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Is fascism compatible with capitalism?

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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:31 pm

Unless it's state capitalism, then no.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

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Vashtanaraada
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Postby Vashtanaraada » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:32 pm

Poseidon Divison wrote:
Vashtanaraada wrote:Why are people having to refer to sources just to say that both Stalin and Hitler were at the head of murderous regimes?



Don't forget Mao and Pol Pot

aye, they were terrible too
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AGAINST - Fascism/ Capitalism/ Conservatism/ Militarism/ Racism/ Homophobia/ Oligarchy/ Monarchy/ Hierarchy/ Austerity/ Dictatorships/ Leninism/ Privatisation/ Stereotypes/ Nuclear Weaponry.

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Degenerate Heart of HetRio
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Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:32 pm

Vashtanaraada wrote:You've never met a Left-Communist, have you?
I'm no common Leninist mate.
I don't support the Soviets and their associates.

We had one of them, but he became a social democrat.

BTW, I don't see him for a long time.
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:32 pm

Vashtanaraada wrote:
Poseidon Divison wrote:

>Implying

Salazar didn't need to go and invade other countries during his rule

I find it kinda funny how a >communist is saying this when they fail to look at their own history. Also >Implying Fascism and National Socialism is the same thing.

Now with Fascism, Often people do not realize the difference between various fascist regimes throughout history people often put "Aryan Standards" under the Fascist label- - This is incredibly wrong, for even the second most famous fascist regime (the original one I dare say)- The Italian Fascism- had NO standards regarding the Aryan race, at all. Salazar and Franco's Regime didn't either.

Keep trying red.

Unless you are oblivious to how resource distribution works in North Korea or USSR (at some point China too before going lolcapitalistcommie), this is pretty straight forward. There is an intentional technological and life-condition halt across the territory as to keep the populace at bare minimal. Resources are abundantly pumped into the Capital while the rest get... well you know about the starvations across soviet states and korean villages.
This form of organization is typical of applied Communism.



You've never met a Left-Communist, have you?
I'm no common Leninist mate.
I don't support the Soviets and their associates.

Left-Communists?
:lol2:
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Vashtanaraada
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Postby Vashtanaraada » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:32 pm

Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:
Vashtanaraada wrote:You've never met a Left-Communist, have you?
I'm no common Leninist mate.
I don't support the Soviets and their associates.

We had one of them, but he became a social democrat.

BTW, I don't see him for a long time.


Bloody revisionists, he'll probably become a centre-left liberal next
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FOR - Democratic Socialism/ Classical Marxism/ Trade-Unionism/ Pro-Choice/ Anti-Nationalism/ Revolution/ Direct Democracy/ Internationalism/ Soft Drugs/ L.G.B.T Rights/ Ecologism/ Gender Equality.

AGAINST - Fascism/ Capitalism/ Conservatism/ Militarism/ Racism/ Homophobia/ Oligarchy/ Monarchy/ Hierarchy/ Austerity/ Dictatorships/ Leninism/ Privatisation/ Stereotypes/ Nuclear Weaponry.

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The Serbian Empire
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:33 pm

Blazedtown wrote:Fascism is an early industrial era alternative to Capitalism, which much the other competing alternative, communism, failed utterly and led to some of the most despotic and horrible regimes in history. Both are dead ideologies consigned to the history books as failures.

And for good reason. Despotic regimes aren't exactly popular.
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Degenerate Heart of HetRio
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Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:33 pm

Meryuma wrote:
Arkolon wrote:To show you how nonsensical your logical fallacy is.

I've heard plenty of capitalism claim that only laissez-faire capitalism is "real capitalism" unironically.

Yep.
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

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Degenerate Heart of HetRio
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Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:33 pm

Vashtanaraada wrote:Bloody revisionists, he'll probably become a centre-left liberal next

Meh, the far left of social democracy isn't that bad.
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

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Neo Rome Republic
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Postby Neo Rome Republic » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:33 pm

Murkwood wrote:Unless it's state capitalism, then no.

