Because those signs equal life. Are you okay with ending a life to pursue a life of selfish desire?
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by Deutsches Heilige Land » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:56 am
by Othelos » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:56 am
Shilya wrote:Othelos wrote:False equivalency. Pregnancy is not guaranteed from having sex.
Neither is death if the bridge isn't too high.I would consider it a problem if a country had restrictions on bodily sovereignty.
That's one way of putting it. Another way of putting it is that it permits a high amount of bodily sovereignty. As in, that of the fetus. You had sex and created a new life that way. Now you're responsible for it.
It's not my stance, but one that I can understand. And none of this comes as a surprise. If you live in a country where you can't have an abortion and don't want pregnancy, don't have unprotected sex. If protected sex is still too large of a risk for you, don't have sex. If you take the risk and lose, deal with the consequences.
by Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:57 am
Deutsches Heilige Land wrote:Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:Ah, yes. Everyone who never wants kids is now banned from sex for life. Also, if you want kids at 32, but you're married at 22, you must wear a chastity belt. Government sanctioned.
No, that's not my point. My point is you should stay away from that behavior until you're able to care for a potential child.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:57 am
Othelos wrote:Jelarais wrote:It is painful, disorienting, and unpleasant in the extreme. It is also temporary, and no justification for ending a life unless it places the life of the mother in danger. And I try to avoid killing anything whenever I can.
Wait, so if you got pregnant, but didn't want to have to go through birth or pregnancy & everything associated, you wouldn't have a problem with it, because 'it's only temporary'?
And, actually, the mother has a right to bodily sovereignty. Since the fetus is biologically dependent on the mother, she has to consent to carrying the fetus. If she doesn't consent, she can, and will try to remove the fetus, whether it's legal or not.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Volnus (Ancient) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:57 am
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:58 am
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Apparatchikstan » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:58 am
by Deutsches Heilige Land » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:59 am
by Jelarais » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:59 am
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Othelos wrote:Wait, so if you got pregnant, but didn't want to have to go through birth or pregnancy & everything associated, you wouldn't have a problem with it, because 'it's only temporary'?
And, actually, the mother has a right to bodily sovereignty. Since the fetus is biologically dependent on the mother, she has to consent to carrying the fetus. If she doesn't consent, she can, and will try to remove the fetus, whether it's legal or not.
I wonder if he knows that a pregnancy has lasting effects on a woman. It's not just the 9 months' gestation. Receding gums, reduction of life span, heart problems, allergies that surface while pregnant and stick after child birth, epistomies, early onset of osteoporosis, early signs of diabetes.. all very real side-effects that are or can be long-term.
by The Flood » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:59 am
It's exactly the same as abortion.
by Othelos » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:59 am
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:00 am
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Shilya » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:00 am
Othelos wrote:Shilya wrote:Neither is death if the bridge isn't too high.
That's one way of putting it. Another way of putting it is that it permits a high amount of bodily sovereignty. As in, that of the fetus. You had sex and created a new life that way. Now you're responsible for it.
It's not my stance, but one that I can understand. And none of this comes as a surprise. If you live in a country where you can't have an abortion and don't want pregnancy, don't have unprotected sex. If protected sex is still too large of a risk for you, don't have sex. If you take the risk and lose, deal with the consequences.
Many women will do so through unsafe abortions, which could result in death, or permanent damage.
by Stagnant Axon Terminal » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:01 am
Jelarais wrote:Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:I hope you can justify my suicide, too, because that's what would happen. And the hundreds of thousands of women who die horrific, painful deaths from gutting themselves trying to have an abortion at home. And the millions that suffer irreparable damage to their organs. And the millions who end up in the hospital.
But hey. At least you got the joy of forcing a woman to endure the worst 9 months of her life so that she can shove more kids into a shithole of an orphanage.
I am attempting to discuss this without passion, but you seem intent on attempting to make this an argument rather than a discussion.
At any rate, half of the argument you presented was dependent on the premise that I want to make abortion illegal, thereby forcing women who want to have an abortion to try to attempt one without the assistance of medical professionals. Your premise is flawed. I simply believe that it is ethically reprehensible to have an abortion, and that there are many alternatives that should be explored--the first of which is practicing safe sex--before abortion should even be considered an option.
As far as the orphanage situation goes, I am also an advocate of the U.S. government doing a major rehaul of the foster care and orphanage system that is currently in use. I do not believe that the current system is functional, and many things need to be fixed. However, the reprehensible conditions of the foster care system do not justify the ending of a life, either.
Nanatsu No Tsuki wrote:the fetus will never eat cake if you abort it
Cu Math wrote:Axon is like a bear with a PH.D. She debates at first, then eats your face.
