NationStates

Sibirsky wrote:

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Oh, good, I was wondering how long it would take for Sibirsky to turn this into an anti-tax rant.

I didn't. Another person said the main reason for legalizing marijuana was tax revenue.

Which is just dumb. It's like saying that anything we cannot tax should be banned.

That air you're breathing is illegal. You criminal.

Well taxation of marijuana is a major plus so the person isnt wrong about that. It can provide billions of dollars in revenue as well as produce companies to compete with paper companies which will also create jobs and still generate alot of revenue for the people and the government.

Antarticaria wrote:

Sibirsky wrote:I didn't. Another person said the main reason for legalizing marijuana was tax revenue.

Which is just dumb. It's like saying that anything we cannot tax should be banned.

That air you're breathing is illegal. You criminal.

Well taxation of marijuana is a major plus so the person isnt wrong about that. It can provide billions of dollars in revenue as well as produce companies to compete with paper companies which will also create jobs and still generate alot of revenue for the people and the government.

This, it's a win-win for everyone.

Antarticaria wrote:

Sibirsky wrote:I didn't. Another person said the main reason for legalizing marijuana was tax revenue.

Which is just dumb. It's like saying that anything we cannot tax should be banned.

That air you're breathing is illegal. You criminal.

Well taxation of marijuana is a major plus so the person isnt wrong about that. It can provide billions of dollars in revenue as well as produce companies to compete with paper companies which will also create jobs and still generate alot of revenue for the people and the government.

No, it isn't. Especially not at the levels implied by that person.

The government does not need any more revenue.

Sibirsky wrote:

Antarticaria wrote:
Well taxation of marijuana is a major plus so the person isnt wrong about that. It can provide billions of dollars in revenue as well as produce companies to compete with paper companies which will also create jobs and still generate alot of revenue for the people and the government.

No, it isn't. Especially not at the levels implied by that person.

The government does not need any more revenue.

More revenue is always better. More Revenue = greater chance of tax break, increased program funding for public schools, university and alot of extra cash to go around and be evened out.

Only a fool would ignore a large resource such as that with ANY strategic or economic reasoning involved.

Antarticaria wrote:

Sibirsky wrote:No, it isn't. Especially not at the levels implied by that person.

The government does not need any more revenue.

More revenue is always better. More Revenue = greater chance of tax break, increased program funding for public schools, university and alot of extra cash to go around and be evened out.

Only a fool would ignore a large resource such as that with ANY strategic or economic reasoning involved.

Plus we could even fix the VA, rebuild some bridges, and maybe install some of those solar roadway panels in the Southwest I've been hearing so much about.

Organized States wrote:

Antarticaria wrote:
More revenue is always better. More Revenue = greater chance of tax break, increased program funding for public schools, university and alot of extra cash to go around and be evened out.

Only a fool would ignore a large resource such as that with ANY strategic or economic reasoning involved.

Plus we could even fix the VA, rebuild some bridges, and maybe install some of those solar roadway panels in the Southwest I've been hearing so much about.

Ahh yes.

Antarticaria wrote:

Organized States wrote:Plus we could even fix the VA, rebuild some bridges, and maybe install some of those solar roadway panels in the Southwest I've been hearing so much about.

Ahh yes.

Even the slightest tax on Pot would do wonders for the country, ahh... The things we could fund with all that money...

Organized States wrote:

Antarticaria wrote:
Ahh yes.

Even the slightest tax on Pot would do wonders for the country, ahh... The things we could fund with all that money...

I am sure it will become legal, large movements for it are picking up in every state.

Antarticaria wrote:

Organized States wrote:Even the slightest tax on Pot would do wonders for the country, ahh... The things we could fund with all that money...

I am sure it will become legal, large movements for it are picking up in every state.

I believe the majority wants it legalized and taxed, so we will see.

Antarticaria wrote:

Sibirsky wrote:No, it isn't. Especially not at the levels implied by that person.

The government does not need any more revenue.

More revenue is always better. More Revenue = greater chance of tax break, increased program funding for public schools, university and alot of extra cash to go around and be evened out.

Only a fool would ignore a large resource such as that with ANY strategic or economic reasoning involved.

More revenue is always worse. More revenue to the government means less money in private hands, where it is better spent, saved, invested.

Organized States wrote:

Antarticaria wrote:
I am sure it will become legal, large movements for it are picking up in every state.

I believe the majority wants it legalized and taxed, so we will see.

The majority is also against the Patriot Act, mass surveillance, wars.

Freethinking Anarchists wrote:

Merizoc wrote:How about no.

How could an anarcho-primitivist argue against that statement?

And why do you oppose freedom?

Now that you mentioned it, what is an anarcho-primitivist doing here in the first place?

I heard the girl scouts in Colorado are making a killing with their cookie sales outside pot shops

Yes possession of all drugs should be either legal or decriminalized so long as you are carrying bellow a certain limit.

Greater-London wrote:Yes possession of all drugs should be either legal or decriminalized so long as you are carrying bellow a certain limit.

Why decriminalized, as opposed to legal? Why a certain limit?

Sibirsky wrote:Why decriminalized, as opposed to legal? Why a certain limit?

