Could the Axis have won World War 2?

[New Decius]

I ask a question which in the past sixty years has been asked many, many times: Could the Axis Powers have won World War 2?

Now I know most of you will say no, but I say yes and my reason is the Wunderwaffe or Wonder Weapons of Nazi Germany. The Weapons they designed, most of which were not able to be built, some of them are still more advanced in design and science than the modern weapons of today. The Germans designed a Bomber that was the Basis of the B-2 and if built the Nazi Version would still have the edge, they designed Super Tanks, and actually built such innovative weapons as the first Liquid Fuel Powered Ballistic Missile (The V-2 Rocket), the first Jet Fighter (The Me 262), the first Turbojet Bomber (Arado 234). And they had designs for Bombers which could travel from airfields outside of Berlin to targets on the Eastern Seaboard of the United States and in the 1940's that would be quite a feat. There have even been designs found for a Ray Gun. And most of these weapons were designed in the 1930's though Germany didn't have the industrial capacity until the early 1940's. If Germany had been able to mass produce more of its Wonder Weapon Designs, the Axis could have won the war, well maybe not Japan but at least the war in Europe. The Allies were way behind the Germans when it came to the Rocket Program and Jet Fighter as well, I mean when the Germans churned out the V-1, the thought of Rockets actually having a military use in the 20th century was still just a dream to the Allied Nations. No matter how deep the Allies were entrenched, the Wonder Weapons would have pushed them back, especially the Typhoon-Surface-to-air Anti-Aircraft Missile.

Anyway, I've made my Argument so I would like to hear everyone else's. Fire away.

[Cyrisnia]

They could've, but thank Ahura Mazda they didn't.

[Alyakia]

i can't get over the fact that your argument is literally "hitler ray guns". it's making things really hard for me.

you need more than just ray guns to win a war anyway.

[Faustin Land]

They wouldn't of lasted very long. Too many rebellions would pop up. All occupied countries would go taliban on them.

[Pandeeria]

No. If Mussolini and the Emproer of Japan weren't dumbasses, they could've dragged the war out longer.

However, when both of the Superpowers (USA & USSR) are against you, you're going to lose. Perhaps if it was just an invasion of North Africa and no one gave a shit, possibly.

If the UK, USA, and USSR never got involved, Hitler ditched Italy as the stupid ally that it is, and later gave the middle finger to Japan when it's Empire was collapsing, he then could've won.

[Sun Wukong]

If Germany had somehow negotiated a peace before the end of '42, sure. More or less the same with Japan.

But no amount of wonder weapons would have had them pulling out a win after that, unless, and only if, it was an atomic bomb. Which would be exceedingly unlikely, as the Germans were no where near producing a working weapon, and the Japanese had given up in favor of death rays.

[New Decius]

i can't get over the fact that your argument is literally "hitler ray guns". it's making things really hard for me.

you need more than just ray guns to win a war anyway.

I doubt it could even have been built before 1980 but when the plans were found after American and British Forces beat the Soviets to the punch in capturing Pundemunde the Nazi Research Center, the science was incredibly sound even by today's standards. The more important Weapons would have been the Long Range Bombers, the Super Tanks, and especially the Focke-Wulf Triebflügel VTOL aircraft which used a total of four jet engines, three in making the plane a VTOL aircraft one for the actual jet propulsion, it was meant to be put in place after the Allies invaded France because the Germans couldn't just wait for their own Monoplane Aircraft to takeoff and rise to the sky slow and steady, they needed an aircraft that could get in the air fast and quick.

[Alyakia]

No. If Mussolini and the Emproer of Japan were dumbasses, they could've dragged the war out longer.

However, when both of the Superpowers (USA & USSR) are against you, you're going to lose. Perhaps if it was just an invasion of North Africa and no one gave a shit, possibly.

the british empire probably counts as a superpower at the time, compared to the USA and USSR which only really became super powers after the war. but yeah sure, for the sake of the thread, let's just say he had three superpowers and/or emerging superpowers on his ass. you see OP, as many people have noted, hitler was a stupid asshole, which is why he lost, and even if he develops rayguns, that just makes him a stupid asshole with a raygun.

