Your Opinion of Political Correctness

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Does that mean we can call white people Occidentals?

Yes. It's archiach now, but not even remotely politically incorrect. Besides, shouldn't a PC fellow like yourself be using "caucasian"? If 'black' is bad, why isn't 'white'?

Wrong.

Oriental is one of many words that derive by honest means from Latin. That yahoo definition ignores the existence of Occidental as a term, which makes the Euro-centric point rather null. Besides, even if it was vaguely based around Europe, that is far from being a racial slur.

Irrelevant. If it's generally seen as a slur by members of the group, then it's a slur. Don't like it? Take it up with Asians.

[Patridam]

Yes. It's archiach now, but not even remotely politically incorrect. Besides, shouldn't a PC fellow like yourself be using "caucasian"? If 'black' is bad, why isn't 'white'?



Oriental is one of many words that derive by honest means from Latin. That yahoo definition ignores the existence of Occidental as a term, which makes the Euro-centric point rather null. Besides, even if it was vaguely based around Europe, that is far from being a racial slur.

Irrelevant. If it's generally seen as a slur by members of the group, then it's a slur. Don't like it? Take it up with Asians.

Prove that a majority of Asians find the term offensive, and I will consider this. However, you might find the occidental liberals are the ones that get so concerned about insulting anyone.

How does one 'take it up' with a racial group spanning several billion people in multiple countries, anyway?

[Blakk Metal]

1. I've also heard calling Europe a continent condemned for similar reasons.
2. Oriental is a much less vague than Asian to describe the people on the eastern side of Asia with straight, low density hair, brown eyes, epicanthic folds, and yellow tinted skin. In the UK, 'Asian' means 'South Asian', which is something completely different.
3. I've heard Orientals use the term.

Thanks for the idea. From now on, I'm using that.

Corrected.

EDUCATION IS SJ LIBERAL BULLSHIT! BAN COLLEGES!

Nope, don't kid yourself Blakk Metal. You're ignorant of even the most basic shit - your state government. Before you talk make sure you understand what you're talking about or don't say anything at all. It just makes you look ignorant and it is REALLY easy to disprove your shit. Burleson also spews bullshit with every post he makes, so I don't understand how the two of you can manage to talk so much bullshit every day.

Also, it is a nice touch you can use a dictionary! Nice job, now, let's examine the law. The U.S. Code, Section 1325 specifies what the crime of Improper Entry by Alien entails:

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection. Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

(c) Marriage fraud Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.

(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

Now, let's look at the SPECIFIC section that deals with immigrants who cross the border and are not caught or people who let their visas expire:

(b) Improper time or place;

civil penalties Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection. Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

Now, let's look at what a civil penalty is:

A civil penalty or civil fine is a financial penalty imposed by a government agency as restitution for wrongdoing. The wrongdoing is typically defined by a codification of legislation, regulations, and decrees. The civil fine is not considered to be a criminal punishment, because it is primarily sought in order to compensate the state for harm done to it, rather than to punish the wrongful conduct. As such, a civil penalty, in itself, will not carry jail time or other legal penalties. For example, if a person were to dump toxic waste in a state park, the state would have the same right to seek to recover the cost of cleaning up the mess as would a private landowner, and to bring the complaint to a court of law, if necessary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_penalty

Civil Penalty refers to a fine assessed for violation of a statute or regulation. It can be fines or surcharges imposed by governmental agencies for enforcing regulations. For example, late payment of taxes could lead to imposition of a civil penalty.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/civil-penalty/

And let's look at the definition of a criminal punishment:

Punishment is the authoritative imposition of an undesirable or unpleasant outcome upon an individual or group by law enforcement, in response to behaviour that an authority deems unacceptable or a violation of some norm. The unpleasant imposition may include a fine, penalty, or confinement, or be the removal or denial of something pleasant or desirable. The individual may be a person, or even an animal. The authority may be either a group or a single person, and punishment may be carried out formally under a system of law or informally in other kinds of social settings such as within a family. Negative consequences that are not authorised or that are administered without a breach of rules are not considered to be punishment as defined here. The study and practice of the punishment of crimes, particularly as it applies to imprisonment, is called penology, or, often in modern texts, corrections; in this context, the punishment process is euphemistically called "correctional process". Research into punishment often includes similar research into prevention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punishment

As such a civil penalty is left for administrative charges of a government body against an individual as opposed to a punishment, which is the undesirable outcome of a crime. Civil Law and Criminal Law are different because Criminal Law has a very distinct code from that of Civil Law. As such a Civil Offense cannot be considered a Criminal Offense, which is what we talk about when we talk about crimes. A civil offense is a crime

While attempting to cross the border is a criminal offense and, if caught, the case is treated as a criminal offense, being here as an undocumented immigrant isn't. But, I don't understand why I bother with your shit. You're just going to ignore this post and assume it never even existed.