Because whilst I believe that you should be able to buy recreational drugs legal I think their needs to be regulation on the market. As such you should only be able to buy them from licence vendors rather than from some random person in the park. This is because the state should be responsible for regulating the quality of drugs that are available; drugs synthesized in labs can kill people if there cut with harmful chemicals (which incidentally is linked to a lot of drug fatalities). Its about protecting the consumer AND ensuring that recreational drugs are taxed correctly.

I would decriminalize some harder drugs such as Heroine namely because its a drug that is so highly addictive and life destroying that its probably best that you can't get hold of it easily. Although I am open to be convinced on this issue.

Greater-London wrote:

Sibirsky wrote:Why decriminalized, as opposed to legal? Why a certain limit?

Because whilst I believe that you should be able to buy recreational drugs legal I think their needs to be regulation on the market. As such you should only be able to buy them from licence vendors rather than from some random person in the park. This is because the state should be responsible for regulating the quality of drugs that are available; drugs synthesized in labs can kill people if there cut with harmful chemicals (which incidentally is linked to a lot of drug fatalities). Its about protecting the consumer AND ensuring that recreational drugs are taxed correctly.

I would decriminalize some harder drugs such as Heroine namely because its a drug that is so highly addictive and life destroying that its probably best that you can't get hold of it easily. Although I am open to be convinced on this issue.

You did not answer either one of my questions.

Making something illegal does not make it difficult to find. If anything, it makes it easier and more dangerous. You don't know who is selling it (as opposed to licensed dealers), you don't know what is in it (as opposed to licensed manufacturers and growers), and you know damn well, that kids can get their hands on it, because checking IDs for age is not something drug dealers worry about.

By making heroin legal, you would ensure better and cleaner quality, proper dosages, and limited sales to minors.

You would also reduce the use of more harmful substitute drugs like krokodil.

The illegal drug market is worth something like half a trillion per year. Perhaps more. Why would you think they are difficult to find?

Sibirsky wrote:You did not answer either one of my questions.

Making something illegal does not make it difficult to find. If anything, it makes it easier and more dangerous. You don't know who is selling it (as opposed to licensed dealers), you don't know what is in it (as opposed to licensed manufacturers and growers), and you know damn well, that kids can get their hands on it, because checking IDs for age is not something drug dealers worry about.

By making heroin legal, you would ensure better and cleaner quality, proper dosages, and limited sales to minors.

You would also reduce the use of more harmful substitute drugs like krokodil.

The illegal drug market is worth something like half a trillion per year. Perhaps more. Why would you think they are difficult to find?

You didn't read what I wrote. I don't think any drugs should illegal so your spiel about why criminalizing it is wrong is unnecessary. As for answering your questions I did both; you asked why I think there should be a limit on possession. My reasoning i that if you have more than a certain amount your going to supply its not just for your own use. As such your allowing an unregulated and dangerous drug market to continue alongside your clean and safe one.

I don't think drug are difficult to find. However I think if there legal they are easier to find - which is undoubtedly true. I know this next sentence is going to sound cringe but I could easily pick up right now if I wanted to; It would however be easier for me to go and buy tobacco or alcohol considering I'm 20 and live near a licensed premises. There are some drugs like Heroine which are simply TOO dangerous with other drugs legalized you could divert attention toward things that you really don't want on your streets as opposed to stuff that doesn't cause a problem. Drugs like Heroine shouldn't be legal but decriminalized because the victims are the addicts NOT the dealers.

Greater-London wrote:

Sibirsky wrote:You did not answer either one of my questions.

Making something illegal does not make it difficult to find. If anything, it makes it easier and more dangerous. You don't know who is selling it (as opposed to licensed dealers), you don't know what is in it (as opposed to licensed manufacturers and growers), and you know damn well, that kids can get their hands on it, because checking IDs for age is not something drug dealers worry about.

By making heroin legal, you would ensure better and cleaner quality, proper dosages, and limited sales to minors.

You would also reduce the use of more harmful substitute drugs like krokodil.

The illegal drug market is worth something like half a trillion per year. Perhaps more. Why would you think they are difficult to find?

You didn't read what I wrote. I don't think any drugs should illegal so your spiel about why criminalizing it is wrong is unnecessary. As for answering your questions I did both; you asked why I think there should be a limit on possession. My reasoning i that if you have more than a certain amount your going to supply its not just for your own use. As such your allowing an unregulated and dangerous drug market to continue alongside your clean and safe one.

I don't think drug are difficult to find. However I think if there legal they are easier to find - which is undoubtedly true. I know this next sentence is going to sound cringe but I could easily pick up right now if I wanted to; It would however be easier for me to go and buy tobacco or alcohol considering I'm 20 and live near a licensed premises. There are some drugs like Heroine which are simply TOO dangerous with other drugs legalized you could divert attention toward things that you really don't want on your streets as opposed to stuff that doesn't cause a problem. Drugs like Heroine shouldn't be legal but decriminalized because the victims are the addicts NOT the dealers.

I read what you wrote. You only answered one. Limits. Not decriminalization, as opposed to legalization.

