Why "Under God" does not violate the Constitution

[Draica]

America is a christian nation.

I'm not going to go on the limb and say that...That's too much for me.

On topic, please.

[Valdrin]

It shows that the government is supporting the belief in a specific God, instead of being completely neutral on the subject.

Who is the specific God, then? The pledge certainly doesn't mention him/her/it. It says "God," which is an incredibly broad term..

Which god doesn't it mean? Its the fact that the government is supporting God's and I believe (from what I've read) it was added because the USSR was a atheist nation, and America then needed to be a Christian nation. You can of course, correct me if I am wrong on that though.

[The New Sea Territory]

"Under God" recognizes that there is a god, holding to the belief of theism and, in some cases, deism. Thus, they are endorsing theistic religions.

I'm not strawmanning. People defend "under god" as if it is meant to be there for any other reason besides saying "FUCK YOU" to the Soviets.

1. The Government still hasn't a single set position on any Religion, it hasn't made any official discrimination based on any Religion either. The state is not interfearing with the religious behaviors of people, either. Thus, it is not a violation, they are not "endorsing" anything(you have no evidence of that as that is your personal interpitation.)

2. Yes, it is a strawman. I never said anything about America and it's broader actions in the cold war, never justified it and certainly never said it was 100% right. That wasn't even part of my initial argument. That's why we call it a strawman.

1. Theism is collection of religions. They endorsed a few hundred religions, actually. And if you want to pull the "personal interpretation card", then you can say free speech means no free speech, guns rights are a joke, fuck warrants and the whole Constitution is meaningless.

2. But it isn't a strawman because it's something called relevant information. You just don't want to talk about it because you disagree with me.

[Tubbsalot]

What interpretation have you developed, exactly, in which "God" does not refer to a religious or spiritual entity?

God can mean many things.

godhead(leader of something)

The superior.

The overlord,

Etc. It doesn't always have to mean Religion.

Don't be fucking ridiculous. God means god. Look it up in the dictionary. Nobody on the planet uses the word "God" (especially capitalised) to refer to anything other than God, and usually the Abrahamic God, and in this case it specifically refers to the Christian God, since - as has already been noted - it was put in as a middle finger to the officially-atheist Soviets.

You even acknowledge in the OP that "god" is associated with religion. Pretending it means "overlord" is just being obtuse.

[Ifreann]

"Under God" recognizes that there is a god, holding to the belief of theism and, in some cases, deism. Thus, they are endorsing theistic religions.

I'm not strawmanning. People defend "under god" as if it is meant to be there for any other reason besides saying "FUCK YOU" to the Soviets.

1. The Government still hasn't a single set position on any Religion, it hasn't made any official discrimination based on any Religion either. The state is not interfearing with the religious behaviors of people, either. Thus, it is not a violation, they are not "endorsing" anything(you have no evidence of that as that is your personal interpitation.)

2. Yes, it is a strawman. I never said anything about America and it's broader actions in the cold war, never justified it and certainly never said it was 100% right. That wasn't even part of my initial argument. That's why we call it a strawman.

You obviously don't know what the First Amendment to your own constitution says.

[Draica]

Who is the specific God, then? The pledge certainly doesn't mention him/her/it. It says "God," which is an incredibly broad term..

Which god doesn't it mean? Its the fact that the government is supporting God's and I believe (from what I've read) it was added because the USSR was a atheist nation, and America then needed to be a Christian nation. You can of course, correct me if I am wrong on that though.

But America was never officially dubbed a "Christian nation" though.

The USSR's "Religion" was "State Atheism"(not saying Atheism is a religion so please do NOT jump on me about that,) the U.S. never established an official state Religion. If your logic was correct, then it would have.

[Draica]

1. The Government still hasn't a single set position on any Religion, it hasn't made any official discrimination based on any Religion either. The state is not interfearing with the religious behaviors of people, either. Thus, it is not a violation, they are not "endorsing" anything(you have no evidence of that as that is your personal interpitation.)

2. Yes, it is a strawman. I never said anything about America and it's broader actions in the cold war, never justified it and certainly never said it was 100% right. That wasn't even part of my initial argument. That's why we call it a strawman.

You obviously don't know what the First Amendment to your own constitution says.

Now you're using misdirection tactics. Please stay on topic.

[The New Sea Territory]

You obviously don't know what the First Amendment to your own constitution says.

Now you're using misdirection tactics. Please stay on topic.

That is fucking on topic and it proves you wrong. End of Thread.

[Draica]

God can mean many things.

godhead(leader of something)

The superior.

The overlord,

Etc. It doesn't always have to mean Religion.

Don't be fucking ridiculous. God means god. Look it up in the dictionary. Nobody on the planet uses the word "God" (especially capitalised) to refer to anything other than God, and usually the Abrahamic God, and in this case it specifically refers to the Christian God, since - as has already been noted - it was put in as a middle finger to the officially-atheist Soviets.

You even acknowledge in the OP that "god" is associated with religion. Pretending it means "overlord" is just being obtuse.

Once more, you have no evidence for this. There was never any specific leanings specified by the U.S. Government during the Cold war. Under God is a broad term and is not legistatively or state-ively favoring any single religion/belief system/Religious system.

PERIOD.

[Draica]

Now you're using misdirection tactics. Please stay on topic.

That is fucking on topic and it proves you wrong. End of Thread.

I find it interesting how angry people get over this stuff. You wouldn't be cursing if you actually had an intellectual position to hold and defend.

[The New Sea Territory]

Which god doesn't it mean? Its the fact that the government is supporting God's and I believe (from what I've read) it was added because the USSR was a atheist nation, and America then needed to be a Christian nation. You can of course, correct me if I am wrong on that though.

But America was never officially dubbed a "Christian nation" though.

