Friendly statue in a quirky community or evil sign?

[TurtleShroom]

As I said earlier, to be honest, Lenin's ideas were not that bad... ...these nations have managed to govern themselves with a successful mixture of capitalism and socialism. Which sounds almost exactly like liberalism.

Okay, so Sweden feeds, clothes, houses, and basically gives everything to its citizenry it needs and wants to live, and then some, even to non-Swedes looking to take advantage of it. You know what other institution does all that Sweden does? Prison.

Speaking of prison, Scandenavian nations reward its criminals with all expense-paid luxury vacations for twenty one years (this is the highest sentence in Norway) while the victims are buried in the cemetary while their loved ones cry out for actual justice.

A society without justice is no society. There is no justice in giving convicts better facilities and treatments than the victims' facilities that they actually have to work for.

[Neutraligon]

Again it depends, most likely I would request it be moved (if the rest of the neighborhood agreed). Seems to me the people of Seattle don't mind it being there. You do realize I am Jewish by the way.

I fail to see how you being Jewish is relevant. It doesn't make you any more correct or insightful on the matter. I assume that you were not a victim of Hitler's.

No, but my family was directly. I did not say it makes me any more correct, but it does make your attempt to use the Holocaust and Hitler against me rather stupid. I was also making sure you did not call me an anti-semite, should you be tempted to do so. And again, the people of Seattle don't seem to have a problem against it, so I see no reason it should be removed.

[Senkaku]

What in the hell is wrong with Seattle??? Really, they put up a statue of a violent revolutionist that hated capitalism with a burning passion. Why is Seattle even part of America, they clearly don't like America so why don't they just succeed. America is better off without those idiots and they can live on their own without these Americans that they hate so much.

And while we have a statue of Lenin, why not have a statue of Hitler or Castro?

What I heard: rantrantrantrantrantrantrant.


It's been up for 20 years or more and, to my knowledge, no one has ever complained about it! Not even the cities conservatives. Also, technically George Washington was a "violent revolutionist". Shall we tear down his statues as well?

As to why we don't succeed, actually, we do. We just haven't seceded, which I think is what you meant.

Nice non-sequitur.

How does saying that Seattle has a ton of Marxists because they have successfully elected a Marxist to their City Council even remotely a Nonsquitur? The first statement (Marxism heavilly infests Seattle) is directly supported by the second statement (this must be true because their City Council has an official Marxist from a Marxist party in its ranks).

No, it doesn't. Kshama Sawant is a crazy person who won in a poor district where people don't pay much attention to politics and wanted someone besides their incumbent representative. Seattle is liberal, but it is not the headquarters of the Internationale or last bastion of the USSR.

[Arcturus Novus]

As I said earlier, to be honest, Lenin's ideas were not that bad... ...these nations have managed to govern themselves with a successful mixture of capitalism and socialism. Which sounds almost exactly like liberalism.

Okay, so Sweden feeds, clothes, houses, and basically gives everything to its citizenry it needs and wants to live, and then some, even to non-Swedes looking to take advantage of it. You know what other institution does all that Sweden does? Prison.

Speaking of prison, Scandenavian nations reward its criminals with all expense-paid luxury vacations for twenty one years (this is the highest sentence in Norway) while the victims are buried in the cemetary while their loved ones cry out for actual justice.

A society without justice is no society. There is no justice in giving convicts better facilities and treatments than the victims' facilities that they actually have to work for.

What do prison conditions in Sweden have to do with the topic and your apparent dislike of Marxism?

[Jumalariik]

I fail to see how you being Jewish is relevant. It doesn't make you any more correct or insightful on the matter. I assume that you were not a victim of Hitler's.

No, but my family was directly. I did not say it makes me any more correct, but it does make your attempt to use the Holocaust and Hitler against me rather stupid. I was also making sure you did not call me an anti-semite, should you be tempted to do so. And again, the people of Seattle don't seem to have a problem against it, so I see no reason it should be removed.