[Pandeeria]

No. If Mussolini and the Emproer of Japan were dumbasses, they could've dragged the war out longer.

However, when both of the Superpowers (USA & USSR) are against you, you're going to lose. Perhaps if it was just an invasion of North Africa and no one gave a shit, possibly.

the british empire probably counts as a superpower at the time, compared to the USA and USSR which only really became super powers after the war. but yeah sure, for the sake of the thread, let's just say he had three superpowers and/or emerging superpowers on his ass. you see OP, as many people have noted, hitler was a stupid asshole, which is why he lost, and even if you develop rayguns, that just makes you a stupid asshole with a raygun.

The British empire was beginning it's fast, expensive, decline and collapse. The British Empire and the French Empire were the Superpowers from the 1300's to the early 1800's.

Eventually Britain spent more then what they would get just keeping the colonies in check.

Lots of people also agree that if the UK wasn't an island, they wouldn't have been able to withstand the German invasion.

[Alyakia]

the british empire probably counts as a superpower at the time, compared to the USA and USSR which only really became super powers after the war. but yeah sure, for the sake of the thread, let's just say he had three superpowers and/or emerging superpowers on his ass. you see OP, as many people have noted, hitler was a stupid asshole, which is why he lost, and even if you develop rayguns, that just makes you a stupid asshole with a raygun.

The British empire was beginning it's fast, expensive, decline and collapse. The British Empire and the French Empire were the Superpowers from the 1300's to the early 1800's.

Eventually Britain spent more then what they would get just keeping the colonies in check.

Lots of people also agree that if the UK wasn't an island, they wouldn't have been able to withstand the German invasion.

and possibly the only reason the U.S. exists is because it has two massive oceans protecting it. a nice point, but even in a thread with hitler in a jet pack, changing geography is a bit too far for an "if".

[New Decius]

If Germany had somehow negotiated a peace before the end of '42, sure. More or less the same with Japan.

But no amount of wonder weapons would have had them pulling out a win after that, unless, and only if, it was an atomic bomb. Which would be exceedingly unlikely, as the Germans were no where near producing a working weapon, and the Japanese had given up in favor of death rays.

Actually the German Nuclear Weapon Program did come so very close to the bomb in 1943, then the Eastern Front worsened and most of its funding was lost since it went instead to producing Tanks and Guns for the front, along with the fact that many of its scientists were either killed or kidnapped by the allies. Then there were those that defected because they realized a nut like Hitler should never have access to an Atomic Weapon. It would be like entrusting the safety of the planet in a lit stick of dynamite.



There actually were two Tanks in the Wonder Weapon Initiative that if built would have prevented an Allied Victory. The Landkreuzers P. 1000 and P. 1500, they both fired 800mm Rounds, the same fired by a Rail Mounted Howitzer, and also were the size of a building. The 1000 would need a crew of 40 and the 1500 a crew of 100. A mass production of those two Tanks would have turned the tide in the Eastern Front which was the real problem for Germany.

[New Decius]

The British empire was beginning it's fast, expensive, decline and collapse. The British Empire and the French Empire were the Superpowers from the 1300's to the early 1800's.

Eventually Britain spent more then what they would get just keeping the colonies in check.

Lots of people also agree that if the UK wasn't an island, they wouldn't have been able to withstand the German invasion.

and possibly the only reason the U.S. exists is because it has two massive oceans protecting it. a nice point, but even in a thread with hitler in a jet pack, changing geography is a bit too far for an "if".

Yes Hitler was the reason for many German failures in combat during the war. Like Dunkirk, had he not been idiot enough to assume the Luftwaffe alone could eliminate 300,000 troops, no matter how tired and weary it wouldn't work, and simply let the well equipped and well positioned Wehrmacht do its job then some 300,000 Allied Troops would have been captured. The troops at Dunkirk were out of food, weapons, ammunition, and practically everything else whereas the advancing German Forces had Tanks, Artillery, and tons of fresh infantry.