The USSR's "Religion" was "State Atheism"(not saying Atheism is a religion so please do NOT jump on me about that,) the U.S. never established an official state Religion. If your logic was correct, then it would have.

The USSR was never officially dubbed atheist. They were just de facto radical atheists. Like America, during the Cold War, fought them godless pinko librul communazi homopedophiles by saying "We've got the American Jesus".

[Valdrin]

Don't be fucking ridiculous. God means god. Look it up in the dictionary. Nobody on the planet uses the word "God" (especially capitalised) to refer to anything other than God, and usually the Abrahamic God, and in this case it specifically refers to the Christian God, since - as has already been noted - it was put in as a middle finger to the officially-atheist Soviets.

You even acknowledge in the OP that "god" is associated with religion. Pretending it means "overlord" is just being obtuse.

Once more, you have no evidence for this. There was never any specific leanings specified by the U.S. Government during the Cold war. Under God is a broad term and is not legistatively or state-ively favoring any single religion/belief system/Religious system.

PERIOD.

However then it goes against everyone who doesn't believe in an actual God, the US government wouldn't put "Under Overlord Obama" in the pledge, so why should they put "Under God" in the pledge?

[Ifreann]

You obviously don't know what the First Amendment to your own constitution says.

Now you're using misdirection tactics. Please stay on topic.

I am on topic. If you knew what the First Amendment said you would understand how "under God" violates it. Your ignorance is the fulcrum on which this false notion turns.

[The New Sea Territory]

That is fucking on topic and it proves you wrong. End of Thread.

I find it interesting how angry people get over this stuff. You wouldn't be cursing if you actually had an intellectual position to hold and defend.

I'm not angry and cursing has nothing to do with intellect. Considering you are a theist, I would prefer you refrain from trying to say we aren't the intellectuals. And we aren't defending anything. YOU made the claim.

[The New Sea Territory]

Once more, you have no evidence for this. There was never any specific leanings specified by the U.S. Government during the Cold war. Under God is a broad term and is not legistatively or state-ively favoring any single religion/belief system/Religious system.

PERIOD.

However then it goes against everyone who doesn't believe in an actual God, the US government wouldn't put "Under Overlord Obama" in the pledge, so why should they put "Under God" in the pledge?

"One Nation, Under No Gods". That's completely ok by Draica's logic.

[Vozt Yurkova]

God can mean many things.

godhead(leader of something)

The superior.

The overlord,

Etc. It doesn't always have to mean Religion.

If the intent had been to say 'superior', 'overlord', 'potato' or 'slightly oversized Frenchman', then the word used would not be one which the vast majority of people identify as referring to the Abrahamic deity.

[Tubbsalot]

Once more, you have no evidence for this. There was never any specific leanings specified by the U.S. Government during the Cold war. Under God is a broad term and is not legistatively or state-ively favoring any single religion/belief system/Religious system.

You're clearly wrong, but it's irrelevant; you've picked out the one little bit of my post you have a response to, and ignored the rest. I don't suppose I should expect much from someone arguing that God doesn't mean God, but even so...

[Planeia]

What about Allah, Buddah, or Satan?

[Flaxxony]

To be honest I never said any of the pledge in school after like 8th grade. It's highly highly HIGHLY authoritarian when the state resorts to ROTE MEMORIZATION to ensure the citizenry stays loyal/domesticated.

I mean are you serious? It would be 1 thing to sing the national anthem but we had to say the pledge of allegiance literally every single day of the school year throughout my high school. There is no logical rational whatever justification of having anyone repeat their undying allegiance everyday. Unless it would be a to ensure obedience there's just simply no other way.

[Ivey-Kellum]

Since there is no violation of interfering with the freedom of religion, there is nothing unconstitutional about it. It does not refer to a single God but it simply says God, which could be interpreted differently by different people

[The New Sea Territory]

To be honest I never said any of the pledge in school after like 8th grade. It's highly highly HIGHLY authoritarian when the state resorts to ROTE MEMORIZATION to ensure the citizenry stays loyal/domesticated.

I mean are you serious? It would be 1 thing to sing the national anthem but we had to say the pledge of allegiance literally every single day of the school year throughout my high school. There is no logical rational whatever justification of having anyone repeat their undying allegiance everyday. Unless it would be a to ensure obedience there's just simply no other way.

I never say the pledge and haven't since....hmm...fifth grade?

[Flaxxony]

And people try to say the US isnt statist/authoritarian. Come on mofos

[The New Sea Territory]

Since there is no violation of interfering with the freedom of religion, there is nothing unconstitutional about it. It does not refer to a single God but it simply says God, which could be interpreted differently by different people

So you are siding with all theists against atheists. That's unconstitutional by the damn definition. (favoring a religion or religions, in this case) Read and stop spewing ignorance on everyone.

[Draica]

But America was never officially dubbed a "Christian nation" though.

The USSR's "Religion" was "State Atheism"(not saying Atheism is a religion so please do NOT jump on me about that,) the U.S. never established an official state Religion. If your logic was correct, then it would have.

http://historum.com/european-history/39644-state-imposed-atheism-soviet-union.html

The USSR was never officially dubbed atheist. They were just de facto radical atheists. Like America, during the Cold War, fought them godless pinko librul communazi homopedophiles by saying "We've got the American Jesus".

The USSR was a state atheistic state. This is COMMON KNOWLEDGE Churches were also stripped from their lands, Christians were oppressed and discriminated against.

Sounds like imposing your beliefs on others to me. That's the very definition of it.

[Ifreann]

Since there is no violation of interfering with the freedom of religion, there is nothing unconstitutional about it. It does not refer to a single God but it simply says God, which could be interpreted differently by different people

What does the First Amendment of the US Constitution say?