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:23 am

Conscentia wrote:
Distruzionopolis wrote:Indeed. But your comment doesn't counter my comment.

Egalitarianism vs elitism is not a false dichotomy.


.... well, when phrased that way I can concede.

Ubermensch Paragon that defines Democracy
cultural tradition, communitarianism, vertical collectivism, personalism, market localism, federalism, toryism
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance - H.L. Mencken
"Egalitarianism... is incompatible with the idea of private property. Private property implies exclusivity, inequality, and difference." - Hans Herman Hoppe

Knowledge is not power; power is, instead, knowledge applied.

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Naedor
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Postby Naedor » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:45 pm

The definition of the two political wings is all about social class. The left seeks to reduce how many classes there are and create and equal society, while the right seeks to create more classes and establish/maintain a rigid hierarchy.
"Communism is great in theory but doesn't work in practice" is a lie propagated by the right-wing to discredit us, as they discredit everyone that threatens their precious hierarchy.

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Lalaki
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Postby Lalaki » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:47 pm

Left wing? Right wing?

I choose the way of the third.
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Naedor
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Postby Naedor » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:47 pm

New Aerios wrote:
Martean wrote:
Milk in my coffee in the morning > All


EVIL LEFTIE SCUM GO LIVE IN THE SOVIET UNION IF YOU LOVE COMMIESOCIALISM SO MUCH! OH WAIT IT DOESNT EXIST BECAUSE COMMIESOCIALISM LEFTIE SCUM ARE SHIT AND THEREFORE SO IS MILK IN COFFEE!


Actually, the Soviet Union broke up because some "leftie scum" wanted to make it a more liveable place but the right wing elements that wanted to maintain the Party's dominion kick him out, and then the people, sick of a right-wing regime masquerading as a left wing one wanted it gone for a more honest regime. Not that they got one.
"Communism is great in theory but doesn't work in practice" is a lie propagated by the right-wing to discredit us, as they discredit everyone that threatens their precious hierarchy.

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Anglo-California
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Postby Anglo-California » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:16 pm

Lalaki wrote:Left wing? Right wing?

I choose the way of the third.


Not the position of the third? :p
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The Stalker
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Postby The Stalker » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:20 am

I think the whole Left Wing / Right Wing isn't a good political dynamic we rely on. Let's face it, in the US both parties are just two sides of the same coin.

The Conservative party is for the rich, while tricking the uneducated and poor into voting against their best interests. Then democrats comes across as the working mans party with good intentions, but fails to deliver anything because they're just as much puppets as the right winged politicians are.

Democracy's a joke. The masses are too easily corrupted. Your politicians are bought and their souls paid for.

I say forget debating left / right, and declare me King of Earth, i'll do a better job than your current leaders.

^Most realistic solution I can think of. ;)
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Free State Northland
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Postby Free State Northland » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:13 am

It's not about left-wing or right-wing. It's about Anarchy vs Totalitarianism.
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National Socialist Republics of Europe
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Postby National Socialist Republics of Europe » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:03 am

Left: Welfare, Republicanism, Secularism, responsible Nationalism, scientific and technological development; preservation and optimization of the Race.

Right: Individualism, Liberalism, Monarchism, Traditionalism, Imperialism, Theocracy.
Last edited by National Socialist Republics of Europe on Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Republic of Coldwater
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Postby Republic of Coldwater » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:05 am

National Socialist Republics of Europe wrote:Left: Welfare, Republicanism, Secularism, responsible Nationalism, scientific and technological development; preservation and optimization of the Race.

Right: Individualism, Liberalism, Monarchism, Traditionalism, Imperialism, Theocracy.

Interesting that you put Republicanism to the left when the right (at least in America) advocates for Republicanism, and the right also does support scientific and technological development, especially on the military front.

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Immoren
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Postby Immoren » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:08 am

Republic of Coldwater wrote:
National Socialist Republics of Europe wrote:Left: Welfare, Republicanism, Secularism, responsible Nationalism, scientific and technological development; preservation and optimization of the Race.

Right: Individualism, Liberalism, Monarchism, Traditionalism, Imperialism, Theocracy.

Interesting that you put Republicanism to the left when the right (at least in America) advocates for Republicanism, and the right also does support scientific and technological development, especially on the military front.


Usually left favours republicanism over monarchism
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National Socialist Republics of Europe
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Postby National Socialist Republics of Europe » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:08 am

Republic of Coldwater wrote:
National Socialist Republics of Europe wrote:Left: Welfare, Republicanism, Secularism, responsible Nationalism, scientific and technological development; preservation and optimization of the Race.

Right: Individualism, Liberalism, Monarchism, Traditionalism, Imperialism, Theocracy.

Interesting that you put Republicanism to the left when the right (at least in America) advocates for Republicanism, and the right also does support scientific and technological development, especially on the military front.


In the USA these categories have particular and different meanings.
I was referring to the general global view of the Right-Left dicotomy.
Pro: Nationalism, Socialism, Republicanism, Positivism, Secularism, Transhumanism, Islam, Venezuela, Iran, Palestine, Ukraine.

Against: Liberalism, Marxism, Gender Equality, Monarchy, USA, UK, Israel, Russia.

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Republic of Coldwater
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Postby Republic of Coldwater » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:10 am

Immoren wrote:
Republic of Coldwater wrote:Interesting that you put Republicanism to the left when the right (at least in America) advocates for Republicanism, and the right also does support scientific and technological development, especially on the military front.


Usually left favours republicanism over monarchism

So the US Constitution Party, UKIP, FDP and many other parties are pro-monarchy?

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National Socialist Republics of Europe
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Postby National Socialist Republics of Europe » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:12 am

Republic of Coldwater wrote:
Immoren wrote:
Usually left favours republicanism over monarchism

So the US Constitution Party, UKIP, FDP and many other parties are pro-monarchy?


Republicanism was born in the Left during the Enlightment Period. Then it was gradually accepted also by the moderate liberal right.
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