What was History's Greatest Empire?

[Hanging Garden]

The idea that there is/was a greater empire is somewhat ridiculous. It all depends on what criteria you judge an empire by. Do you mean by size? By achievement? Do we vilify an empire for its atrocities? There are too many empires in the past, in too many centuries and sectors of history, to judge and to assign the title of the "greatest" empire. Also, what even counts as an empire? By the amount of land it has seized? Or its existing land? Britain, for example, is technically a tiny country but controlled a quarter of the world by the end of World War One, whereas the Russia on its own has such large land mass on its own without an empire. So, in answer to the question, I don't know. There is too much to take into account to decide.

[New Decius]

Clearly the obvious choice is obvious: America. The other options available in the poll are not America. Therefore they cannot be the obvious choice, obviously. America is the onlyest choice because it's just so obvious. America. Say it with me. America is the greatest empire in history. How do we know this? Because Americans are told this is true every goddamned day of the year by every political persuasion throughout the land. We're all told this is true but reminded that, although America is the greatest nation, and has every and any right to impose her will upon any and every not American nation throughout the world, she is not an empire. Ergo, America is, obviously, the greatest empire in history and, simultaneously, the greatest not empire in history.

America is not the greatest nation, not the greatest empire, never has been an empire, and will likely never be one.

[New Decius]

There I added China.

[The Archregimancy]

Prussia existed between 1701 and 1918. Or at least as a Region it did. As a nation it was more like between 1701 and 1870 since that was around the time Germany began to unify.

Both halves of this statement are inaccurate.

Prussia is historically attested as a region (and as a Baltic pre-German ethnicity) at least as far back as the 11th century.

The Duchy of Prussia - the direct predecessor of the later Prussian Kingdom - was founded in 1525 when Albert of Prussia, last Grand Master of the Teutonic Knights, turned the core territories of the Knights into a secular principality after converting to Lutheranism. Albert belonged to a cadet branch of the Hohenzollern family, who had been rulers of Brandenburg since the 15th century.

Brandenburg-Prussia was founded in 1618 when the two parts of the Hohenzollern dominions were united when John Sigismund, Elector of Brandenburg, also inherited the Duchy of Prussia.

1701 was the year that John Sigismund's great-grandson Frederick III [of Brandenburg] & I [of Prussia] declared the Kingdom of Prussia, but this was an elevation of the status of the existing Duchy of Prussia within Brandenburg-Prussia rather than the foundation of a new state.


Note that I've deliberately avoided the whole issue of 'King in Prussia' v. 'King of Prussia'

[Sdaeriji]

Ottoman is the greatest Islamic empire in the world. The largest as well, at its greatest extent and the peak of its period.

Ottoman Empire at its peak:

Abbasid Caliphate at its peak:

Conclusion:

The Abbasid Caliphate was larger at its peak than the Ottoman Empire; the Ottoman Empire was therefore not the largest Islamic empire in history.

The Umayyad Caliphate was larger still.

[Benian Republic]

The Empire of Mankind British Empire.

The evil empire

[The Archregimancy]

The Umayyad Caliphate was larger still.

True enough - and I openly acknowledge that in a subsequent post.

But then I wasn't trying to claim that the Abbasid Caliphate was the largest Islamic empire in history, merely demonstrating that the Ottoman Empire wasn't.

[Buse]

.

Prussia is historically attested as a region (and as a Slavic pre-German ethnicity) at least as far back as the 11th century.

Old Prussia was not Slavic. It was related to the Baltic group.

[The Archregimancy]

.

Prussia is historically attested as a region (and as a Slavic pre-German ethnicity) at least as far back as the 11th century.

Old Prussia was not Slavic. It was related to the Baltic group.

You're entirely correct; I'll go back and correct that.

[Buse]

Old Prussia was not Slavic. It was related to the Baltic group.

You're entirely correct; I'll go back and correct that.

It is ok. To be fair the Baltic and Slavic groups have the same origin and it would be interesting to know much were actually different in the 11th century.

Also not sure do Hannover counts as part of the British empire since it was in a personal union with the British monarchs.

[Oaledonia]

Clearly the obvious choice is obvious: America. The other options available in the poll are not America. Therefore they cannot be the obvious choice, obviously. America is the onlyest choice because it's just so obvious. America. Say it with me. America is the greatest empire in history. How do we know this? Because Americans are told this is true every goddamned day of the year by every political persuasion throughout the land. We're all told this is true but reminded that, although America is the greatest nation, and has every and any right to impose her will upon any and every not American nation throughout the world, she is not an empire. Ergo, America is, obviously, the greatest empire in history and, simultaneously, the greatest not empire in history.

