NationStates

Some Communists such as Guy Hocquenghem have argued that homosexuality is "one of the effects of capitalist sociality" and in the old Soviet Block countries there was a very negative view of homosexuality, (in the Soviet Union it was commonly equated with pedophilia). Others such as the CPUSA have argued that the liberation of gays is a key issue that Marxists must grapple with. As NS tends to be more in favour of gay rights than against it, I was curious as to how the Marxists, Stalinists, Marxist-Leninists, Leninists, Trotskyists, etc., here would weigh up homosexuality according to their ideology. As what some of you would call a 'Zubatovist' I am intrigued with Socialism and Communism.

I'm personally completely in favour of gay rights, as I know many homosexuals and I see no reason why their relationships should be treated as lesser than those of heterosexual couples. So Socialists and Communists, what is your opinion of homosexuality and gay rights?

Let them marry etc. Denying people rights based on their sexuality is just as stupid as denying rights based on sex or race. I think you'll find that the vast majority of leftists will agree with me.

What is your take on it?

While I'm not a Marxist per se, I don't really care about homosexuals, in the way that I don't think about their sexual orientation. What two consenting people do together, preferably in private, is really none of my business. Unless I'm one of the persons.

Considering I am Bisexual, I am in favor of gay rights and equal marriage rights

No problem with Homosexuals, they deserve all the same rights as Heterosexuals do, let them marry etc. To deny people rights based on stupid things such as what their sexual preference is... well stupid.

Vistulange wrote:While I'm not a Marxist per se, I don't really care about homosexuals, in the way that I don't think about their sexual orientation. What two consenting people do together, preferably in private, is really none of my business. Unless I'm one of the persons.

This is, more or less, my opinion. It's neither mine, nor the governments, business.

As a Social Democrat, I would like to weigh in.

I don't care about homosexuality as an issue. If you want to marry somebody, you should be allowed, as long as it is mutually consenting. The Church/reactionary politicians has no right to tell people that they have no right to marry somebody of their choice.
It's a bit rich for the church to claim issues of "morality" considering their own history of sexual abuse amongst members of the clergy.

Cedoria wrote:As a Social Democrat, I would like to weigh in.

I don't care about homosexuality as an issue. If you want to marry somebody, you should be allowed, as long as it is mutually consenting. The Church/reactionary politicians has no right to tell people that they have no right to marry somebody of their choice.
It's a bit rich for the church to claim issues of "morality" considering their own history of sexual abuse amongst members of the clergy.

This thread is about homophobia from Socialists/Communists though, not the church.

I guess that in the setting the OP is likely thinking of, Left Wing Alliance would count as communist or socialist, but the party is one of the most accepting ones of LGBT people, and if you ask me specifically, gay people are just people, like anyone else of whatever orientation. As always, what I think of someone, it depends on the person and my interactions with them.

The arguments that the socialists of the past used against Homosexuality wouldn't really stand up in modern day and if they were alive now they would almost certainly class LGBT individuals as natural allys of the working class, being oppressed people after all in much of the world. Of course Capitalist LGBT individuals would get as much derision as Cis-gendered Hetero Capitalists. Because Class is ultimately the most important thing in the struggle according to basically every socialist writer, the reason as far as I can gather that Homosexuality was critiqued by them was because it was seen as a luxury for the rich to pursue something that obviously isn't true today.

Greater Beggnig wrote:Some Communists such as Guy Hocquenghem have argued that homosexuality is "one of the effects of capitalist sociality" and in the old Soviet Block countries there was a very negative view of homosexuality, (in the Soviet Union it was commonly equated with pedophilia). Others such as the CPUSA have argued that the liberation of gays is a key issue that Marxists must grapple with. As NS tends to be more in favour of gay rights than against it, I was curious as to how the Marxists, Stalinists, Marxist-Leninists, Leninists, Trotskyists, etc., here would weigh up homosexuality according to their ideology. As what some of you would call a 'Zubatovist' I am intrigued with Socialism and Communism.

I'm personally completely in favour of gay rights, as I know many homosexuals and I see no reason why their relationships should be treated as lesser than those of heterosexual couples. So Socialists and Communists, what is your opinion of homosexuality and gay rights?

is this their current position?