Right. Krokodil is better than heroin for the users. By keeping it illegal, you would encourage krokodil use. And other substitute drugs.

Sibirsky wrote:
I read what you wrote. You only answered one. Limits. Not decriminalization, as opposed to legalization.

Right. Krokodil is better than heroin for the users. My keeping it illegal, you would encourage krokodil use. And other substitute drugs.

Well if you had read what I wrote then you wouldn't have said "You haven't answered either of my questions". I answered both you just don't think my argument as to why some hard drugs should not be legal but decriminalized is wrong, which is of course different from not answering the question.

Krokodil also isn't better for Heroin users the life expectancy for users if far lower. Also my argument is to decriminalize drugs like Heroine not make them illegal. If both Heroin and Krokodil are decriminalized it won't turn addicts of the former into addicts of the latter as both are equal in the eyes of the law.

Greater-London wrote:

Sibirsky wrote:
I read what you wrote. You only answered one. Limits. Not decriminalization, as opposed to legalization.

Right. Krokodil is better than heroin for the users. My keeping it illegal, you would encourage krokodil use. And other substitute drugs.

Well if you had read what I wrote then you wouldn't have said "You haven't answered either of my questions". I answered both you just don't think my argument as to why some hard drugs should not be legal but decriminalized is wrong, which is of course different from not answering the question.

Krokodil also isn't better for Heroin users the life expectancy for users if far lower. Also my argument is to decriminalize drugs like Heroine not make them illegal. If both Heroin and Krokodil are decriminalized it won't turn addicts of the former into addicts of the latter as both are equal in the eyes of the law.

You did not answer the question. You also don't get sarcasm.

Krokodil is used exclusively by heroin users when they can't afford heroin itself. By making heroin more difficult to get, you would encourage krokodil use, especially among the poor.

They are not equal in the eyes of the users. They prefer heroin and only use krokodil as a substitute because it is cheaper.

Sibirsky wrote:You did not answer the question. You also don't get sarcasm.

Krokodil is used exclusively by heroin users when they can't afford heroin itself. By making heroin more difficult to get, you would encourage krokodil use, especially among the poor.

They are not equal in the eyes of the users. They prefer heroin and only use krokodil as a substitute because it is cheaper.

Well its quite hard to get sarcasm over the internet as is VERY well established. Please tell me how I didn't answer the question?

Your question was this "Why decriminalize and not legalize?" my response was that I think if somethings legal its easier to get than if its decriminalized. Heroine is a drug that damages lives to such a great extent and is so addictive that I would rather see use cracked down on rather than allow for it to continue. Through decriminalizing you ensure that users are not punished by the law (which is wrong) but the dealers are (which is okay). All of that is there in both of my posts.

I know what Krokodil is; I also fail to see how making Heroin decriminalized will somehow make it harder to get than it is already? Also if you make Heroin legal and free to buy in shops would you allow Krokodil to be bought in shops too? If so the problem would still continue the poor would be forced to buy a cheap substitute.

The European Poland wrote:And for the people who want hard drugs legalised - Many people have died from overdoses of Cocaine and Heroin. The ban on those drugs save lives.

At what cost? Many good men, women and children have died because of our "war on drugs". It's put money into the pockets of unscrupulous people as well. I think that our attempts to stop illegal drug use has cost us too much in terms of money and lives. I too agree that all drugs should be made either legal or decriminalized with rehabilitation a better answer than prison terms.

Just because a product can kill someone doesn't mean it should be illegal. If that were the case then cars, knives, cough syrup, alcohol, ibuprofen, morphine and stones should be made illegal as they can kill people if not used correctly!

Poker Dude wrote:

The European Poland wrote:And for the people who want hard drugs legalised - Many people have died from overdoses of Cocaine and Heroin. The ban on those drugs save lives.

At what cost? Many good men, women and children have died because of our "war on drugs". It's put money into the pockets of unscrupulous people as well. I think that our attempts to stop illegal drug use has cost us too much in terms of money and lives. I too agree that all drugs should be made either legal or decriminalized with rehabilitation a better answer than prison terms.

Just because a product can kill someone doesn't mean it should be illegal. If that were the case then cars, knives, cough syrup, alcohol, ibuprofen, morphine and stones should be made illegal as they can kill people if not used correctly!

And what's the correct usage of heroin?

I agree, drugs shouldn't be illegal. But cocaine, and certainly not heroin, should not be legal. Decriminalize them.

Merizoc wrote:

Poker Dude wrote:
At what cost? Many good men, women and children have died because of our "war on drugs". It's put money into the pockets of unscrupulous people as well. I think that our attempts to stop illegal drug use has cost us too much in terms of money and lives. I too agree that all drugs should be made either legal or decriminalized with rehabilitation a better answer than prison terms.

Just because a product can kill someone doesn't mean it should be illegal. If that were the case then cars, knives, cough syrup, alcohol, ibuprofen, morphine and stones should be made illegal as they can kill people if not used correctly!

And what's the correct usage of heroin?

I agree, drugs shouldn't be illegal. But cocaine, and certainly not heroin, should not be legal. Decriminalize them.

You still never gave a source for "why there are no casual users of heroin"?