When normal people want to refer to an illegal activity, they refer it as a crime. Deal with it. If we went by your definition of a crime, there was no crime in Ancient Rome, since their legal codes did not refer to anything as a 'crime'.

Does that mean we can call white people Occidentals?

Yes. It's archiach now, but not even remotely politically incorrect. Besides, shouldn't a PC fellow like yourself be using "caucasian"? If 'black' is bad, why isn't 'white'?

Caucasian is a terrible term to use for Occidentals, since there is actually a ethnically, geographically, and location called 'Caucasia'.

Yes. It's archiach now, but not even remotely politically incorrect. Besides, shouldn't a PC fellow like yourself be using "caucasian"? If 'black' is bad, why isn't 'white'?



Oriental is one of many words that derive by honest means from Latin. That yahoo definition ignores the existence of Occidental as a term, which makes the Euro-centric point rather null. Besides, even if it was vaguely based around Europe, that is far from being a racial slur.

Irrelevant. If it's generally seen as a slur by members of the group, then it's a slur. Don't like it? Take it up with Asians.

I want to see proof that Asians as group consider it insulting.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

When normal people want to refer to an illegal activity, they refer it as a crime. Deal with it. If we went by your definition of a crime, there was no crime in Ancient Rome, since their legal codes did not refer to anything as a 'crime'.

Sorry, I didn't know you had more weight than legal experts. I will come to you next time I have a legal question, because clearly you seem to know more than lawyers who have spent years dealing with the law do.

[Blakk Metal]

When normal people want to refer to an illegal activity, they refer it as a crime. Deal with it. If we went by your definition of a crime, there was no crime in Ancient Rome, since their legal codes did not refer to anything as a 'crime'.

Sorry, I didn't know you had more weight than legal experts. I will come to you next time I have a legal question, because clearly you seem to know more than lawyers who have spent years dealing with the law do.

This is not court, we aren't using legal terms, we're using colloquial terms.

[United Dependencies]

Seriously though, seconded. This right here.

I read that and I just wanna say, the first two paragraphs were a rant how it's hard to be a non-christian liberal.

It's simply the context in which that explanation lives.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Sorry, I didn't know you had more weight than legal experts. I will come to you next time I have a legal question, because clearly you seem to know more than lawyers who have spent years dealing with the law do.

This is not court, we aren't using legal terms, we're using colloquial terms.

When you are dealing with legal terms it helps to know what they are and not pull shit out of your ass because hey, someone may know more than you do.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Irrelevant. If it's generally seen as a slur by members of the group, then it's a slur. Don't like it? Take it up with Asians.

Prove that a majority of Asians find the term offensive, and I will consider this. However, you might find the occidental liberals are the ones that get so concerned about insulting anyone.

How does one 'take it up' with a racial group spanning several billion people in multiple countries, anyway?

Don't know. Not my problem. I can't find a poll on the issue, so instead, I'm going to leave you using the term "Oriental", and let the chips fall where they may.

[Blakk Metal]

This is not court, we aren't using legal terms, we're using colloquial terms.

When you are dealing with legal terms it helps to know what they are and not pull shit out of your ass because hey, someone may know more than you do.

Would you act that way if somebody referred to the Netherlands as 'Holland'?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

When you are dealing with legal terms it helps to know what they are and not pull shit out of your ass because hey, someone may know more than you do.

Would you act that way if somebody referred to the Netherlands as 'Holland'?

If someone refers to the Netherlands as Holland I would more than likely correct them, yes. Mostly because the Netherlands is the proper way of saying it, while Holland, while historically valid, is less proper to use in certain contexts and it can even be insulting for other Dutch people who are not from the region of Holland.

[Ifreann]

Having a disabled child is such a terrible misfortune that we make laws to prevent it. Love it. Five-star bigotry.

I'm not talking about disabilities... Im talking about the fact that they would be the result of incest.