Ashmoria wrote:

Greater Beggnig wrote:Some Communists such as Guy Hocquenghem have argued that homosexuality is "one of the effects of capitalist sociality" and in the old Soviet Block countries there was a very negative view of homosexuality, (in the Soviet Union it was commonly equated with pedophilia). Others such as the CPUSA have argued that the liberation of gays is a key issue that Marxists must grapple with. As NS tends to be more in favour of gay rights than against it, I was curious as to how the Marxists, Stalinists, Marxist-Leninists, Leninists, Trotskyists, etc., here would weigh up homosexuality according to their ideology. As what some of you would call a 'Zubatovist' I am intrigued with Socialism and Communism.

I'm personally completely in favour of gay rights, as I know many homosexuals and I see no reason why their relationships should be treated as lesser than those of heterosexual couples. So Socialists and Communists, what is your opinion of homosexuality and gay rights?

is this their current position?

It depends on the Commie in question.

EDIT:
For example, there are many people in Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, etc., who are still advocates of the Soviet system, as well as its anti-gay stances.

They're human like everyone else, so why shouldn't they get rights?

They make just as good a serf as anyone else. As long as they meet their production quotas, their sexual orientation need not come into question.

Greater Beggnig wrote:For example, there are many people in Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, etc., who are still advocates of the Soviet system, as well as its anti-gay stances.

Not surprising, just like there are gay Republicans, gay Nazis, gay religious fundamentalists...one's sexual orientation doesn't determine one's political beliefs.

They're fine.

Greater Beggnig wrote:

Ashmoria wrote:
is this their current position?

It depends on the Commie in question.

EDIT:
For example, there are many people in Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, etc., who are still advocates of the Soviet system, as well as its anti-gay stances.

are those people considered big time communist/socialist thinkers?

I don't know why any modern communist would care what some guy thought about homosexuality if that opinion was expressed more than 20 years ago. the farther back you go the more it was the thinking of "everyone" at the time, communist or not. it amounts to nothing more than ideological justification of a non-political rejection of something they didn't really understand but thought was yucky.

if there are current communist thinkers who still think that being gay or accepting gay rights is somehow counterrevolutionary and advocate that all communist/socialists should be anti-gay rights, then we can talk. otherwise its a relic of the past just like any other anti-gay politician.

Baltenstein wrote:

Greater Beggnig wrote:For example, there are many people in Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, etc., who are still advocates of the Soviet system, as well as its anti-gay stances.

Not surprising, just like there are gay Republicans, gay Nazis, gay religious fundamentalists...one's sexual orientation doesn't determine one's political beliefs.

polgbt amirite?

I'm a Marxist-Leninist, I support LGBT rights, on the basis that what people do in their own bedrooms doesn't affect anything on economics.

Live and let live.

Ashmoria wrote:

Greater Beggnig wrote:
It depends on the Commie in question.

EDIT:
For example, there are many people in Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, etc., who are still advocates of the Soviet system, as well as its anti-gay stances.

are those people considered big time communist/socialist thinkers?

I don't know why any modern communist would care what some guy thought about homosexuality if that opinion was expressed more than 20 years ago. the farther back you go the more it was the thinking of "everyone" at the time, communist or not. it amounts to nothing more than ideological justification of a non-political rejection of something they didn't really understand but thought was yucky.

if there are current communist thinkers who still think that being gay or accepting gay rights is somehow counterrevolutionary and advocate that all communist/socialists should be anti-gay rights, then we can talk. otherwise its a relic of the past just like any other anti-gay politician.

^This. Lots of people make a bigger deal of the USSR being negative toward homosexuality than many countries are now. At the time, just about the entire world considered it a mental illness.

I don't know if I qualify as any of those groups of people, but I have nothing against homosexuals. They're humans just like us, just their lifestyle is a little more different.

Destiny Island wrote:They're human like everyone else, so why shouldn't they get rights?

This.

Destiny Island wrote:

Baltenstein wrote:
Not surprising, just like there are gay Republicans, gay Nazis, gay religious fundamentalists...one's sexual orientation doesn't determine one's political beliefs.

polgbt amirite?

Have you ever heard of GASH, the Gay Aryan SkinHeads?
They have sex within their members, mainly BDSM based stuff, not really surprising.
http://www.vice.com/read/meet-russias-g ... nazi-world