Private property and enterprise exist in Fascism. An tenet of Fascism is a Mixed-Economy, which has Capitalism.
Ethical and Metaphysical: (Pan) Humanist and Naturalist.
Political Views Sum: Centrist on social issues, Market Socialist on economic, and Radical Civic universalist on political governance.
This nation DOES(for most part) represent my OOC views.
''A rich man complaining about regulation and taxes, is like the drunkard at a party, complaining about not having enough to drink.'',

"An empty mind is a mind without a filter, the mind of a gullible fool. A closed mind is the mind unwilling to look at the reality outside its bubble. An open mind is one that is cautious, flexible yet balanced; looking at both the reality and the possibility."
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Vashtanaraada
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Postby Vashtanaraada » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:34 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Vashtanaraada wrote:

You've never met a Left-Communist, have you?
I'm no common Leninist mate.
I don't support the Soviets and their associates.

Left-Communists?
:lol2:


We've got a better reputation than you.
At least we had Rosa Luxemburg and Sylvia Pankhurst
19 Year Old Male, British (Scouser), Bassist, plays Heavy Metal + Hard Rock
Apatheist, Ex-Smoker and Ex-Stoner, Bi-Curious, ENFP Personality Type
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FOR - Democratic Socialism/ Classical Marxism/ Trade-Unionism/ Pro-Choice/ Anti-Nationalism/ Revolution/ Direct Democracy/ Internationalism/ Soft Drugs/ L.G.B.T Rights/ Ecologism/ Gender Equality.

AGAINST - Fascism/ Capitalism/ Conservatism/ Militarism/ Racism/ Homophobia/ Oligarchy/ Monarchy/ Hierarchy/ Austerity/ Dictatorships/ Leninism/ Privatisation/ Stereotypes/ Nuclear Weaponry.

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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:34 pm

NEO Rome Republic wrote:
Murkwood wrote:Unless it's state capitalism, then no.

Private property and enterprise exist in Fascism. An tenet of Fascism is a Mixed-Economy, which has Capitalism.

An tenet of Fascism is a Mixed-Economy,


Says who?
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Vashtanaraada
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Postby Vashtanaraada » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:34 pm

Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:
Vashtanaraada wrote:Bloody revisionists, he'll probably become a centre-left liberal next

Meh, the far left of social democracy isn't that bad.


It's not, but drifters are still drifters
Last edited by Vashtanaraada on Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
19 Year Old Male, British (Scouser), Bassist, plays Heavy Metal + Hard Rock
Apatheist, Ex-Smoker and Ex-Stoner, Bi-Curious, ENFP Personality Type
University Student and Member of The Labour Party (United Kingdom)
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-6.00 Social
FOR - Democratic Socialism/ Classical Marxism/ Trade-Unionism/ Pro-Choice/ Anti-Nationalism/ Revolution/ Direct Democracy/ Internationalism/ Soft Drugs/ L.G.B.T Rights/ Ecologism/ Gender Equality.

AGAINST - Fascism/ Capitalism/ Conservatism/ Militarism/ Racism/ Homophobia/ Oligarchy/ Monarchy/ Hierarchy/ Austerity/ Dictatorships/ Leninism/ Privatisation/ Stereotypes/ Nuclear Weaponry.

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Estado Nacional
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Postby Estado Nacional » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:35 pm

The Serbian Empire wrote:
Blazedtown wrote:Fascism is an early industrial era alternative to Capitalism, which much the other competing alternative, communism, failed utterly and led to some of the most despotic and horrible regimes in history. Both are dead ideologies consigned to the history books as failures.

And for good reason. Despotic regimes aren't exactly popular.


That's not exactly a rule. Ever heard of Juan Perón? Hell, even Putin might qualify as "popular despot".
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:35 pm

Vashtanaraada wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:Left-Communists?
:lol2:


We've got a better reputation than you.
At least we had Rosa Luxemburg and Sylvia Pankhurst

Reputation doesn't count for much; theory is everything.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. Religious communitarian with Sorelian, Marxist, and Traditionalist influences. Sympathies toward Sunni Islam. All flags/avatars are chosen for aesthetic or humor purposes only
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

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The Serbian Empire
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:36 pm

Estado Nacional wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:And for good reason. Despotic regimes aren't exactly popular.