I'm sure they'd have a much easier time of things if you could see your way to not calling them the spawn of freaks.

---

What makes you believe that "Ivory tower liberal professors" were the ones who decided that "Nip" and "Oriental" were slurs, and not members of the Japanese and larger Asian communities?

'Oriental' has never been a slur, and 'nip' is not a word.

Political Correctness goal is NOT to deride you for thinking differently. You CAN, and should think differently. What PC is, what it has always been, is a way of saying "don't be a dipshit and understand other people don't think you're that special that you get to use whatever words you want" because words have meaning and that meaning can be offensive to someone, somewhere.

For instance, is negro a racial slur? Yes. Is it wrong to be in Huckleberry Finn or even to know it for a literature class? No. Is it wrong to talk about black people as "those God damned negroes"? Yes. THAT'S what political correctness IS, the fact that you can understand what words mean and to think before you talk. It IS NOT a method of oppression.

But the fact you think it is is rather laughable.

Political correctness ruins meaning for political purposes. For example, political correctness forces people to use the word 'Roma' to refer to Gypsies, because 'Gypsy' supposed was coined based the assumption that the Gypsies are from Egypt. However, 'Gypsy' does not imply that Gypsies are from Egypt, whereas the word 'Roma' implies that Romanians are Roma.

No it doesn't. Ignorant people might think that, but they're just wrong.

[Patridam]

Prove that a majority of Asians find the term offensive, and I will consider this. However, you might find the occidental liberals are the ones that get so concerned about insulting anyone.

How does one 'take it up' with a racial group spanning several billion people in multiple countries, anyway?

Don't know. Not my problem. I can't find a poll on the issue, so instead, I'm going to leave you using the term "Oriental", and let the chips fall where they may.

You know why you can't find a poll? The recognition of words like oriental to be non-PC was by professors and SJWs (any most likely white ones), not by Orientals themselves.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Don't know. Not my problem. I can't find a poll on the issue, so instead, I'm going to leave you using the term "Oriental", and let the chips fall where they may.

You know why you can't find a poll? The recognition of words like oriental to be non-PC was by professors and SJWs (any most likely white ones), not by Orientals themselves.

When did this start? Can you link me to the social justice workers and professors who came up with this? See, I learned it back in the mid-90s when an Asian girlfriend at the time corrected me, so I'd always been under the assumption that it was people from the Asian continent who initiated the change. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd be happy to check it out.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

You know why you can't find a poll? The recognition of words like oriental to be non-PC was by professors and SJWs (any most likely white ones), not by Orientals themselves.

When did this start? Can you link me to the social justice workers and professors who came up with this? See, I learned it back in the mid-90s when an Asian girlfriend at the time corrected me, so I'd always been under the assumption that it was people from the Asian continent who initiated the change. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd be happy to check it out.

I dunno, I've always thought "Asian" was proper or just mention their nationality.

It really pisses me off as someone from El Salvador that other people go "south the border" or "Mexico" to refer to the entire Latin American region without actually bothering to learn some geography.

[Lleu llaw Gyffes]

I'm not talking about disabilities... Im talking about the fact that they would be the result of incest.

I'm sure they'd have a much easier time of things if you could see your way to not calling them the spawn of freaks.

---

'Oriental' has never been a slur, and 'nip' is not a word.

Political correctness ruins meaning for political purposes. For example, political correctness forces people to use the word 'Roma' to refer to Gypsies, because 'Gypsy' supposed was coined based the assumption that the Gypsies are from Egypt. However, 'Gypsy' does not imply that Gypsies are from Egypt, whereas the word 'Roma' implies that Romanians are Roma.

No it doesn't. Ignorant people might think that, but they're just wrong.

That is the whole point of PC. They invent new words. And as soon as us Peasants have learnt the new words, PCers invent new words. Then us Peasants learn the next new words and PCers invent even newer words. We Peasants are verboten to know the current word because as soon as we learn it, PCers change it.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm sure they'd have a much easier time of things if you could see your way to not calling them the spawn of freaks.

---

No it doesn't. Ignorant people might think that, but they're just wrong.

That is the whole point of PC. They invent new words. And as soon as us Peasants have learnt the new words, PCers invent new words. Then us Peasants learn the next new words and PCers invent even newer words. We Peasants are verboten to know the current word because as soon as we learn it, PCers change it.

Look, I get you're all into being "anti-PC" and whatnot, but I'm not sure I can take seriously the same guy who just said there was a Zionist conspiracy in another thread.

