Why "Under God" does not violate the Constitution

[Draica]

The seperation of Church and state is a marvelous thing that was meant to actually protect Religion and religious freedom from being crushed by the Government, while at the same time ensuring Governmental neutrality on religion as a whole.

Having the phrase "God" on there is not the Government setting a official position on Religion. God is a very very broad term and can mean alot of things, however it is generally assosciated with Religion.

As long as Government isn't opressing religious freedom and it's stance doesn't favor any certain religion, seperation of Church and State has not been broken.

Your thoughts on this argument?

[The New Sea Territory]

Complete bullshit. "Under God" recognizes theism and deism over atheism.

Stop trying to continue justifying the Cold War and accept the fact that America isn't always right.

[Anthony Willman]

I agree completely.

[Tubbsalot]

Having the phrase "God" on there is not the Government setting a official position on Religion. God is a very very broad term and can mean alot of things, however it is generally assosciated with Religion.

Thereby making it prejudiced against people with no religion, even if we're thick enough to accept the plainly ludicrous idea that "God" is not referring to the Christian God specifically.

[Draica]

Complete bullshit. "Under God" recognizes theism and deism over atheism.

Stop trying to continue justifying the Cold War and accept the fact that America isn't always right.

1. Do you have proof/evidence for the first assertion?

2. Are you going to stop making strawmen already? Wow, first post and there are already strawmen!

Stop trying to continue justifying the Cold War and accept the fact that America isn't always right.

Strawman, strawman!

[Gandoor]

Something something Cold War something something Red Scare something something commie pinkos.

Basically it's bullshit and should be removed.

[Tubbsalot]

Complete bullshit. "Under God" recognizes theism and deism over atheism.

1. Do you have proof/evidence for the first assertion?!

Well, it says "under God." Which specifies a god... you know, a religious god? Of religion? And not of non-religion?

Are you seriously having trouble understanding this?

[Draica]

Having the phrase "God" on there is not the Government setting a official position on Religion. God is a very very broad term and can mean alot of things, however it is generally assosciated with Religion.

Thereby making it prejudiced against people with no religion, even if we're thick enough to accept the plainly ludicrous idea that "God" is not referring to the Christian God specifically.

Atheists still have the freedom to worship as they chose, believe as they choose and do as they choose. No one's stopping them, there may be social stigma but that's not the topic, is it?

The Government cannot deny or hinder anyone's ability to worship anything or believe anything. If the Government was doing that, indeed it'd be a violation of Seperation of Church and State.

But a group of children at a high school hosting a Christian club is not, and I repeat, is NOT threatening to atheists religious freedom and does not violate the seperation cause.

[Draica]

1. Do you have proof/evidence for the first assertion?!

Well, it says "under God." Which specifies a god... you know, a religious god? Of religion? And not of non-religion?

Are you seriously having trouble understanding this?

That's not evidence, that's your individual interpitation that comes from personal bias.

[The New Sea Territory]

Thereby making it prejudiced against people with no religion, even if we're thick enough to accept the plainly ludicrous idea that "God" is not referring to the Christian God specifically.

Atheists still have the freedom to worship as they chose, believe as they choose and do as they choose. No one's stopping them, there may be social stigma but that's not the topic, is it?

The Government cannot deny or hinder anyone's ability to worship anything or believe anything. If the Government was doing that, indeed it'd be a violation of Seperation of Church and State.

But a group of children at a high school hosting a Christian club is not, and I repeat, is NOT threatening to atheists religious freedom and does not violate the seperation cause.

You clearly have no understanding of coexistence. You think secularism=religious repression. Secularism is the middle ground. High school students can be Christian and joyous but get religion out of the state.

Then again, I am an anarchist. There is no need for separation of church and state if you get rid of the state.

[Tubbsalot]

Atheists still have the freedom to worship as they chose, believe as they choose and do as they choose.

Those are the only criteria? In that case, "one nation" could be followed up with literally anything, since it wouldn't prevent people from worshipping, believing or doing as they chose.

"One nation under Adolf Hitler, because Jews are the source of all evil." Perfectly acceptable.

[The New Sea Territory]

Complete bullshit. "Under God" recognizes theism and deism over atheism.

Stop trying to continue justifying the Cold War and accept the fact that America isn't always right.

1. Do you have proof/evidence for the first assertion?

2. Are you going to stop making strawmen already? Wow, first post and there are already strawmen!

Stop trying to continue justifying the Cold War and accept the fact that America isn't always right.

Strawman, strawman!

"Under God" recognizes that there is a god, holding to the belief of theism and, in some cases, deism. Thus, they are endorsing theistic religions.

I'm not strawmanning. People defend "under god" as if it is meant to be there for any other reason besides saying "FUCK YOU" to the Soviets.

[Draica]

Atheists still have the freedom to worship as they chose, believe as they choose and do as they choose. No one's stopping them, there may be social stigma but that's not the topic, is it?

The Government cannot deny or hinder anyone's ability to worship anything or believe anything. If the Government was doing that, indeed it'd be a violation of Seperation of Church and State.