[Benian Republic]

Mussolini was the only true fascist he could have won

[Cyrisnia]

Mussolini was the only true fascist he could have won

Didn't Italy get fucked over by the Greeks?
And every other country?

[Great Hyruke]

They could have.

[Auroya]

If there hadn't been the multitude of downright stupid strategic decisions that were made, I believe they could have in theory.

For example Hitler should have finished off Britain before starting Barbarossa so the allies didn't have a huge unsinkable aircraft carrier anchored just off the coast of the Third Reich.

[United Marxist Nations]

The only way they could have won is if the Soviet Union had not industrialized/Whites won the Russian Civil War. Otherwise, the same result as real life.

[New Decius]

Hitler was the main reason Germany lost. He should have stuck to making speeches and kissing up to the people and let the German General's Staff do their jobs, which they would have done a lot better than what he suggested. He shot half the best General's and Field Marshal's in the German Army for stupid reasons.

[New Decius]

The only way they could have won is if the Soviet Union had not industrialized/Whites won the Russian Civil War. Otherwise, the same result as real life.

You realized that the Soviet Union didn't really start beating back the Germans until 43 when every man, woman, and child in the country armed themselves with a weapon and threw themselves at the Germans. Literally.

It was also the weather which made the Eastern Front hell.

[Estenia]

Yeah, the Axis could have won if they had more supporters from other nations and putting them in the war.

[Pragia]

If Barbarossa wasn't a thing, they may have had a chance at taking Britain. Occupying a wartime United States from across an ocean? Absurd. Occupying the entire frozen expanse of Russia? Absurd. Thinking there would be no uprisings in any territory? Most absurd.

[Mengrath]

I think with someone else then Hitler as their military leader they could probably have achieved more. He was unexperienced in strategy and tactics, he view of things was deluded and warped; as his attack on soviet union shows. Counting everything I know together, I can clearly say that someone else would have done that job much better.

greetings, a fellow german player

[United Marxist Nations]

The only way they could have won is if the Soviet Union had not industrialized/Whites won the Russian Civil War. Otherwise, the same result as real life.

You realized that the Soviet Union didn't really start beating back the Germans until 43 when every man, woman, and child in the country armed themselves with a weapon and threw themselves at the Germans. Literally.

It was also the weather which made the Eastern Front hell.

Yeah, I know, but it also outproduced Germany in terms of tanks, rifles, etc. to the point where they were, at certain points, literally using their tanks as battering rams. Not to mention that the Germans greatly underestimated the size of the Soviet tank and artillery forces, which caused them to experience heavy casualties leading up to the Battle of Moscow (late '41, when it became clear Germany would lose); Hitler himself said "Had I known of the strength of the Soviet tank corps in 1941, I would not have ordered the invasion."

[United Marxist Nations]

If Barbarossa wasn't a thing, they may have had a chance at taking Britain. Occupying a wartime United States from across an ocean? Absurd. Occupying the entire frozen expanse of Russia? Absurd. Thinking there would be no uprisings in any territory? Most absurd.

Soviet Union was going to attack Germany. See: Soviet Offensive Plans Theory.

[New Decius]

If Barbarossa wasn't a thing, they may have had a chance at taking Britain. Occupying a wartime United States from across an ocean? Absurd. Occupying the entire frozen expanse of Russia? Absurd. Thinking there would be no uprisings in any territory? Most absurd.

You know you don't have to occupy your enemies to beat them. You just have to make sure they can no longer build up militarily. And I think that the Third Reich would simply have to establish Gestapo and SS Divisions in the United States and parts of Russia to quell the populace with fear. They used some pretty scary methods. Or instead of that simply destroying symbols of morale, like in Russia leveling Moscow and Leningrad, both of which have been very influential in Russian history, or for America well actually Americans have so many morale boosting symbols in their country it would take a bit longer to level them all. But say the Germans leveled Washington D.C. and New York City, how would American Morale stand?