[Ifreann]

I'm sure they'd have a much easier time of things if you could see your way to not calling them the spawn of freaks.

---

No it doesn't. Ignorant people might think that, but they're just wrong.

That is the whole point of PC. They invent new words. And as soon as us Peasants have learnt the new words, PCers invent new words. Then us Peasants learn the next new words and PCers invent even newer words. We Peasants are verboten to know the current word because as soon as we learn it, PCers change it.

This is completely false. And you're using "verboten" wrong. And "PCer" just sounds stupid. And "peasants" is not a proper noun.

[Lleu llaw Gyffes]

That is the whole point of PC. They invent new words. And as soon as us Peasants have learnt the new words, PCers invent new words. Then us Peasants learn the next new words and PCers invent even newer words. We Peasants are verboten to know the current word because as soon as we learn it, PCers change it.

This is completely false. And you're using "verboten" wrong. And "PCer" just sounds stupid. And "peasants" is not a proper noun.

Indeed. From PC point of view only Aristocrats and Priests are real people; us peasants are scum and monkeys.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

This is completely false. And you're using "verboten" wrong. And "PCer" just sounds stupid. And "peasants" is not a proper noun.

Indeed. From PC point of view only Aristocrats and Priests are real people; us peasants are scum and monkeys.

Before I respond to this, let me just make sure that you're serious when you say these things.

[The Fascist American Empire]

1. People will find a way to be offended by something.
2.If we really want a colour-blind, sexism free, religiously tolerant (oh no! not that!) society, then political correctness isn't even necessary.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

1. People will find a way to be offended by something.
2.If we really want a colour-blind, sexism free, religiously tolerant (oh no! not that!) society, then political correctness isn't even necessary.

Are you saying that if we stop talking about it, then it'll somehow magically go away?

[Ifreann]

This is completely false. And you're using "verboten" wrong. And "PCer" just sounds stupid. And "peasants" is not a proper noun.

Indeed. From PC point of view only Aristocrats and Priests are real people; us peasants are scum and monkeys.

Again, false on all counts.

[The Fascist American Empire]

1. People will find a way to be offended by something.
2.If we really want a colour-blind, sexism free, religiously tolerant (oh no! not that!) society, then political correctness isn't even necessary.

Are you saying that if we stop talking about it, then it'll somehow magically go away?

People (in America at least) have an attention span that could rival a hamster's. So yeah, eventuality, if we just don't bother with "proper" labels like "African American," for example, we'll just stop seeing them as different. One could argue that political correctness is a form of oppression by focusing on how group X is different from groups A, B, Q, Z, and T. Allow me to continue using "African American" as an example; why are they not just "Americans?" Why must they be "African Americans?" Unless they personally came from Sub-Saharan Africa to immigrate into the United States, they are not African. They are American.

True, there is nothing wrong in taking pride in your family origins, "Scottish and Proud!" or "Norwegian and Proud!" or "Korean and Proud!" or "Nicaraguan and Proud!" would be perfectly normal statements to describe oneself. But all said and done, you were born in America, you live in America, you speak American English, you are, by definition, American. No special labels required, unless you want the more formal "United States Citizen/Inhabitant."

[Ifreann]

Are you saying that if we stop talking about it, then it'll somehow magically go away?

People (in America at least) have an attention span that could rival a hamster's. So yeah, eventuality, if we just don't bother with "proper" labels like "African American," for example, we'll just stop seeing them as different.

Because when you use improper labels like "spear chucker" or "porch monkey", people don't seem different at all.

One could argue that political correctness is a form of oppression by focusing on how group X is different from groups A, B, Q, Z, and T.

And if one did such a thing, one would be talking complete and utter shite.

[The Fascist American Empire]

People (in America at least) have an attention span that could rival a hamster's. So yeah, eventuality, if we just don't bother with "proper" labels like "African American," for example, we'll just stop seeing them as different.

Because when you use improper labels like "spear chucker" or "porch monkey", people don't seem different at all.

One could argue that political correctness is a form of oppression by focusing on how group X is different from groups A, B, Q, Z, and T.

And if one did such a thing, one would be talking complete and utter shite.

Did you even read the entire post?
Of course derogatory, slanderous names are wrong, but here an idea, one that has never occurred in the entire existence of the left:

Why not just call them: "Them," "People," "Americans?"