I would never call you an anti-semite. You said nothing anti-Semitic that I saw.

[Tekania]

The man behind the Red Terror does not deserve a statue like this.

I kinda like it...... also that they put a star on it and xmas tree lights for the holidays.

[The Arctic Queendom]

Okay, so Sweden feeds, clothes, houses, and basically gives everything to its citizenry it needs and wants to live, and then some, even to non-Swedes looking to take advantage of it. You know what other institution does all that Sweden does? Prison.

Speaking of prison, Scandenavian nations reward its criminals with all expense-paid luxury vacations for twenty one years (this is the highest sentence in Norway) while the victims are buried in the cemetary while their loved ones cry out for actual justice.

A society without justice is no society. There is no justice in giving convicts better facilities and treatments than the victims' facilities that they actually have to work for.

What do prison conditions in Sweden have to do with the topic and your apparent dislike of Marxism?

Exactly!

[Blazedtown]

I don't know if this has been discussed or not, but there is a statue in the quirky and fun community of Fremont, Seattle. It isn't like a huge thing or what, but it's a statue of Vladimir Lenin. Yeah. Wikipedia URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin,_Seattle. The story behind it is that when Czechoslovakia toppled its Commie regime, in the Czech village of Poprad, they put their Lenin statue in the dump. While an American was ravaging the scrapyard, he found this bronze mammoth. He bought it and sent it to the USA. While figuring what to do with it, he died in an accident. So his family put it up on a street facing a Masonic lodge and a FedEx shipping center. I'd love to hear your ideas.

Melt it down and turn it into a urinal trough at a truck stop.

[Neutraligon]

No, but my family was directly. I did not say it makes me any more correct, but it does make your attempt to use the Holocaust and Hitler against me rather stupid. I was also making sure you did not call me an anti-semite, should you be tempted to do so. And again, the people of Seattle don't seem to have a problem against it, so I see no reason it should be removed.

I would never call you an anti-semite. You said nothing anti-Semitic that I saw.

Sorry, when I give views that seem ... more permissive (no the right word but whatever)... about Hitler, I tend to be called an anti-Semite, thus I started trying to head it off.

[Cannot think of a name]

As I said earlier, to be honest, Lenin's ideas were not that bad... ...these nations have managed to govern themselves with a successful mixture of capitalism and socialism. Which sounds almost exactly like liberalism.

Okay, so Sweden feeds, clothes, houses, and basically gives everything to its citizenry it needs and wants to live, and then some, even to non-Swedes looking to take advantage of it. You know what other institution does all that Sweden does? Prison.

Speaking of prison, Scandenavian nations reward its criminals with all expense-paid luxury vacations for twenty one years (this is the highest sentence in Norway) while the victims are buried in the cemetary while their loved ones cry out for actual justice.

A society without justice is no society. There is no justice in giving convicts better facilities and treatments than the victims' facilities that they actually have to work for.

You're trying too hard.

[Arcturus Novus]

I don't know if this has been discussed or not, but there is a statue in the quirky and fun community of Fremont, Seattle. It isn't like a huge thing or what, but it's a statue of Vladimir Lenin. Yeah. Wikipedia URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin,_Seattle. The story behind it is that when Czechoslovakia toppled its Commie regime, in the Czech village of Poprad, they put their Lenin statue in the dump. While an American was ravaging the scrapyard, he found this bronze mammoth. He bought it and sent it to the USA. While figuring what to do with it, he died in an accident. So his family put it up on a street facing a Masonic lodge and a FedEx shipping center. I'd love to hear your ideas.

Melt it down and turn it into a urinal trough at a truck stop.

Blazedtown: making rational solutions to irrational problems.

[Blazedtown]

Melt it down and turn it into a urinal trough at a truck stop.

Blazedtown: making rational solutions to irrational problems.

Also the added benefit of having people pissing on Lenin thousands of times.