That's not exactly a rule. Ever heard of Juan Perón? Hell, even Putin might qualify as "popular despot".

They have that cult of personality that has also been accused of Obama and Ronald Reagan.
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Degenerate Heart of HetRio
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Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:36 pm

Vashtanaraada wrote:It's not, but drifters are still drifters

We live in a world 100% living under the rule of non-communists.

It isn't like being social democrat will make people denounce it less.
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

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Estado Nacional
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Postby Estado Nacional » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:36 pm

The Serbian Empire wrote:
Estado Nacional wrote:
That's not exactly a rule. Ever heard of Juan Perón? Hell, even Putin might qualify as "popular despot".

They have that cult of personality that has also been accused of Obama and Ronald Reagan.


That doesn't mean they're unpopular.
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
Economic Left/Right: 3.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.82

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Neo Rome Republic
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Postby Neo Rome Republic » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:37 pm

Murkwood wrote:
NEO Rome Republic wrote:Private property and enterprise exist in Fascism. An tenet of Fascism is a Mixed-Economy, which has Capitalism.

An tenet of Fascism is a Mixed-Economy,


Says who?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky to secure national self-sufficiency and independence through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[13]

(Also on the right side of the upper half of the page where it says "core tenets" click on that, and you'll find "Mixed Economy" listed there)
Last edited by Neo Rome Republic on Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ethical and Metaphysical: (Pan) Humanist and Naturalist.
Political Views Sum: Centrist on social issues, Market Socialist on economic, and Radical Civic universalist on political governance.
This nation DOES(for most part) represent my OOC views.
''A rich man complaining about regulation and taxes, is like the drunkard at a party, complaining about not having enough to drink.'',

"An empty mind is a mind without a filter, the mind of a gullible fool. A closed mind is the mind unwilling to look at the reality outside its bubble. An open mind is one that is cautious, flexible yet balanced; looking at both the reality and the possibility."
OOC Info Page Pros And Cons Political Ideology

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Vashtanaraada
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Postby Vashtanaraada » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:38 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Vashtanaraada wrote:
We've got a better reputation than you.
At least we had Rosa Luxemburg and Sylvia Pankhurst

Reputation doesn't count for much; theory is everything.


We improve on your blunders essentially.
19 Year Old Male, British (Scouser), Bassist, plays Heavy Metal + Hard Rock
Apatheist, Ex-Smoker and Ex-Stoner, Bi-Curious, ENFP Personality Type
University Student and Member of The Labour Party (United Kingdom)
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FOR - Democratic Socialism/ Classical Marxism/ Trade-Unionism/ Pro-Choice/ Anti-Nationalism/ Revolution/ Direct Democracy/ Internationalism/ Soft Drugs/ L.G.B.T Rights/ Ecologism/ Gender Equality.

AGAINST - Fascism/ Capitalism/ Conservatism/ Militarism/ Racism/ Homophobia/ Oligarchy/ Monarchy/ Hierarchy/ Austerity/ Dictatorships/ Leninism/ Privatisation/ Stereotypes/ Nuclear Weaponry.

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Vashtanaraada
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Postby Vashtanaraada » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:39 pm

Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:
Vashtanaraada wrote:It's not, but drifters are still drifters

We live in a world 100% living under the rule of non-communists.

It isn't like being social democrat will make people denounce it less.


True, but I live in the UK, and it seems the 2nd largest party is a social democratic one.
It's not what it was, and it's certainly got some influence/had some
19 Year Old Male, British (Scouser), Bassist, plays Heavy Metal + Hard Rock
Apatheist, Ex-Smoker and Ex-Stoner, Bi-Curious, ENFP Personality Type
University Student and Member of The Labour Party (United Kingdom)
-9.13 Economic
-6.00 Social
FOR - Democratic Socialism/ Classical Marxism/ Trade-Unionism/ Pro-Choice/ Anti-Nationalism/ Revolution/ Direct Democracy/ Internationalism/ Soft Drugs/ L.G.B.T Rights/ Ecologism/ Gender Equality.