America is not the greatest nation, not the greatest empire, never has been an empire, and will likely never be one.

Thank god America is above becoming an empire. Such a great nation shouldn't slide into such evilness.

[Kiruri]

...

[Oaledonia]

Also OP, the Washington Naval Treaty was signed in 1922. Hardly the "mid 1900s" power you claim. Certainly by 1935, Japan and the US had vastly more capable navies.

[Themiclesia]

I have voted for China, as I consider it the most long-standing power culturally and economically that the world has seen.

And please don't embarrass yourselves by comparing China to Europe; they don't compare. China is not a continent.

[Napkiraly]

The Empire of Mankind British Empire.

The evil empire

Lol wut?

[Themiclesia]

Lol

Sure

Did Austria-Hungary? Did the Ottoman Empire? Did Persia? Did Russia? You don't have to be maritime to be an empire.

For goodness sake, Nimitz got a super carrier named after him! Nelson is perhaps the most famous Admiral ever! Jellicoe won the Battle of Jutland! Yamamoto planned Pearl Harbor! Hipper commanded the High Seas Fleet!

Britain did, as did Rome, Prussia, France, Spain and numerous others. China is not an empire I tell you. Usually Empire's occupy more than just their home nation.

Between the late 1300s and late 1800s China held political sway over Korea; is that good enough for you?

And China, as you said, doesn't have a conventional emperor by the European sense, which is from the Latin term imperator, or "commander, leader"; the emperors of China went by tien-tzu or later huang-ti, meaning respectively "son of heaven/god" and "the august god". The latter is from the amalgamation of the "three august [kings]" and "five godlike [kings]" in protohistoric China. Neither term inherently defines the Chinese emperor's role in commanding other nations, but indeed he is conceived as the highest of all the kings of the world, who are regarded to have divine providence. Hence, it is reasonable to say that both titles are derivatives of the mystique surrounding the emperor's supposed divine origin, instead of any temporal authority, such as the Roman conception of imperator, as literally "commander".

A concept more similar to the Roman sense of imperator may be the Chinese title of "chun" (君), which literally means the comptroller by connotation of food, and hence sustenance.

[New Decius]

Also OP, the Washington Naval Treaty was signed in 1922. Hardly the "mid 1900s" power you claim. Certainly by 1935, Japan and the US had vastly more capable navies.

Depends on your meaning of capable. The United States Navy between 1935-1941 was actually technologically inferior to the Japanese Navy and even the German Kriegsmarine, which despite its size at the time was still the most technologically advanced naval force in the world until 1942-1943.

[Themiclesia]

despite its size

Wasn't it inflated to an illegal extent?

[Oaledonia]

Also OP, the Washington Naval Treaty was signed in 1922. Hardly the "mid 1900s" power you claim. Certainly by 1935, Japan and the US had vastly more capable navies.

Depends on your meaning of capable. The United States Navy between 1935-1941 was actually technologically inferior to the Japanese Navy and even the German Kriegsmarine, which despite its size at the time was still the most technologically advanced naval force in the world until 1942-1943.

That's false.
By 1935 there was no question that the IJN had the best naval tactics and technology. Bismarck was a joke compared to Mutsu, Nagato, Ise or Hyuuga. They invented the modern destroyer and had the most formidable carrier force.

[South Lebanon Army]

Britain.

[Monkeykind]

A whole bunch of empires are missing :/ Where's Spain, for example?

Spain. Austria-Hungary. Nazi Germany. These are just some of the empires missing.

[South Aztlan]

Where's Egypt????

[Monkeykind]

Where's Egypt????

Several empires are missing.

[Distruzio]

Clearly the obvious choice is obvious: America. The other options available in the poll are not America. Therefore they cannot be the obvious choice, obviously. America is the onlyest choice because it's just so obvious. America. Say it with me. America is the greatest empire in history. How do we know this? Because Americans are told this is true every goddamned day of the year by every political persuasion throughout the land. We're all told this is true but reminded that, although America is the greatest nation, and has every and any right to impose her will upon any and every not American nation throughout the world, she is not an empire. Ergo, America is, obviously, the greatest empire in history and, simultaneously, the greatest not empire in history.

America is not the greatest nation, not the greatest empire, never has been an empire, and will likely never be one.

Hate to break it to you.... but.... saying "nuh-uh" doesn't change facts.

[Napkiraly]

Where's Egypt????

Meh, Akkad was better.