[Padnak]

I don't see any problem with it

Besides, if America wants to still claim to be a free country it can't go tearing down statues of people it disagrees with

[Blazedtown]

I don't see any problem with it

Besides, if America wants to still claim to be a free country it can't go tearing down statues of people it disagrees with

How about the statue of one of the worst tyrants of the 20th century?

[District XIV]

Also, this thing is old news, and I drive past it when we go to this really good bakery near there. It's not an "evil sign". It's just a kind of funny souvenir someone decided to put up. It's not like anyone minds.

You live in Washington State too? Cool.

Tbh, my opinion matches Senkaku's.

[-The West Coast-]

It's literally just bronze cast into a historical person's image. Get over it.

[Padnak]

How about the statue of one of the worst tyrants of the 20th century?

Lenin is pretty tame compared to the majority of the worlds less savoury leaders-

I don't think its the business of the government to regulate what people see, be it television, movies, art or in this case a statue. I doubt that the sight of a, in my opinion very impressive, statue is going to turn people into bloodthirsty Stalinist, and if it is, then thats the fault of people not being moral upstanding to begin with, not the statue or the people who put up the statue

Political ideologies aren't so opportunistic (don't know a better word for it, its late lol) that the mere sight of statue of one of that ideologies major figures is enough to turn people to that ideology.

[Felkesjud]

I love the statue of Lenin, just as I love the troll under the bridge and the many graffiti paintings around Green Lake. It's just artwork. I am a socialist, through not a Leninist or Marxist. And, most people I know would not align themselves with either, as well. So, just because a Marxist was elected does not mean that the whole of Seattle is Marxist. That's like saying because Obama was elected, all of America is pro-"cap and trade" or "ObamaCare."

Anyway, TurtleShroom, you seem to have confused socialism and the welfare state. Sweden is a welfare state. But, unless the workers democratically own the means of production, it is not socialist. Though, I would call it highly interventionist-capitalist. Though, there are likely to be at least some worker cooperatives, which are basically businesses operated with the ideology of socialism.

I apologize for the partial thread jack, if my post was one.

[-The West Coast-]

I don't see any problem with it

Besides, if America wants to still claim to be a free country it can't go tearing down statues of people it disagrees with

How about the statue of one of the worst tyrants of the 20th century?

I believe Lenin died before ever making it to a permanent leadership position in Soviet Russia.

[Padnak]

I wonder if I could buy a statue of Stalin or something...

would look pretty cool converted into a water fountain...

[Saint Kitten]

So are we going to take down every statue that may be controversial (even though this one has had zero known complaints)? If that's so, there would be no statues

[Felkesjud]

How about the statue of one of the worst tyrants of the 20th century?

That's the great thing with freedom of speech, it enables you the ability to speech and preach freely. It is a legal right of US citizens to be Nazis, Stalinists, Leninists, Trotskyists, Jefforsonians, Libertarians, Communists, Socialists, Capitalists, and so on and so forth. Just because you or others disagree with it does not mean we should immediately shut up about it and burn everything related to it. That would be essentially a dictatorship. So, there being a statue of Lenin in Fremont isn't a bad thing, in itself. And, so long as the locals wish it to remain, it should remain.

[Great Franconia and Verana]

Its a statue...
Its a big deal because?
Love him or hate him, its not like the presence of this one sculpture condemns all of Seattle to be Communist, or some other exaggeration such as this. So long as the people that live near the statue dont wish it to be removed, why take it down? Is it disturbing anyone? No, and the people who actually have to see it every day dont seem to mind.

[Natapoc]

Much OP. Very wow. I don't suppose you have an opinion?


Also, this thing is old news, and I drive past it when we go to this really good bakery near there. It's not an "evil sign". It's just a kind of funny souvenir someone decided to put up. It's not like anyone minds.

Is the bakery flying apron?

[Felkesjud]

So is the holocaust.

Ever hear of the Holocaust Museum? Does that mean you think that the Holocaust Museam shouldn't exist, as you seem to think the statue of Lenin shouldn't stand?