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:THE MAN'S PENIS HAS LEFT THE VAGINA. IT'S THE UTERUS'S TURN TO SHINE.
by Deutsches Heilige Land » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:01 am
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Deutsches Heilige Land wrote:No, that's not my point. My point is you should stay away from that behavior until you're able to care for a potential child.
Yeah no, that's just stupid. If me and my girlfriend want to have sex just to have sex we're going to. We aren't planning on having a child anytime soon and that shouldn't stop us from having sex.
by Stagnant Axon Terminal » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:01 am
Nanatsu No Tsuki wrote:the fetus will never eat cake if you abort it
Cu Math wrote:Axon is like a bear with a PH.D. She debates at first, then eats your face.
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:THE MAN'S PENIS HAS LEFT THE VAGINA. IT'S THE UTERUS'S TURN TO SHINE.
by Othelos » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:01 am
Apparatchikstan wrote:Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:First of all, Shmi.
And yes, a woman finds that she is pregnant. She is not omnipotent and just knows, it is something she has to figure the fuck out.
But you do possess enough self-awareness to realize and remember that you might have done something to encourage the condition?
Let me take a moment to clarify something. If sex is forced on you, whether by a stranger, boyfriend gone wrong, or beligerant husband, whatever, then by all means deal with that situation as you see fit. But if you willingly participated in an act that by evolution's design has consequences that reach far past the moment, you do not have my sympathy.
by Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:02 am
Deutsches Heilige Land wrote:Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Yeah no, that's just stupid. If me and my girlfriend want to have sex just to have sex we're going to. We aren't planning on having a child anytime soon and that shouldn't stop us from having sex.
No of course not, you'll just do things like everyone else and one day join the massive statistic of failed marriages.
People create their own problems.
Guess what, because We did things the right way We have no problems.
by The Flood » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:02 am
It's literally the opposite of stupid.
Why?If me and my girlfriend want to have sex just to have sex we're going to.
It should. To act otherwise is incredibly irresponsible.We aren't planning on having a child anytime soon and that shouldn't stop us from having sex.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:02 am
Jelarais wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I wonder if he knows that a pregnancy has lasting effects on a woman. It's not just the 9 months' gestation. Receding gums, reduction of life span, heart problems, allergies that surface while pregnant and stick after child birth, epistomies, early onset of osteoporosis, early signs of diabetes.. all very real side-effects that are or can be long-term.
All true. Still not a justification for ending a life, especially one that will grow into a fully sentient being.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Stagnant Axon Terminal » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:03 am
Apparatchikstan wrote:Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:First of all, Shmi.
And yes, a woman finds that she is pregnant. She is not omnipotent and just knows, it is something she has to figure the fuck out.
But you do possess enough self-awareness to realize and remember that you might have done something to encourage the condition?
Let me take a moment to clarify something. If sex is forced on you, whether by a stranger, boyfriend gone wrong, or beligerant husband, whatever, then by all means deal with that situation as you see fit. But if you willingly participated in an act that by evolution's design has consequences that reach far past the moment, you do not have my sympathy.
Nanatsu No Tsuki wrote:the fetus will never eat cake if you abort it
Cu Math wrote:Axon is like a bear with a PH.D. She debates at first, then eats your face.
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:THE MAN'S PENIS HAS LEFT THE VAGINA. IT'S THE UTERUS'S TURN TO SHINE.
by Deutsches Heilige Land » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:03 am
by Stagnant Axon Terminal » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:03 am
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Deutsches Heilige Land wrote:No of course not, you'll just do things like everyone else and one day join the massive statistic of failed marriages.
People create their own problems.
Guess what, because We did things the right way We have no problems.
So having pre-marital sex means you'll have a failed marriage? I'm gonna guess you don't have a source to back up this bullshit?
Nanatsu No Tsuki wrote:the fetus will never eat cake if you abort it
Cu Math wrote:Axon is like a bear with a PH.D. She debates at first, then eats your face.
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:THE MAN'S PENIS HAS LEFT THE VAGINA. IT'S THE UTERUS'S TURN TO SHINE.
by Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:04 am
The Flood wrote:It's literally the opposite of stupid.
Why?
It should. To act otherwise is incredibly irresponsible.
by Stagnant Axon Terminal » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:04 am
Deutsches Heilige Land wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
So's the woman's. She too is a life. Why is the fetus's life more important than the woman's?
Have you ever tried talking to a fetus? Or asking a newborn a question?
No, because they cannot communicate, and if that life wishes to live then it has a right to life, and no one has a right over it.
Nanatsu No Tsuki wrote:the fetus will never eat cake if you abort it
Cu Math wrote:Axon is like a bear with a PH.D. She debates at first, then eats your face.
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:THE MAN'S PENIS HAS LEFT THE VAGINA. IT'S THE UTERUS'S TURN TO SHINE.
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