AGAINST - Fascism/ Capitalism/ Conservatism/ Militarism/ Racism/ Homophobia/ Oligarchy/ Monarchy/ Hierarchy/ Austerity/ Dictatorships/ Leninism/ Privatisation/ Stereotypes/ Nuclear Weaponry.

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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:39 pm

Vashtanaraada wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:Reputation doesn't count for much; theory is everything.


We improve on your blunders essentially.

No, you really haven't. You guys haven't even set up an experiment, IIRC. We had several. We still have at least one (and maybe two) going.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. Religious communitarian with Sorelian, Marxist, and Traditionalist influences. Sympathies toward Sunni Islam. All flags/avatars are chosen for aesthetic or humor purposes only
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

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The Serbian Empire
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Founded: Apr 18, 2012
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:39 pm

Estado Nacional wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:They have that cult of personality that has also been accused of Obama and Ronald Reagan.


That doesn't mean they're unpopular.

Indeed, but most of the despots aren't so popular as to have more approval than disapproval without squashing all opposition.
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Bad Idea Purveyor
8 Values: https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=56.1&d=70.2&g=86.5&s=91.9
Political Compass: Economic -10.00 Authoritarian: -9.13
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preferred pronouns: Female ones
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Degenerate Heart of HetRio
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Postby Degenerate Heart of HetRio » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:41 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:No, you really haven't. You guys haven't even set up an experiment, IIRC. We had several. We still have at least one (and maybe two) going.

Honestly, Cuba could use some liberalism. It has been stagnant to some relevant degree.
Pro: Communism/anarchism, Indigenous rights, MOGAI stuff, bodily autonomy, disability rights, environmentalism
Meh: Animal rights, non-harmful religion/superstition, militant atheism, left-leaning reform of capitalism
Anti: Dyadic superstructure (sex-gender birth designation and hierarchy), positivism, conservatism, imperialism, Zionism, Orientalism, fascism, religious right, bending to reactionary concerns before freedom/common concern, fraudulent beliefs and ideologies

Formerly "Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro".

Compass: -10.00, -9.13
S-E Ideology: Demc. Socialist (92% ditto/Marxist, 75% Anarchist/Social democrat, 0% etc)
S-E school of thought: Communist (100% ditto, 96% Post-Keynesian)

Though this says I'm a social democrat, I'm largely a left communist.

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Estado Nacional
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Postby Estado Nacional » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:41 pm

The Serbian Empire wrote:
Estado Nacional wrote:
That doesn't mean they're unpopular.

Indeed, but most of the despots aren't so popular as to have more approval than disapproval without squashing all opposition.


But if they didn't do that, they wouldn't be despots.
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
Economic Left/Right: 3.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.82

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Vashtanaraada
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Founded: Nov 27, 2012
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Postby Vashtanaraada » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:42 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Vashtanaraada wrote:
We improve on your blunders essentially.

No, you really haven't. You guys haven't even set up an experiment, IIRC. We had several. We still have at least one (and maybe two) going.


The Spartacist Uprising was probably the only example, but in Russia the Leninists seemed to kill off or out-speak the Mensheviks, and in Italy and Germany the Fascists got them.
Last edited by Vashtanaraada on Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
19 Year Old Male, British (Scouser), Bassist, plays Heavy Metal + Hard Rock
Apatheist, Ex-Smoker and Ex-Stoner, Bi-Curious, ENFP Personality Type
University Student and Member of The Labour Party (United Kingdom)
-9.13 Economic
-6.00 Social
FOR - Democratic Socialism/ Classical Marxism/ Trade-Unionism/ Pro-Choice/ Anti-Nationalism/ Revolution/ Direct Democracy/ Internationalism/ Soft Drugs/ L.G.B.T Rights/ Ecologism/ Gender Equality.

AGAINST - Fascism/ Capitalism/ Conservatism/ Militarism/ Racism/ Homophobia/ Oligarchy/ Monarchy/ Hierarchy/ Austerity/ Dictatorships/ Leninism/ Privatisation/ Stereotypes/ Nuclear Weaponry.

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