But a group of children at a high school hosting a Christian club is not, and I repeat, is NOT threatening to atheists religious freedom and does not violate the seperation cause.

You clearly have no understanding of coexistence. You think secularism=religious repression. Secularism is the middle ground. High school students can be Christian and joyous but get religion out of the state.

Then again, I am an anarchist. There is no need for separation of church and state if you get rid of the state.

I will not debate on your anarchism, we can go to telegram for that. I am debating on the false assertion that "Under God" is religious oppression against non-theists, which is really fallacious in reasoning.

[Tubbsalot]

Well, it says "under God." Which specifies a god... you know, a religious god? Of religion? And not of non-religion?

Are you seriously having trouble understanding this?

That's not evidence, that's your individual interpitation that comes from personal bias.

What interpretation have you developed, exactly, in which "God" does not refer to a religious or spiritual entity?

[The New Sea Territory]

You clearly have no understanding of coexistence. You think secularism=religious repression. Secularism is the middle ground. High school students can be Christian and joyous but get religion out of the state.

Then again, I am an anarchist. There is no need for separation of church and state if you get rid of the state.

I will not debate on your anarchism, we can go to telegram for that. I am debating on the false assertion that "Under God" is religious oppression against non-theists, which is really fallacious in reasoning.

Ok. What if we made you say "There is no God"?

[Ifreann]

The seperation of Church and state is a marvelous thing that was meant to actually protect Religion and religious freedom from being crushed by the Government, while at the same time ensuring Governmental neutrality on religion as a whole.

Having the phrase "God" on there is not the Government setting a official position on Religion. God is a very very broad term and can mean alot of things, however it is generally assosciated with Religion.

As long as Government isn't opressing religious freedom and it's stance doesn't favor any certain religion, seperation of Church and State has not been broken.

Your thoughts on this argument?

When Congress was voting on the law to make "under God" part of the official pledge Haile Selassie I was emperor of Ethiopia. Haile Selassie is worshipped by some Rastas as Jah Rastafari, an incarnation of God the Father, the Second Advent of Christ the Anointed One.

If you want to argue that the US Congress of the 50s wanted to pledge their nation as being under an African emperor then that says all that needs to be said about your argument.

[Draica]

1. Do you have proof/evidence for the first assertion?

2. Are you going to stop making strawmen already? Wow, first post and there are already strawmen!



Strawman, strawman!

"Under God" recognizes that there is a god, holding to the belief of theism and, in some cases, deism. Thus, they are endorsing theistic religions.

I'm not strawmanning. People defend "under god" as if it is meant to be there for any other reason besides saying "FUCK YOU" to the Soviets.

1. The Government still hasn't a single set position on any Religion, it hasn't made any official discrimination based on any Religion either. The state is not interfearing with the religious behaviors of people, either. Thus, it is not a violation, they are not "endorsing" anything(you have no evidence of that as that is your personal interpitation.)

2. Yes, it is a strawman. I never said anything about America and it's broader actions in the cold war, never justified it and certainly never said it was 100% right. That wasn't even part of my initial argument. That's why we call it a strawman.

[Valdrin]

Having the phrase "God" on there is not the Government setting a official position on Religion. God is a very very broad term and can mean alot of things, however it is generally assosciated with Religion.

Exactly, its associated with religion, not atheism. Its shows that the government is supporting religion as a entity, while they should be having a completely neutral view on the subject.

[Ashmoria]

if you capitalize "god" then you are referring to a specific god. there is no pretense that it could be any of a dozen different gods.

[Vozt Yurkova]

Well, it says "under God." Which specifies a god... you know, a religious god? Of religion? And not of non-religion?

Are you seriously having trouble understanding this?

That's not evidence, that's your individual interpitation that comes from personal bias.

No, it's the literal semantic intent of the word God. It'll be in the dictionary if you're interested.

It's not the government's place to push a religious agenda. Atheists pay taxes too.

[Draica]

I will not debate on your anarchism, we can go to telegram for that. I am debating on the false assertion that "Under God" is religious oppression against non-theists, which is really fallacious in reasoning.

Ok. What if we made you say "There is no God"?

That'd be oppression, but this is really a non sequitur because no one's oppressing no one by saying "Under God" in the pledge, neither is the Government.

[Draica]

That's not evidence, that's your individual interpitation that comes from personal bias.

What interpretation have you developed, exactly, in which "God" does not refer to a religious or spiritual entity?

God can mean many things.

godhead(leader of something)

The superior.

The overlord,

Etc. It doesn't always have to mean Religion.

[Valdrin]

Ok. What if we made you say "There is no God"?

That'd be oppression, but this is really a non sequitur because no one's oppressing no one by saying "Under God" in the pledge, neither is the Government.

It shows that the government is supporting the belief in a specific God, instead of being completely neutral on the subject.

[Scholmeria]

America is a christian nation.

[Draica]

That'd be oppression, but this is really a non sequitur because no one's oppressing no one by saying "Under God" in the pledge, neither is the Government.

It shows that the government is supporting the belief in a specific God, instead of being completely neutral on the subject.

Who is the specific God, then? The pledge certainly doesn't mention him/her/it. It says "God," which is an incredibly broad term..